Oh, look! Video footage of Ven. GNB shooting tear gas into homes without provocation!

[Marksman_91]

But it doesn't matter, right? I'm sure all those places are filled with filthy rich, right-wing fascists, so that makes it totally ok.

[rdharma]

1. Re-privatise the RW oligarchs' control of Venezuela's oil and everything will be alright!

Makes perfect sense to me!

[Marksman_91]

2. Oh, look, someone who praises repression against innocents by government military! n/t

[rdharma]

5. Nice try! You think the RW coup will be successful? nt

[Marksman_91]

6. lol, only you seem to think the coup will actually come from the RW n/t

[rdharma]

11. Yes..... but please try to spin it otherwise.......

[sabrina 1]

15. The leader of the 'opposition' IS a Right Wing Oligarch, so where else would it come

from?? Surely you knew that?

[Marksman_91]

16. I would assume from another faction within the military that knows Maduro is screwing up big time

I wouldn't be surprised if it was instigated by Diosdado himself. The guy is smart enough to know that Maduro is an incompetent tool, and he was also big buddies with Hugo. My guess is that he's waiting for the country to go downhill so bad that he can justify ousting NM, and new elections would be called by the government to try to replace him with someone with at least half a brain.

[Bacchus4.0]

31. from within chavismo or the the chavista military, duh!!

Hello, the opposition has student protesters, chavista military and their paramilitaries have the weapons and are in power. The Honduran overthrow of Zelaya was done with complete participation of Zelaya's own party. Ditto for Lugo's impeachment in Paraguay.

[joshcryer]

20. No comment on GNB shooting tear gas into peoples apartments?

[SolutionisSolidarity]

3. I don't know what you are trying to prove. You can't see what they are shooting at, or why.

The only thing that is clear is that they are firing tear gas. Damning stuff.

Edit: I'm sure you'll be calling for Obama to resign after reading this article. There's even good quality video, and you can see where the tear gas is being fired and where the canisters are landing.

[link:http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/26/us/occupy-wall-steet/|

[Marksman_91]

4. For what reason then would they be shooting at those buildings?

I don't see them being shot at or anything. Seems a tad harsh to me to shoot tear gas in residential complexes.

Here are some GNB acting like vandals

[rdharma]

7. Oh, don't make me laugh! I've seen tear gas launched for lesser reasons in the US! nt

[Marksman_91]

9. Still trying to justify all of this because it happens in the US?

You're REALLY not good at debating, are you?

[Marksman_91]

10. Here's some GNB beating up a guy for no reason and leaving him on the street

[SolutionisSolidarity]

12. The one obvious reason you might do that is if you are taking fire from them,

and you don't have good anti-sniper support. But then, again I'm going to have to take your word on the actual target of those gas canisters, as it's not clear in the video.

And I'm not going to get my fainting chair for petty vandalism from soldiers in the middle of pitched combat with a rioting horde. The videos I keep seeing are always full of things on fire - and I'm pretty sure it isn't the army setting those. Occupiers didn't commit arson and pull out cobblestones to turn into projectiles. That is not a legitimate form of protest.

[Marksman_91]

13. Here's a compilation of 3 videos

One of those, I already posted, but just in case it wasn't clear enough

And hey, at least I've got some evidence to support my claims. All you and the rest of the fanatics in this forum seem to have are articles from propaganda sites.

[SolutionisSolidarity]

17. Sure.

You'll have to understand that what's happening in Venezuela is an act endorsed by our government and media. To find videos that show the opposition misbehaving, I'll have to go to outlets that are not aligned to the West.

http://rt.com/news/venezuela-riots-kill-students-827/

See the cars turned over? See the masked kids hurling large rocks? See the fires? Would our government tolerate this?

[joshcryer]

21. These are typical barricade tactics.

You'd see that in say, Oaxaca. We would not denounce it in Oaxaca. Only because we "perceive" the "enemy" is "right wing." If the people we support are "perceived" as "left wing" then their oppression is A-OK.

[SolutionisSolidarity]

22. At what point am I allowed to start hurling stones at riot police?

I just want to be sure the next time I'm at a rally. Because every other time I've gone, it's been with the understanding that there isn't a good time to do that. I guess that's why Occupy failed.

And I'd really like if you answered the question: would our government tolerate this?

[joshcryer]

23. When they start kettling or abusing you.

It will be illegal naturally. But if you give one shit about your comrades you would act in a way to support them.

There is a false meme that Occupy failed due to bloc tactics, no, Occupy failed because those committing bloc tactics that kept it going for months and kept the police at bay were maligned and ostracized. The camps were completely razed once the people let down their guard and those who were defending them were pushed aside and lost interest because they were de-humanized by their own group.

At what point are "riot police" justified? Because some kids put up a barricade? Because they burn a few vehicles? I suppose.

But if I was the leader of a country that had high poverty, high inflation, and high crime, I would go down there and tell them I'm listening to their grievances, and that they can keep their barricade, so long as they are kind enough to let people who live there through. It's not my business, it's the business of the local townsfolk. And that's how it was handled in Oaxaca, until the Mexican government sent in their stormtroopers and squashed the student movement led by teachers.



Regarding your edit, no, our government would not tolerate this. But should we use our government as a shining example as to how to handle people who are upset with the government? When the developed world riots, it's over soccer, or hockey, or football or something ridiculous. When the developing world riots it's over actual issues (usually).

[Common Sense Party]

18. Looks like a workers' paradise. I'd love to live in that utopia.

The government has the Hell's Angels to do all their dirty work, beat up and kill those who speak out.

Sounds blissful.

[Judi Lynn]

24. The right-wingers have been big fans of "guarimba" (violent "protests") for years.

What they are protesting is the fact the masses voted to change the kind of Presidents they are getting, most especially after "El Caracazo" massacre in 1989. They want decent people, human beings, to run the country. They already saw what the right-winger oligarchs did, and will always do.

[ChangoLoa]

25. All that fire they've been taking and there's not even one wounded by a fire weapon?

Those cops are standing there like "sitting ducks" in a big compact group and not even one got shot by the supposed "snipers"?

You do realize that after more than ten days of insurrection not even one cop has been killed or wounded by a bullet.

So, what's your conclusion? A problem with the sniper rifles' aims?




"Fuck! The sniper rifles are useless! We got screwed by USAID again! Sieg heil!"

[SolutionisSolidarity]

27. You don't need a sniper rifle to employ sniper tactics.

You can rain stones down from windows and rooftops, or take potshots with pistols that are unlikely to actually hit anyone from a distance. And I'd like a source for your claim that no officers have been shot, as that directly contradicts what I've seen elsewhere.

[springchick]

28. If it directly contradicts what you've seen elsewhere,

then where are the pictures or links to stories?

[SolutionisSolidarity]

29. I didn't bother to post it because you will dismiss the source.

But very well, dismiss away. I haven't seen any reporting breaking down who the casualties are in the Western press; the implication they try to give is that only opposition protesters are getting hurt.

http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/10372

"An armed group also attacked Carabobo's headquarters of the government owned energy company Corpoelec earlier today. A captain of the National Guard (GNB) was hit by a bullet during the incident."

http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/10382

"Attorney General Luisa Ortega Díaz said today that a total of 137 people have been wounded as a result of the violence, of which 37 are members of security forces and 100 are civilians."

[springchick]

30. The dismissing of pictures and stories is coming from

your side of the debate, there's even a couple claiming that the opposition are shooting their own to gin up outrage against the govt.

Although the links you provided are very pro govt., I'll read them and make my own judgement.

[ChangoLoa]

34. The first article is priceless....

Especially when they try to show governor Ameliach as a peaceful guy with his tweet : "I call upon our membership to not fall into confrontation".

They only forget to mention the one where he called his "battle units" to "prepare for a fulminating counter-attack" just before they shot 8 students in Valencia this week... small detail!

Maybe he meant "prepare for the rhetorical counter-attack"... who knows!

[ChangoLoa]

33. venezuelanalysis is the Ven consulate in the US

[SolutionisSolidarity]

35. They are clearly on the side of the Venezuelan government.

And the sources you are reading are clearly on the side of regime change in Venezuela. You trust them, and discount those who disagree. So your opinion is set - Maduro is the enemy and must go. My opinion is set too - Maduro's two recent election victories have never been proven fraudulent, and violence employing protest movements to overthrow democracies are a moral evil. I've seen masked kids throwing stones at police even in Western sources. That was the event that shut down Occupy Oakland if I recall correctly.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/16/us-venezuela-protests-idUSBREA1E0W320140216

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/01/30/10268080-occupy-oakland-400-arrested-after-violent-protest?lite

When will you demand Obama resign?

[ChangoLoa]

36. Not only, it was founded by the Consul's husband.

And "Maduro is the enemy and must go" is not my opinion. You should ask me first.

But my understanding is that his presidential election victory has not been proven fraudulent, because they only tested the part of the electoral transmission (the the electronic votes' count and its recollection by the central entity). This test can't fail, it's a simple addition of electronic votes by a software. The opposition was asking for a different kind of test (check for multiple votes with the same fingerprint, registered dead voters who voted on that day, wrong fingerprint identification eligible for vote). It's not in the law so, logically, they were not given that special pass.

I don't agree with coups. Not in 1992, not in 2002. That's a difference I have with the "chavismo". But I know that civilians don't give coups, only the army does. And if you see the situation today in Venezuela, you understand that a coup would mean to have Diosdado Cabello's mafia in charge instead of Maduro.

[ChangoLoa]

32. You're asking me to prove a negative, it makes no sense.

That's your job: find something real about a cop being shot. I haven't and I'm constantly reading Spanish and English press about Venezuela.

Kindly share your information with the rest of us.

[Marksman_91]

8. Here's some GNB chasing down a civilian and gunning him down from the back in La Candelaria

[SolutionisSolidarity]

14. OK, I've watched the whole video twice.

I think you mean the part about 2 minutes in, which I just watched about 10 times to be sure. Again your video is not the damning piece of evidence you make it out to be. For one, the quality is awful. Everytime he pans the camera, it refocuses and blurs out. I see them chasing him, and I see some of them eventually at him. It's not possible at all to know that he was shot, or if he was armed. You are relying on unsubstantiated descriptions of the video to fill in the details, whose accuracy you cannot verify.

[2naSalit]

19. Get some education

You seem to think Hugo Chavez was a bad guy... I think not and I suspect that what's going on now is a rerun of this:

[Bacchus4.0]

26. chavistas hijos de puta shooting at buildings, its in their nature n/t