Don't get me wrong; I think Annie Lennox is great. Very talented.

[Warren DeMontague]

And unlike some other, er, performers, it would be hard to argue that she was a one hit wonder (covering someone else's tune, no less) who puttered along for decades more on her reputation as someone who could generate controversy, than anything else.

So I think Annie Lennox is great. Good God, the tune she did for LOTR? Amazing. What a voice.

Okay. So, that said--- on the topic of Miley Cyrus? Let's be real. I mean, the song which first catapulted the Eurythmics into the spotlight?

What was that, if not a paean to S&M?

I'm just not sure she's in any position to talk.

[Revanchist]

1. Well according to Annie Lennox:

I don’t know how well we knew that at the time, but certainly that’s where we were poised. There are all kinds of sub-texts, when you look at ‘Sweet Dreams’, what it refers to and the planet and the natural world and taking the cow and having this creature juxtaposed within this … on the one hand it’s like nature and on the other hand it’s industry and the other hand it’s entertainment. ‘Sweet Dreams’ is like a mantra. ‘Sweet Dreams’ is not really like a normal song. It’s a statement about humanity and the human condition and it’s just saying we’re all in this dilemma, we’re born and we exist and we have our motivation which will take you here or it will take you there and everybody’s looking for something. That is a truth. It’s something that will last for ever.

http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/videos/a/annie-lennox-creative-process/

Do I think Annie is sexy in that video? Yeah, I do, but she doesn't need to shove it in our face, her confidence and poise makes her even sexier to me than Miley.

[Warren DeMontague]

2. And yet, that same song could be considered to be a 3rd wave, porn-ological, "choosy-choice" anthem

Hell, just that one line about who am I to disagree completely relinquishes the notion and responsibility of critical cultural commentary and the right and responsibility for the moral betters to get up-and-in-yer-face to peoples' (so-called ugh ugh eyeroll) personal choice and bizness, amirite?

No, seriously, I'm just not sure what anyone thinks they're going to accomplish with this tidal wave of allegedly well-meaning "concern for" Miley Cyrus (and, in the case of Sinead O'Connor, "concern" that turned immediately on a fucking dime into how dare you hufflepuff-ery)

.... I don't think Miley Cyrus is all that "sexy" in her recent productions, but she's clearly doing what she wants and the more that pisses off the folks who are approximately my age demographic, the MORE popular she's going to get with the people who actually set music trends.

People just don't fucking get it. It's the exact same script that went down with Elvis. Hell, it went down with Socrates. "these kids today!!! aarrgle blarg". Same shit, different... well, always.

[ElboRuum]

3. Everyone who considers themselves a vanguard in their time...

...thinks everyone it trying to undermine what they "did" after their time is up.

If anything, they expanded the notion of sexy to include themselves, which does little to curtail sexy in general.

[Warren DeMontague]

4. Holy fuck, I guess this thread hit a nerve, huh?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

5. Complete with "limp dick" jokes

Gotta love the hypocrisy.

[Warren DeMontague]

6. Oh, however shall I survive.

[ElboRuum]

8. Am I to assume that there is something afoot... elsewhere?

I have a feeling the joke's being lost on me.

[Warren DeMontague]

9. Oh, just yet another case of three posts in TMG causing a 50 post extravaganza, elsewhere.

not to mention the post-modern meta-silliness of a group wondering why it's within the SOP of one group to talk about another group on DU, while in the midst of doing exactly that.

[ElboRuum]

11. Now I understand Mary Poppins and her near perpetual feigned exasperation...

And I quote...

"Oh well, if we must... we must".

Link please.

[Warren DeMontague]

14. How can one be a sexless, calcified old impotent coot AND a pathological lust-filled phallopressor

of Patriarchal doom at the same time?

It boggles ze mind.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

16. My guess is they think we're supposed to get upset by it

It would be somewhat amusing and just good old fashion ribbing if they didn't spend the other 95% of their time here running around to every forum claiming this joke and that insult are sexist and we need to make a societal change towards that type of behavior. Here it just shows they are not "above it all" in the least.

[Warren DeMontague]

17. If I whang-whang-whanged on the alert button the way some people here do

I'd need a whole bottle of alleve for my poor arthritic old finger about now.

[ElboRuum]

7. Truthfully...

I think it's just another round of "the kids aren't alright."

And Sinead's rantism is expected. She shaved her head and dressed in what amounts to burlap sacks because 'I want people to focus on my music, not my beauty'. In addition to being a touch arrogant, that statement implies a coiffed radiance that would sear eyeballs and cause brains to lock up from overload. But okay, if it'll help me to focus on the music then fine. Only, it was a two album span between me knowing who the hell she was and her ripping up a picture of the pope on SNL and disappearing from view. Last I heard before this she was heavy into religion, just not the Popey kind. Her entire career has been a drawn out paean to the fact that she's angry about everything and nothing, and when that's in the music, it's phenomenal. But when it isn't... well... we're wondering what the number is for Bellevue hospital.

For her to take a "the kids aren't alright" view of Miley Cyrus is to ignore the fact that we've been wondering if SHE'S alright for much, much longer.

[Warren DeMontague]

10. Exactly. Last I head from Sinead O'Connor, again, she was ripping up the picture of the Pope.

Now, I've never been a fan of the pope, but I don't think that act got her the reaction she wanted.

Usually when musicians - think Springsteen, Stipe, The Dixie Chicks- take outspoken political or cultural stands, it helps if they have the talent and a body of work to back it up. In the case of those folks, they do.

I can think of exactly one song by Sinead O'Connor, and as I mentioned it was a cover, apparently.

[ElboRuum]

12. I assume you mean this one...

However, I don't think this is a cover. It was written by Prince, originally intended for someone else... one of his proteges. Sinead ended up with it instead.

You may also recall The Emperor's New Clothes, this from the same album.

And she had one hit prior to this, Mandinka...

[Warren DeMontague]

13. Yes. I remember those tunes. Not exactly heavyweight-politcal stuff, even for the 80s. Fairly fluffy

People forget- or don't know- there were a lot of artists making powerful political statements through their music back then.

Sinead O'Connor wasn't, to my mind, exactly one of them.

[ElboRuum]

18. True.

But then R.E.M wrote Stand. Not exactly the deepest of concepts, but damn, it was a catchy little tune. 10,000 Maniacs wrote Like the Weather and These are Days. Everyone took a dip in the pop pool back then, even if it was just a prelude to sipping three fingers of bourbon at a jazz club.

The 80's were not notorious for political statements of any kind of nature, heavy-handed or otherwise. If your song made it onto the pop charts, it was probably pretty sanitary, cleansed of any real political or philosophical import. To be fair, though, that was the charm of the 80's, the eclecticism. You could get into it deep with 10,000 Maniacs, R.E.M, the Smiths, the Cure, and then throw on a Bangles album in a stunningly unironic way. Sure, the record industry pushed the pop pretty hard and MTV drove the style and the culture, but there seemed to be something for every taste, no one intentionally left out.

To be fair, Sinead's other stuff tends to be more "statement oriented" than the songs that made the charts, but again, it is the political as seen through the eyes of a 20 something still apparently trying to a handle on her own feelings and thoughts. Perhaps with a bit more life experience, taking a bit of time refining her message, she could have actually gotten around to the kind of profundity she mistakenly thought she was achieving through tearing up a picture of the Pope. If she'd given it more of a chance, I am certain that the 90's alt-indie environment would have seen her well received.

I look at her bowing out of music due to her missteps and the poor way they were received as a bit sad. She had a singularly unique and powerful voice, and clearly had something brewing in her to say, even if her failed attempts spoke more to her youth and inexperience in their expression.

[Warren DeMontague]

20. Funny, I hear "These Are Days" and I remember Bill Clinton in 1992.

Like, we'd had 12 years of Reagan-Bush, and all of a sudden there was this optimism... there was a Democrat who might actually WIN.

I realize, though, it's not superficially the most political song. Stand- I had a flash some time in 1989 while listening to that song that it was BRILLIANT because it was a genius song--- in part by masquerading as a really stupid one.

Drugs may have been involved.

But say what you will about R.E.M., or Natalie Merchant, they kept at it and they have a diverse body of work to show for it. I can't spend a ton of time criticizing S O'C's work, but I do feel her current thing with Miley smacks of opportunism. And once it became clear that her "concern" wasn't appreciated, she should have backed off and not "doubled down" yargle bargle.

JMHO.

[opiate69]

22. Another great "deep" 80s artist... Tracy Chapman

http://m.

Good stuff, that.

[Warren DeMontague]

23. Yeah, Tracy Chapman is great.

[Warren DeMontague]

15. "some of them want to abuse you, some of them want to be abused" is a critique of Capitalism?

...yeah, right.

Sort of like when Rick James wrote that excellent dissertation on Keynsean economics and Dialectical Materialism entitled "Super Freak".

[ElboRuum]

19. See, now you're just being mean...

...clearly, the message of Super Freak isn't even a passing analysis of Keynes, rather a full, unabashed assault on the MIC, the Randian dialectic as it applies to the economic correctness of altruistic thought, and a scathing rip on Nixon for taking us fully off the gold standard.

Or, she could just be "super freaking... ouuuut." Naah, too simple. There's genius in them thar lyrics. Genius, I say!!!

[Warren DeMontague]

21. Here, he explains that even though the Fed is scaling back its bond-buying program,

it will never let your spirits down. Once you get it off the street.