Democracy Now: Venezuela Accuses U.S. of Plotting Coup After Deadly Post-Election Protests

[Catherina]

Venezuela Accuses U.S. of Plotting Coup After Deadly Post-Election Protests

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AMY GOODMAN: To talk more about the situation in Venezuela, we’re joined by Democracy Now! video stream by Alex Main in Caracas. Alex is senior associate for international policy at the Center for Economic and Policy Research, served as an election monitor in Venezuela.

Welcome to Democracy Now!, Alex Main. Talk about what has happened so far in these post-election days, with a number of people killed, and the U.S. position on the election.

ALEX MAIN: Yeah, thanks, Amy. So, yeah, as we’ve heard in your news summary just now, it’s been a rocky couple of days, very noisy, as well. The last couple of nights, the Capriles campaign has called on the population to carry out a cacerolazo, which, as you may know, is a banging of pots and pans that comes from some of the protests that harken back to the 1970s in some of the dictatorships in South America. So, they’ve been trying to revive this form of protest here in Venezuela, and they’ve been doing this really for the last 12 years. But the last time we had serious cacerolazos here were—was in the 2002-to-2004 period, where there were constant street demonstrations, there were constant rumors of a coup. There was, of course, a coup in 2002 and so on.

And so there’s been a real atmosphere of tension here, and I think a lot of the country breathed a huge sigh of relief when Capriles called off the march on the CNE tomorrow. Many people saw it as something very similar to the call for a march that occurred back in April 2002, on April 11th, a march that of course turned violent and created a pretext for a military coup.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Alex Main, how have people in Venezuela responded to the U.S. support for the opposition’s call for a recount?

ALEX MAIN: Well, I think, you know, there’s no real surprise. I mean, the U.S. State Department has been pretty consistent in its treatment of Venezuela really nearly since Chávez was elected, certainly since 2001, 2002. There’s, I think, been kind of a constant campaign that the U.S. has quite deliberately fed into to try to undermine the government, to destabilize it. Of course, they did openly support the coup in 2002.

I think one of the big differences we’re seeing with 2002 now in the U.S.'s position is that (inaudible) very, very isolated. It's only the U.S. and the very right-wing government of Spain that have backed the opposition position to call for a full recount and to not recognize Maduro as president until that recount occurs. We’re not seeing that anywhere else in the world at this point.

AMY GOODMAN: Alex, I just want to ask—I mean, this interaction between Matthew Lee of AP and Mr. Ventrell of the State Department was quite astounding. It was Mr. Ventrell of the State Department who said, "It’s ultimately up to the CNE to certify [the] election results, which they’ve done." And so, the reporter said, "So are you going to congratulate Mr. Maduro?" And he said, "We’re not there yet. Our position is that it would engender more confidence in the Venezuelan people if they would do this recount." I think back to 2000 in the United States, a very close race between Bush and Gore. They never had a full recount, that the United States is demanding of Venezuela right now.

ALEX MAIN: No, that’s absolutely correct. And, of course, it was a much slimmer margin back in 2000, and actually, of course, a margin that turned out to be in favor of Gore in terms of the popular vote. It’s even more absurd in this (inaudible) that you have really one of the most heavily audited electoral systems in the world. I think this has been recognized by international observers, certainly former President Jimmy Carter, (inaudible) as the best system in the world.

And the terms of this electoral process were agreed to beforehand by the Venezuelan opposition. You have an extraordinary audit of 54 percent of the ballot boxes. Each electronic voting machine produces a paper receipt. These paper receipts go into sealed ballot boxes at the end of the voting day. Fifty-four percent of these ballot boxes are audited in a random sample. This is way beyond what’s necessary from a statistical point of view: You really only need 2 to 3 percent. But this is a concession that was made to the opposition. But now they’re calling for a full recount. And so, you know, they’re constantly trying to push things a little bit further in their attempt to sort of delegitimize the process here.

...

LUISA ORTEGA: [translated] Seven Venezuelans have been killed. Among them was a police worker with the Táchira state police. And so far we have confirmed 61 injured people. And I ask that you hear this, that among the injured, there was one person that they burned alive. They intended to kill her by burning her. They set her ablaze. Take note of the level of violent aggression that this particular group of people have at this moment.

AMY GOODMAN: That was Venezuela’s chief prosecutor. Alex Main, can you talk about where the country goes from here? We also mustn’t forget that it was the U.S. that endorsed the coup in 2002—what was that, 11 years ago—that threw out Hugo Chávez for a few days before he made it back in, unlike other leaders, like President Aristide in Haiti, who didn’t make it back to the country, or Zelaya in Honduras. But what happens now? That just shows the significance of U.S.’s position in these countries.

ALEX MAIN: Well, I mean, it is absolutely critical, this point about the U.S.’s position on the internal affairs of Venezuela, because what the U.S. is doing is really essentially emboldening the opposition. Having this sort of support, to them, really means the world. And I think until the U.S. sort of backs off and, you know, follows the rest of the world, really, in recognizing the results of these elections, the opposition is going to continue with its current tactics.

So, yeah, certainly on Monday night, there were scenes of chaos. What was particularly ironic, given that the Capriles campaign has said that it is all about defending Venezuela’s social programs under Chávez, is that there were many of the government health clinics that were attacked, also many of the subsidized food stores that were attacked by opposition supporters. And along with those, also PSUV headquarters, various government officials’ residences were attacked. So, we’re really seeing scenes reminiscent of, again, the time between 2002, 2004. In 2004, you had what was called the guarimbas, supposedly peaceful protests, and Capriles keeps insisting that he’s been calling on peaceful protests when he tells people to take to the streets. In fact, that was the case also back in 2004, and those peaceful protests grew very violent. They really paralyzed most of Caracas for a few days and led to a few deaths, as well. Capriles is perfectly aware that there are violent elements within the opposition and that when he tells everyone to take to the streets to, quote-unquote, "defend their votes," this is the likely outcome.

So, really, I think, you know, the U.S. is being quite irresponsible. They’re promoting a civil conflict in the country. Fortunately, the opposition seems to be backing down at the moment. Last night was much calmer. But until the State Department has a clear position on the situation, we’re likely to see this continue.

AMY GOODMAN: Alex Main, we want to thank you for being with us, senior associate for international policy at the Center for Economic and Policy Research, served as an election monitor in Venezuela. He is speaking to us from Caracas.

Creative Commons License The original content of this program is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States License.

http://m.democracynow.org/stories/13589
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/4/17/venezuela_accuses_us_of_plotting_coup

[joshcryer]

1. Democracy Now on another recount:

Was the Mexican Election Stolen? Questions Raised Over Results From Preliminary Recount
As protests for Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador continue in Mexico, we take a look at the country’s contested presidential election. Mexico’s Mark Weisbrot of the Center for Economic and Policy Research’s says Mexico’s handling of the recount raises questions about the lack of transparency in the recount and the election. [includes rush transcript]

In Mexico, President Vicente Fox said this week that his ruling party ally, Felipe Calderon, was the "clear winner" of the country’s disputed presidential election. His comments came ten days before Mexico"s top electoral court is to rule on fraud claims brought by populist candidate Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador.

Fox also warned against what he called "extremist" and "messianic" politics in a clear criticism of Lopez Obrador who has launched massive demonstrations over the past few weeks to press for a full ballot-by-ballot recount of the vote. Official tally results in July put Calderon ahead by two hundred forty thousand votes–or just over half a percentage point. Lopez Obrador soon filed claims challenging the results alleging fraud and government interference.

Supporters of Lopez Obrador have brought the capital to a virtual standstill over the past few weeks with round-the-clock protest camps, blocking streets and launching demonstrations. The electoral court has to rule on the fraud claims by the end of the month and name a new president by September 6th.

http://www.democracynow.org/2006/7/5/populist_lopez_obrador_demands_full_vote

Oh, the left can be so damn hypocritical. Shame on Amy Goodman.

[limpyhobbler]

2. Thank goodness for this kind of news reporting.

I can't imagine what it would be like if all we had to depend on was CNN, NBC, and the rest. It's disappointing to see the US continuing the hostile attitude by encouraging Venezuelans to question the legitimacy of their government for no reason.

[Catherina]

3. Democracy Now is a national treasure.

It's more than disappointing, it's absolutely revolting.

Maduro's not mincing words and I 100% agree with what he said earlier today

... He added that the private channel Globovision "has promoted violence."

"In this country we will move forward, with fascist Globovision and the new Carmona (Capriles) or without them," he said.

The president asked "what would have happened if we had called for violence?". He then said: "We would be collecting thousands dead. That was what U.S. imperialism wanted, it doesn't mind the blood Venezuelan, nor do their pitiyanqui lackeys. They wanted a civil war scenario- Libya, Syria ".

http://www.ciudadccs.info/?p=411859

pitiyanquis = little yankees, collaborators

[limpyhobbler]

4. Yes. It seems part of the strategy of the US and Capriles is to act threateningly,

such as by hinting toward violence and calling the gov't illegitimate, with the goal of putting the gov't on the defensive. They would like to provoke the gov't into taking harsher security measures that will make it look like the authoritarian regime the US likes to pretend Venezuela is. And then any violence can be used as an excuse to discredit and de-legitimize the Maduro gov't.

[joshcryer]

6. May I ask where Capriles has "hinted toward violence"?

Thanks for the citations.

[limpyhobbler]

8. I thought I saw him on the news saying the government is not legitimate and his people will not

stand for it. Or something along those lines. Sorry no citations from me. Did you watch that DN report? I think maybe I heard it there. I also heard some clinics were attacked by some thugs or something. I read that in one of the excerpts around here somewhere. He also threatened to have a big march in the streets, reminiscent of some actions in during the coup against Chavez. That would be like if Al Gore had called tens of thousands of supporters out to surround the White House during the 2000 election controversy, just to show some muscle, except worse because in Ven. those situations have a history of turning bloody.

[joshcryer]

9. He has consistently urged from the beginning not to be violent.

When Maduro illegally banned a protest Capriles planned, Capriles called the protest off, knowing that violence would occur. In fact, it was Maduro who, in that speech, said he would use a "firm hand" if the protest went on. That's the violent threat, right there.

Al Gore stated that he could have staged a protest against Bush (and even ran a clandestine government) but chose not to. For many progressives we felt as if he gave up the fight, that it was an affront to, "petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Where would the world be today had Al Gore actually done that? Who knows.

Venezuela is already an extremely violent state. Both sides appear to even be taking day-to-day violent deaths into their fold (I can count two instances where both sides didn't have a credible claim to the dead, which is extremely morbid indeed).

We progressives for years under Bush* did not consider him legitimate, and we made it known, far and wide. Even top officials did it. And we didn't even have a constitutional right to do this (outside of free speech).

Venezuela's article 350 demands it of Venezuelans:

Article 350: The people of Venezuela, true to their republican tradition and their struggle for independence, peace and freedom, shall disown any regime, legislation or authority that violates democratic values, principles and guarantees or encroaches upon human rights.

Meanwhile the talk of medical facilities being razed was a complete fabrication, it never happened. While some PSUV campaign spots were burned so were MUD campaign spots.

[limpyhobbler]

10. By calling for the street protest, Capriles supporters knew this would force the government into

having to cancel or disperse the protest. Because a big protest like that right after a controversial election is very threatening. It looks like the beginning of a coup. It's how the US would orchestrate a coup. The Venz. govt may be (justifiably) a little paranoid about the threat of a US backed coup. The US deliberately talks smack about Venz. to make the Venz. government paranoid. Capriles' team called for the big march knowing the gov't would be compelled to cancel it or disperse it, to prevent violence or even a coup. They force the government into taking this action so then they can use that action as evidence of authoritarianism.

[naaman fletcher]

11. lol

If the FBI banned an occupy march, would you say "Well, they should have known that by planning to exercise their rights, they should have known they would force the FBI to violate such rights."?

[limpyhobbler]

12. no I wouldn't.

The histories and situations are totally different. The US doesn't have any credible reason to fear a US-backed coup.

"As Evo Morales says, the only country that can be sure never to have a coup d'état is the United States –
because it hasn't got a US embassy. " (1)

see also List of CIA coup attempts .

[naaman fletcher]

15. You either have the right to peacefully protest or you don't.

We are not talking about banning a coup. We are talking about banning peaceful protest.

[limpyhobbler]

17. Then why do we need permits to protest on the mall in Washington DC?

Democracies regularly regulate when and where people can stage large protest marches. It's no greater violation of liberty than we regularly see in the US and Canada. Sometimes you get to protest, and sometimes you don't. It depends when and where you want to do it and how many people you are bringing.

This is a paraphrase of what Capriles said:
Maduro did not win the election. His government is not legitimate. I want all my supporters to go out in the street and surround the presidential palace and we'll take it from there. It's cool the US has got our back.

That looks exactly like the beginning of a coup attempt like the one in 2002. It's quite likely that such a protest would have resulted in violence and deaths on both political sides

[Catherina]

7. Can we even count how many times they've used that script? I can't n/t

[Judi Lynn]

5. Capriles, the "new Carmona." Super good. n/t

[bvar22]

13. Now, now.

You KNOW that the USA would NEVER be involved in violent attempts to overthrow democratically elected governments in Latin America.
Shame on you and Amy Goodman.

/sarcasm

[Catherina]

14. I'm dutifully ashamed

[bvar22]

16. Another kick, this is important because...

...the populist reforms sweeping across Latin America, despite the best efforts of the CIA, the American 1%, their employees in BOTH parties in Washington, the IMF, and the Global Banks, are the Blue Print for "change" here in the USA.

The success of our neighbors in Latin America give me HOPE for the World.

VIVA Democracy!!!
I hope we get some here soon!