Latin America
Related: About this forumMaduro calls Venezuela opposition "heirs of Hitler"
Venezuela's acting President Nicolas Maduro on Saturday called the country's opposition "heirs of Hitler," accusing them of persecuting Cuban doctors working in the South American country the way Jews were persecuted in Nazi Germany.
His barbs added to weeks of insults in the run-up to the April 14 presidential elections triggered by the death of socialist leader Hugo Chavez this month. Polls show Maduro with a double-digit lead over opposition rival Henrique Capriles.
"The campaign against Cuba is just like the campaign against the Jews in Hitler's Germany," Maduro said during a rally in Chavez's home state of Barinas. "The heirs of Hitler are leading a campaign in Venezuela against the people of Cuba."
Chavez, ten years ago, began bringing Cuban doctors to Venezuela to provide free health care in slums and rural villages, and maintained close ties with the communist-run island's leadership throughout his 14 years in office.
http://news.yahoo.com/maduro-calls-venezuela-opposition-heirs-hitler-185044157.html
Maduro certainly is running a classy campaign.
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)whom they have always revered, even though he was impeached for stuffing the Venezuelan Treasury into his musty old pockets and having his mistress deposit large blobs of it in U.S. banks. They support his massacre, of course. After all, the dead were only darker-skinned poor people. What did they expect? To have their great, fluffy butts kissed as if they were oligarchs?
They are his heirs also in calling for Chavez' death all these years.
F###faces.
Zorro
(15,749 posts)Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)propaganda factory. They've been hard at since their first overturned leftist President in 1954, all set up well in advance by a shit-storm of pure gibberish laid down through the communications media. That's well known as their pattern, known world-wide for it's pure filthiness. They're the most successful on the planet, of course.
Only the most unintelligent, however, attempt to bring such lies to life.
Zorro
(15,749 posts)Or are you saying Washington made Maduro call the opposition "heirs of Hitler"?
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)Zorro
(15,749 posts)Again, it's no surprise you'd defend anti-Semitism.
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)I'll wait while you look up one of what must be real reasons you feel justified in saying that.
Surely you wouldn't just be blowing it out your lower region again, would you? Senility? Exhaustion? Incompetence? Insanity? Diminished capacity? All that and more?
Zorro
(15,749 posts)trivializes the Holocaust.
BlueToTheBone
(3,747 posts)to South America. We can be sure that some landed in Venezuela.
Marksman_91
(2,035 posts)Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)forever, regularly, to misrepresent leftists in order to gain support for overthrowing leftist governments.
It's pure crap, being wildly spun for maximum effect as they hope to mislead people who don't take the time to listen more carefully or care enough to try to find the correct interpretation.
My google translation says Maduro said "This was denounced to the world, heirs of Hitler Venezuela campaign directed against the people of Cuba like the campaign that justified the Holocaust against the honorable Jewish people."
The conspicuous right-wingers (whom many have always seen as fascists, of COURSE) are trying to spin this, making a lot of smoke and odors, hoping if they make enough noise they can get some traction with it. That's just not going to happen.
Maduro didn't say that. You know it, we all know it, and it is comical that anyone is trying to work it that way. Right-wingers are the violent fools, every one knows it.
Capriles has stated, loudly, he intends to destroy the oil price subsidies for Cuba's 11,000,000 people, which have been in place after Chavez was inaugurated. Oil price subsidies for various countries is a practice which has been in place in Venezuela for YEARS before Hugo Chavez ever was elected, so the subsidies themselves are NOT unacceptable to the Venezuelan fascists, and they are willing to make the 11,000,000 Cubans endure more hardship just because they can do it if they can grab the Presidency.
They also will succeed in removing all the Cuban doctors and other personel who have been running the clinics, the missions, and teaching young Venezuelan medical students and technicians, so they can bring desperately needed medical help to the poor who have been unable to get medical treatment all the years before Chavez. We damned well know that, too.
For anyone to try to lie this much about things only shows there are some very unethical, des;picable people who would do anything to bring more hardship to those whose lives already have been far harder than they themselves could ever survive.
It's about time you hogs people butted out of the progress which is needed for the world to get better after you damned well nearly destroyed it.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Marksman_91
(2,035 posts)So now you're saying that Google Translate gives a perfectly acceptable translation of anything you write in it? Maduro says it verbatim, in the video:
"Nosotros, y yo, lo digo en este momento como jefe de estado, esa campaña de intolerancia viola la constitución que le garantiza a todos los venezolanos sus derechos políticos. Hay que pensar en acciones para ponerle freno a la intolerancia fascista de estos herederos de Hitler! Así lo digo!"
Translated: "We, and I, I'm saying right now as commander-in-chief, that campaign of intolerance violates the constitution, which guarantees every Venezuelan their political rights. We must think about actions to put the breaks on the fascist intolerance of these heirs of Hitler. That's how I say it!"
I find it truly immature to designate the opposition as "heirs of Hitler" when Capriles's own grandmother survived prosecution from the Nazis. But of course, you must be an expert on the subject regarding the campaign of "intolerance" that the government claims to characterize the opposition living where you are. Obviously you're more knowledgeable about everything there is to know regarding the current situation in the country, especially without being a native Spanish-speaker.
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)They will do ANYTHING to advance their claims, anything which can't bring them trouble.
They are actually very cowardly, always looking for the safest way to harm others the most.
Saying you are a native speaker doesn't move anyone to believe you are good. Good people don't want to return the poor in their country to the state of desperation in which they have already lived all their lives, the butts of your jokes, your sneers, your hatreds, the very people you fantasize are your inferiors.
I don't think you're going to win any converts among people of conscience.
Zorro
(15,749 posts)just because you don't speak Spanish.
ocpagu
(1,954 posts)...from having a more informed and more fact-based opinion than some Spanish speaking people here. Also didn't stop her of having more empathy for the Venezuelan people than some Venezuelan "expatriates" that seem to believe most of their compatriots are uneducated blind people who don't understand Chávez is destroying their lives.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)As she is any time "translation issues" come up. I'm reminded of the vile homophobic slurs Maduro used last time.
MADem
(135,425 posts)is long enough so that there's no question about his words OR his intent.
How interesting that one of the most vocal advocates of the mess down that way can't even speak the doggone language. It explains a lot!
Marksman_91
(2,035 posts)And I certainly know the reality of my country better than you or Judy could claim to.
Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you were in Venezuela or had any family members and friends that still live there?
ocpagu
(1,954 posts)World Social Forum, in Caracas.
Stayed in El Recreo and went a lot to La Floresta where the activities happened. Found it a wonderful city.
Marksman_91
(2,035 posts)I know that area like that back of my hand.
Certainly doesn't show the real face of the city, though. That area is all within the Chacao municipality, which is an opposition bastion. It's filled with all those nasty middle-class people who are mostly all anti-Chávez. I'm actually surprised you found that area wonderful.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)It's the divisive hateful shit that makes one side out to be the enemy of all that is good. I reckon that it's only a few thousand on both sides who foster the hatred.
ocpagu
(1,954 posts)But didn't say La Floresta was my favorite. Enjoyed El Recreo a lot. And there were activities in some of the cerros too. I'm not claiming to know your city better than you do. I'm answering your question about being in Venezuela.
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)He called the opposition "heirs of Hitler." That's despicable. Admit it. Own up to it. Whatever laudable programs Maduro may propose, that's a shitty, gutter-low dirty campaign tactic and you know it, and you should at least admit it.
ocpagu
(1,954 posts)So, you find it "truly immature to designate the opposition as 'heirs of Hitler'"...
But you had no problems in comparing Chávez's voters to nazis in a former thread...
"The idolatry that people give to Chávez is something bordering on religion, it's unhealthy for the mind. I'd go as far as compare it to the idolatry that Nazis gave Hitler."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110810748#post80
Marksman_91
(2,035 posts)Some are now elevating Chávez almost to sainthood by their own terms.
It's a radical cult of personality that is simply not healthy to have.
This video was also released by one of the state-owned channels:
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/346699
(Apparently Heaven is reserved only for people who are hardcore left-leaning figures)
And the only aspect I'm comparing both parties through is the fanatism, not through their atrocities. Obviously Chávez's government and his lackeys are nowhere near as bad as the Nazis were in terms of the acts carried out against innocent people. But Maduro and his ilk seem to think that anybody associated with the opposition is, or at least that's the impression they're giving.
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)Judy denies it. Surely she is correct, right?
ocpagu
(1,954 posts)But it is being taken out of context. He was referring to the intolerance of certain sectors of society (the video really doesn't give bases to say he was attacking the opposition) to medical community of Cuba and to the artistic and intelectual community of Venezuela. And I agree with what he's saying: several of Chávez critics do use fascist rhetoric.
And I don't think it's right to let the tree conceal the woods. He has a point.
The criticism chavistas face reminds me a lot of Lula.
Some years ago, for example, Lula said that the financial crisis was caused by "blue-eyed blond people" and we saw entire crowds in the press criticizing him for that and calling him racist. But he had a very good point (that the people who were suffering the most from the crisis are those who didn't have any influence in creating it) and this point was completely ignored and obscured by the criticism related to a small, pathetic and false detail (he's not, he's never been racist).
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)It's not even comparable.
Maduro is a homophobic, antisemetic, bigot.
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)no way to heat homes, cook, etc., etc. is serious.
You don't really seem authentic attempting to sit on your high horse. The last think in the world people associate with the right-wing is actual morality.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Why can't Cuba pay fair rates and stop taking from poor Venezuelans (whose oil wealth is their own by constitutional right)? To keep the status quo in power?
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)Mexico and Venezuela renew San Jose Accord
Aug 03, 2004 02:00 AM
Mexico and Venezuela renewed the San Jose Accord whereby the two oil producing nations supply a total of 160,000 bpd of crude to 11 Central American and Caribbean nations at discount prices.
The document was signed simultaneously in Mexico and Venezuela by Presidents Vicente Fox and Hugo Chavez, according to a joint communique.
The San Jose Accord came into existence on Aug. 3, 1980, and it has never been suspended. The countries that benefit from the special crude prices are Barbados, Belize, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Jamaica, Nicaragua, Panama and the Dominican Republic, the communique noted. The pact also establishes "a cooperation mechanism to promote the economic and social development of the beneficiary nations."
The cooperation accord finances social-economic development projects in the participating nations, as well as trade of goods and services by Mexican and Venezuelan firms.
Mexico and Venezuela each provide half of the total 160,000 bpd of the crude sold at discount prices.
http://www.gasandoil.com/news/ms_america/ea01e3458a946efa00efd8fbb79b33c0
[center]~~~~~[/center]
As Mexico refused to fold Cuba into the ongoing (since 1980) San Jose Accord, Venezuela arranged a new accord with Cuba in 2000. It was rewritten in 2007 to allow Rafael Castro's name to be officially involved with the arrangement.
[center]~~~~~[/center]
Cuba, Venezuela sign over 100 cooperation agreements
English.news.cn 2010-07-27 10:26:34
HAVANA, July 26 (Xinhua) -- Cuba and Venezuela signed 139 bilateral cooperation agreements on Monday in northeastern Cuba.
The agreements were signed during a meeting between Cuban leader Raul Castro and Venezuelan Vice President Rafael Ramirez in Cayo Santa Maria, 350 km east of the Cuban capital of Havana, the official news channel NNTV said.
The cooperation projects, which focus on food, energy, mining, healthcare and light industries, will be launched immediately.
Trade between Venezuela and Cuba reached 3.138 million U.S. dollars in 2009, according to Cuban figures. Caracas supplies Havana with 100,000 barrels of oil daily, while receiving services from about 30,000 Cuban doctors and specialists in other branches.
More:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2010-07/27/c_13416895.htm
[center]~~~~~[/center]
For the hard of grasping, this kind of arrangement has been in place, FROM VENEZUELA to smaller nations since 1980, WITHOUT CHAVEZ, and no one took his precious time to try to get propaganda material from the situation by wailing it causes Venezuela to seem as though a "banana republic."
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Petrocaribe is based upon the San Jose Accord, but it is not the same thing.
Cuba is a really direct example because Venezuela is giving away a lot to Cuba under the Convenio Integral de Cooperación.
We don't like it when the US gives subsidies to Israel, Jordon, Egypt, etc, to keep those governments in power. But we're supposed to say it's purely for altruistic reasons when Venezuela does it with Cuba?
$2.5 million a day was assuming oil at $58 a barrel. It's closer, then, to $5 million a day. Or nearly $2 billion a year. This is more than the United States gives to Egypt in aid every year. A country whose GDP is only 2% of the United States. That's an incredible subsidy.
MADem
(135,425 posts)reorg
(3,317 posts)I am personally not all that scandalized by subsidies among allied countries. In Germany, where I live, the states with higher tax revenue subsidize those with lower income to the tune of up to 3.4 billion Euros per year (Saxony, with 4 million inhabitants) - without any compensation. The only benefit I have as tax payer in one of the rich states is the satisfaction I may feel that Germans in the poorer states have access to the same quality of state services than I have.
However, I am sceptical about the numbers you are citing. According to Wikipedia, they are false (like so many other claims of yours we have debunked so far):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba%E2%80%93Venezuela_relations#Oil
This is what the convention says:
La República Bolivariana de Venezuela se compromete a proveer a la República de Cuba a solicitud de ésta y como parte de este Convenio Integral de Cooperación, bienes y servicios que comprenden asistencia y asesorías técnicas provenientes de entes públicos y privados, así como el suministro de crudos y derivados de petróleo, hasta por un total de cincuenta y tres mil (53.000) barriles diarios. Estos volúmenes serán presentados en un programa de nominaciones, de carácter trimestral y anualizado por las empresas CUPET y CUBAMETALES a PDVSA en las cantidades y condiciones que se establecerán anualmente entre Las Partes, tomando como referencia las bases del Acuerdo Energético de Cooperación de Caracas.
Las ventas ser realizarán bajo los contratos tipo de PDVSA en condiciones CIF para cada uno de estos tipos de crudo y derivados.
Los precios serán determinados por el mercado en base a las fórmulas aplicables.
Las ventas serán sobre las bases de un esquema de financiamiento mixto de corto y largo plazo, utilizándose las escalas aplicables al Acuerdo Energético de Caracas, que es la siguiente:
Precio promedio de realización/venta por barril de crudo en dólares estadounidenses Ajuste %
> =15 5
> = 20 10
> =22 15
> = 24 20
> = 30 25
La anterior fórmula será aplicada al resto de los combustibles y lubricantes.
Todo lo relativo al financiamiento de corto y largo plazo, se regirá de conformidad con los dispuesto en el Anexo II que se entenderá como parte integrante de este Convenio.
Artículo IV
Disposición Especial
La República de Cuba ofrece gratuitamente a la República Bolivariana de Venezuela los servicios médicos, especialistas y técnicos de la salud para prestar servicios en lugares donde no se disponga de ese personal. Los médicos especialistas y técnicos cubanos en la prestación de sus servicios en la República Bolivariana de Venezuela ofrecerán gratuitamente entrenamiento al personal venezolano de diversos niveles que las autoridades soliciten.
La parte venezolana cubrirá los gastos de alojamiento, alimentación, transportación interna.
El gobierno de Cuba garantizará a todos los galenos y demás técnicos sus salarios y la atención adecuada a los respectivos familiares en la Isla.
http://www.minpal.gob.ve/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=551&Itemid=4
So, Venezuela actually provides a limited amount of oil at a 25% discount.
Assuming a price of US$100 per barrel, a 25% discount for up to 90,000 barrel per day is equal to US$2,250,000 per day or some $821 million per year.
At current oil prices, the number of 8 billion dollars in total mentioned in the Wikipedia quote above is reached within ten years or so.
This "gift", however, as is commonly known, is not free of charge since Cuba provides doctors and services in exchange:
In April 2005, the two countries signed an agreement to increase the number of healthcare workers in Venezuela to 30,000 and initiated health programs which included establishment of 1,000 free medical centers, training of 50,000 medical personnel, and surgical treatment for approximately 100,000 Venezuelans in Cuba. Cuba also offered to train an additional 40,000 Venezuelan physicians. Meanwhile the oil shipment to Cuba is increased to 90,000 barrels (14,000 m3) per day.[17] In 2005 alone, 50,000 Venezuelans went to Cuba for free eye treatment.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba%E2%80%93Venezuela_relations#Health_care
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_medical_internationalism#Venezuela
The direct cost to beneficiaries of Cubas medical assistance is relatively low. In most cases, the Cuban government pays the doctors salaries and the host country pays for airfare and stipends of approximately US$250 to $375 per month and room and board.
http://www.nuso.org/upload/articulos/3537_2.pdf
($375 + $183) * 50,000 * 12 = $334,800,000
The Venezuelans are being robbed blind. And this is assuming that the stipend comes out of the Oil for Doctors money and is not money that is paid on top of what Venezuela pays. "And the host country" in that last paragraph can be interpreted either way.
Getting around $500,000,000 to send your people into one of the most deadly places on the planet is a good damn deal (note: I'm going by your figure and not the $3 billion figure, because, hey, why not use numbers that you don't dispute and have to go into circles about trivialities?).
reorg
(3,317 posts)from Wikipedia (citing a Foreign Policy article without a link).
Cuba gets the oil at a 25% discount. Venezuela "provides" around 90,000 barrel per day, but they have to pay. Only the discount (25%) is in exchange for the medical and service personnel (which would be far more expensive were it provided by developed nations).
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Which is why I didn't cite it because, predictably, quibbling occurs.
Anyway, it's still a massive subsidy as the math I did, citing your number, shows.
Marksman_91
(2,035 posts)A government not giving subsidies to another government which can't provide for its people is suddenly comparable to exterminating innocents based on their race, sexual orientation and religion? You just keep sinking lower and lower.
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)and the Caribbean since 1982, well BEFORE Hugo Chavez was anywhere NEAR Caracas, anyway?
You need to take it up with the old Presidency at that time.
Nice try.
MADem
(135,425 posts)He gets rolling but good around the two minute mark.
He's no Chavez, though--compared to Old Hugo when he got wound up, Maduro is like madera!
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)idwiyo
(5,113 posts)you believe Cuban doctors in Venezuela are being shipped to extermination camps?
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)you believe Cuban doctors in Venezuela are being shipped to extermination camps?
It's a simple question.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Zorro
(15,749 posts)in accusing the political opposition of persecuting Cuban doctors the way Jews were persecuted, so you are obviously quite well qualified to answer the question.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)etc, etc.
You know the drill. Sounds familiar? No?
Never mind conspiring to disrupt legal and open election, conspiring with foreign power to overthrow the elected government, affiliation with every damn RW neocon in sight, just to name a few things.
Now, do read my signature. Lets make the playing field clear: am a commie, CHAVISTA, peacenik, anti-war, etc, etc.
Really hate RW shills. Like really hate them. Clear enough?
Now, why don't you post some more RW spam. I m sure there is enough spew out there for you to post all day long.
I repeat: if the shoe fits...
Zorro
(15,749 posts)You've already confirmed you're not a big thinker.
Any more RW spew to peddle? Or is it a slow day?
Zorro
(15,749 posts)They always welcome newbie know-nothings chanting revolutionary gibberish.
Just be sure to wear your red beret and Che t-shirt. That's very important for the self-styled rebel.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Zorro
(15,749 posts)You're sure to have more enjoyment in the future.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Now, go play with our l'il computie, post some more linkies for laughs.
Zorro
(15,749 posts)You're an admitted "commie, CHAVISTA, peacenik, anti-war, etc, etc."
What's missing? Oh, DEMOCRAT.
Thought so.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Zorro
(15,749 posts)'Nuf said.
It's no surprise to anyone.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)I know it's quite presumptuous of me to consider posters on Democratic Underground to be Democrats who support Democratic policies and principles.
Limey wankers have also posted in this forum from time to time.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)Seems to them, you've got to have some kinda reason for not confessing you're a DemoncRAT.
Gotta be that it's because
[center]
Y'r a commie! That's right. Communist. Lucifer![/center]
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Zorro
(15,749 posts)Case in point.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Zorro
(15,749 posts)From what I can tell, none.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)I guess self-declared commies aren't clever enough to figure that out.
Must have that red beret pulled down too tightly over the eyes and ears.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)shown here enjoying a good yok with his man friend, Roy Cohn:
[center]
Or this one, below, as they determine how fast
they want to go in their handbasket to hell......
[/center]
Zorro
(15,749 posts)You should lay off the Mogen David. Drinking it won't change the perception you applaud Maduro's anti-semitic remarks.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)LOVES you, you adorable little you!
Zorro
(15,749 posts)So do you believe Cuban doctors in Venezuela are being shipped to extermination camps?
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Zorro
(15,749 posts)It's quite understandable, since to do so would be admitting the ludicrousness of Maduro's remarks.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Zorro
(15,749 posts)I guess Maduro did not accuse the opposition of persecuting Cuban doctors working in the South American country the way Jews were persecuted in Nazi Germany, despite all the reports to the contrary.
Typical Chavista response, BTW. Deny documented reports that makes the candidate look like a nutcase. Textbook Republican tactic.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Very commendable that you admit to posting RW spew.
Zorro
(15,749 posts)idwiyo
(5,113 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Unless someone dubbed the speech, he said what he said. Watch the video.
Yours are some of the most childish and uncivil posts I have ever seen on DU. You really are behaving badly in this thread. And you're wrong, too.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)if you don't want to slosh through the presenter's bit.
He did say it. It was certainly not his finest hour. In fact, I don't see how that kind of language, from a candidate himself and not some Rovian "other" pulling strings to influence opinion, is defensible, ever. Particularly not on a progressive discussion board. That kind of crap should be roundly denounced, always. That is an opinion, but it's one I hold quite firmly.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)I'd take it seriously as soon as I see your reaction to some of crap posted by other posters in this thread.
"Limey Wanker" comes to mind right away. Doesn't offend me but am wondering if you think it was used affectionately? As a thinly disguised bigoted slur? Or is it only guilty of being a misogynist slur? I assume you do know what other nice word "wanker" stands for?
I respond to their posts as childish when they resolve to childish insults. YMMV.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Since you want me to comment on conduct in this thread, I'd say there's plenty of incivility to go around, and you own a VERY generous share of the blame for it. Certainly, it takes two to tango, but don't leap out on the dance floor in a firm embrace, and then pretend that you don't like the music or the choreography if your dance partner has better moves than you do.
That "squigly boo" shit you tossed out was childish in the extreme, and it reflects very poorly on you. You threw it out there because you weren't able to respond substantively to a question posed in a civil manner--it's a distraction tool to avoid addressing the key issue--that Maduro DID say what the OP averred he said. Anyone reading the entire thread isn't distracted, though--and you don't cover yourself in glory. That kind of behavior does put you on the radar, but not in a good way.
I am at a complete loss why this kind of conduct wouldn't be personally embarrassing to you. Aside from the fact that this kind of infantile behavior makes DU suck, you come off not like an adult having a conversation about a Latin American political issue, but like a misfit tween, trying to bully and goad someone smaller but smarter in an attempt to derail the conversation for purely disruptive reasons. If you weren't under the influence of drink or drugs when you wrote those comments, and your judgment was not impaired, you might want to introspect on how you deal with people here on this board. Or not--your fate is entirely in your own hands.
Now, if you're going to respond with some childish snark directed at me for calling it as I see it, please do remember that you specifically asked for my opinion about the behavior on this thread, and I am obliging you. To sum up--your own nasty, disruptive and pointlessly argumentative conduct is the source of your woe.
I am of the opinion that you don't really want to discuss these issues at all, you instead want to shit-stir. You haven't proven me wrong thus far.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)to avoid the issue of using bigoted slurs on DU.
Now, I did not alert on that post nor do I intend to. I was called much worse before and I don't expect anything else from this poster. We do have a little history of interaction and after what they said before I have a hard time taking anything they post seriously enough to engage in a prolonged intellectual conversation with them.
PS I did answer their initial question once in a manner I believe was perfectly civil. Just because I am nice.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Of course I know what a wanker is; I lived in UK for years, where the term was commonly employed. For anyone reading along who is clueless to the meaning, I invite their attention here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanker
I think you reap what you sow--is that specific enough for you? You brought on the comments with your snark and rudeness. It was apparent early on that you didn't intend to respond substantively to questions about Maduro's Hitlerian remarks; instead, you lashed out with distractions and rudeness.
It's not a "bigoted slur" to call someone a wanker (it's beyond me how the behavior of wanking, or the state of being a wanker, can be construed as bigotry, FWIW). It's an activity that is common, one that no one likes to talk about, and if one does it too much, one might go blind, according to granny. That said, in the context of this thread, it was used to suggest that you were behaving both stupidly and uncivilly.
If the comment were to be cleaned up to "G" rating standards, I'd say that the intent behind calling you a "wanker" was to suggest that you were chain-jerking, i.e. borderline trolling.
The comment wasn't literally about you or your penis, if that's what concerns you. I think you already know that, though.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)unfortunately it exists. I would expect someone who so loudly denounces homophobic remarks by Maduro (and he is a homophobe, no argument about that from me) would at the very least check what slurs they use before they use them. Just so they don't look like a RW hypocrite later.
As to the rest, I gave this particular poster as much civility as they deserve or offer to others.
Feel free to alert on my posts if you believe I am trolling.
There is no reason to continue conversation with you any further.
Have a good day.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I'd need to see a link that even suggests that connection, because it's not an association I've ever seen made.
The common usage is translatable to the American "jerk off" or "pud puller" and is, as the Wiki definition pointed out, generally used not as a sexual commentary, but to suggest that an individual is an idiot.
Marksman_91
(2,035 posts)Obviously because they consider themselves communists, they automatically know everything there is to know about everything, so obviously they feel some sense of self-entitlement which somehow means that they have the right to evade whatever question they can't answer properly.
ocpagu
(1,954 posts)He's saying that there is a campaign against certain groups that support the Venezuelan government and that this campaign has similarities with far right practices, such as the Nazi did.
If you're familiar with Venezuelan media and with Joseph Goebbels, you know he's right.
Zorro
(15,749 posts)It's been an ongoing theme.
And to deny the significant Cuban presence in Venezuelan affairs is a demonstration of ignorance.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Replace Jewish with Cubans, pretend you CARE DEEPLY about the former...
Very nice RW implementation of RW tactics
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)On Venezuelan media.
Maduro, however, has had hours and hours of cadenas to play to the people.
So that comparison is pretty damn absurd.
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)Also, the constant barrage of advertising he got only several months ago for his attempted run against Chavez probably remain very clear in memory.
Your bitching about his only getting a short time to campaign falls on deaf ears. Them's the rules. It's part of their constitution.
No one watches the cadenas who doesn't want to hear them. Or are we missing something? Are there pop quizzes by government agents?
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)And "constant barrage of advertising" is pretty fucking hilarious (if not a blatant lie, but I presume ignorance here) given that they're limited to two or three 30 second spots a day.
"Your bitching about his only getting a short time to campaign falls on deaf ears."
Ahh, right, it seems like you know this already, but don't give a shit.
The cadenas take over all over the air TV stations in Venezuela. If you want to watch over the air TV when they're on, they're all you can watch.
Don't worry, I wouldn't expect you to support a fairness doctrine or an equal time clause in Venezuela. You already are happy with the rules stacked against Capriles and don't give one iota about how the elections there are unfair. The double standard is just rich, is all.
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)and if they can't remember swarming out into the streets to surround Capriles the way the trolls claim they did during his campaign, they couldn't remember how to get to the polls, anyway, nor for whom to vote.
We heard the private stations DON'T carry any ads for the leftist President in Venezuela. Heard that in terms which came through clearly. Don't think his NO ADS interfered with Capriles' constant campaign ad access to tv, radio, etc. during his campaign for months and months and months.
Also we can be totally sure the right-wing owned media was not attacking, reviling, mocking Capriles 24/7 for his entire life in public service. That in itself is advertising you cannot buy. It is a ####ing GIFT from the whores that be.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)While he was limited to a few minutes of air time every day and while Chavez bolivated on mandatory cadenas for hundreds of hours (even in the time when no candidate is allowed air time two days before the election).
You can pretend Capriles doesn't have legitimate support but his rallies say otherwise:
And Maduro will not be debating him because he knows it.
(BTW, nice jab calling me a troll, your veiled insults don't bother me though, because I have facts and truth on my side.)
reorg
(3,317 posts)I have seen the Capriles ad myself on Globovision about a week or so.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)You may have mistaken rally coverage for an ad.
I require a link to proof. This would be all over chavista sites if he did that.
reorg
(3,317 posts)about the devaluation and how it causes terrible suffering among the Venezuelan people. I guess they could claim it wasn't an election ad, strictly speaking.
This was, of course, in addition to rally coverage which is - contrary to your previous claim in another thread - shown on Venezuelan TV, and not even only on private channels.
Although, I have to admit, when they recently showed a Capriles rally on teleSUR (or VTV, don't remember which), where he had promised to provide new housing for the pescaderos who listened, the reporter asked him afterwards if he was going to use his abundant private funds to deliver on this promise, LOL.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)They showed an empty street but the wind was blowing and the reporter moved a bit and low and behold behind her were tens of thousands of people. Camera man panned away down another street and they kept discussing the rally.
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/127531/maduro-calls-venezuela-opposition-heirs-of-hitler
By the way, this is what pissed me off about this forum and certain posters.
Look, he said it. It was a stupid thing to say, but whatever. A campaign is on and people say stupid things.
Yet, instead of it being left at this we have Judi laughably denying that he said it, and the other guy just randomly attacking everyone without apparently asserting one thing one way or another.
Maduro isn't perfect. He said a stupid thing. No big deal.
reorg
(3,317 posts)Maduro said what he said, but some people are busy distorting it while trying to obfuscate the context.
His reference is very specific, he identifies in the anti-Cuba rhetoric of the opposition xenophobia, intolerance and hate. He then compares it to the atmosphere created by the Nazis in the early thirties in Germany. He does NOT say the opposition wants to exterminate the Cubans, he reads the widely known statement/poem from Martin Niemöller "First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist. ..." which is a warning and admonition to: "Nip it in the bud" (Principiis obsta, Wehret den Anfängen!).
The snippet from his speech quoted in the OP immediately follows his reading of Niemöller's words. So, clearly, what he compares with the campaign against Cuba and the Cuban personnel in Venezuela is obviously not the extermination but the initial hate campaign which in the final instance, after a number of steps in between, LED to the holocaust.
And how, you may ask, since you apparently don't know, could this vilification campaign against Cuba be interpreted as anything but innocuous, meaningless blather? Well, just take this random article "Capriles o Castro" which actually repeats many of the tropes utilized in anti-semitic Nazi propaganda:
they are sucking us dry
they are infiltrating us
they are spying
they are undermining our security
they are communists
they are an eyesore
they are prehistoric
they have always been preying on us
they remote-control our government
and so forth. It is easy to find many similar examples, including from speeches by Capriles.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)It is a fact that the homophobic bigot Maduro sang the Cuban national anthem, but only because he knew it would get a rise out of opposition people (Capriles said nothing about it, wisely not playing into it). Capriles has not directly touched on the issue of Cuban doctors, he merely said that he would stop giving the Cubans oil money. The running thought in opposition circles (not the fascists that they are so often maligned) is that Cuban doctors in Venezuela would be given amnesty and actual paychecks for what they do. It would be a difficult offer to refuse for many of them.
Maduro falsely said that Capriles / the opposition would "send them home" which is simply not what they want to do. I think Capriles should definitely come out and say what is thought within the opposition but I suspect he wants to appeal to the hard right by not saying anything and letting them think he'd send them back to Cuba. He's said he wants to keep the Missiones and clinics, though, and make them stronger, so there's your indication there that he wouldn't send the doctors back to Cuba (they would be free to return of course if they so chose, he'd just pay them a decent salary for them to stay, certainly more than the few hundred bucks they get now).
The reality is that Maduro is comparing the Venezuelan people keeping hundreds of millions of dollars and potentially giving Cubans amnesty in Venezuela to ... the holocaust. It's pretty fucked up.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)immediately reminded me about early days of Nazis and Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Just replace Jewish with Cubans and off you go. Same insinuations, same instigation of racially motivated hatred.
I flatly refuse to believe that those here who are so loudly decrying what Maduro said failed to notice this connection. They did and this is exactly why they keep trying to distort what was actually said and why it was said. As evidenced by the reply to your post. Lets go for exaggerated claims, start talking about concentration camps (with implication that it was coming from Maduro and not from them), etc, etc.
As I said before, if the shoe fits...
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)that was used by Nazis against Jewish people during the early days in Germany. Just have a look at the Protocols of the Elders of Zion for criss sake. Replace Jewish with Cubans, then have a good look at what opposition actually saying. It's all there, clear to see.
The anti-Chavez camp on this site are not stupid, they saw it immediately. This is why they are running around screaming bloody murder, throwing accusations of anti-semitism, and exaggerating what was said, why it was said, and how it was said. And try to move as far away from the actual insinuations coming from opposition as possible.
The shoe fits. There is no denying it. I stand by my initial statement.
PS am a girl, never tried to hide that fact on DU
Thanks to another poster for confirmation that Maduro was not talking about concentration camps, and extermination of Cubans. Those claims are pure fabrication. Not that it will stop anti-Chavez group asking the same stupid question again and again.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)It's "supporters." Not the campaign itself. Capriles has come out denouncing this sort of thing.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Highlighted by me:
Zorro (3,886 posts)
57. Sounds as if Maduro has taken a page from the Goebbels playbook
It's been an ongoing theme.
And to deny the significant Cuban presence in Venezuelan affairs is a demonstration of ignorance.
Hence my response to him:
idwiyo (1,421 posts)
63. Googly Bear, you sound like someone who is very fond of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
Replace Jewish with Cubans, pretend you CARE DEEPLY about the former...
Very nice RW implementation of RW tactics
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Capriles has not and will not meet his vicious, bigoted goal, because he's a better man.
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)Zorro
(15,749 posts)Everyone knows your tendency to read opposing viewpoints with your eyes closed.
Response to Zorro (Reply #8)
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Zorro
(15,749 posts)has been discounted in this forum numerous times, but that hasn't stopped Chavistas to continue to resurrect it.
Have you known any Nazi concentration camp survivors? I have, and it's most offensive to hear such noxious comparisons used to vilify the political opposition.
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Marksman_91
(2,035 posts)I'd like to know exactly how anybody who opposes the Venezuelan regime, including myself, are comparable to Hitler.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Marksman_91
(2,035 posts)Obviously you seem to be an expert on the subject, so I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem with explaining how over 7 million people can be compared to a man responsible for millions of innocent deaths.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Though there are enough of them to cause a hell of a lot of pain for the majority of the population who just happen to be them peasants who dare to think they know what's better for them.
As for the rest of the 7 million or whatever that exact number is... I said it before: there are a hell of a lot of people who tend to vote against their best interests in US even though they benefit enormously from the very people they vote against. Lots of reasons. Some are brainwashed, some are just ignorant, some disagree with current government and go for protest vote, to name few reasons.
But I am repeating myself because we already had this conversation.
There is no point, is there?
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)The Tascón List proves the mentality of fascist chavistas.
And of course, because every single voting machine requires fingerprints for people to make their vote, people take a serious risk by voting, given the Tascón List list (a process here we'd decry at every level; I mean shit we don't like it when people have to use IDs to vote, but in Venezuela it's an ID, fingerprint, and list check, pretty scary stuff). Don't get me started on how the entire process uses electronic voting and how normally we would be against that!
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)You're unaware they are completely open to audit, totally unlike ours, which are considered private property of the voting machine companies and TOTALLY unavailable to audit by anyone?
Oh, my god.
[center][/center]
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)My comment says nothing of the vote counting process. And you know full well that I was supportive of the process and explained it in depth on these forums last time. Why you ask this question is perplexing.
However, if the machine reads fingerprints there's nothing stopping it from revealing the vote of people, thus making the vote non-anonymous, and being a serious breach of privacy. This is why I mentioned the Tascon List, to make that connection. Like you'd care about that, though. Those students who were assaulted by the police for protesting the mandatory fingerprinting, they have nothing to worry about.
Response to Zorro (Original post)
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idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Welcome to DU!
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #66)
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Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:52 Anonymous
In a November 19, 2009 U.S. Embassy Cable, entitled, '2009-2010 International Narcotics Control Strategy Report,' the U.S. Embassy in Bogota acknowledges, as a mere aside, the horrific truth: 257,089 registered victims of the right-wing paramilitaries, who are closely aligned to the US-backed Colombian state.
Slaughter in Colombia: Wikileaks Cables Reveal Killing Hits Record Levels
Thursday 23 February 2012, by Dan Kovalic - Counterpunch
For years, it has been believed that Guatemala led the Hemisphere in mass slaughter in the modern era, with 200,000 victims in the 1980s about 94% of them at the hands of the U.S.-backed state and its death squad allies. Very sadly, it appears that Colombia has shattered that record, and, as Wikileaks reveals, the U.S. is quite aware of this.
Thus, in a November 19, 2009 U.S. Embassy Cable, entitled, 2009-2010 International Narcotics Control Strategy Report, the U.S. Embassy in Bogota acknowledges, as a mere aside, the horrific truth: 257,089 registered victims of the right-wing paramilitaries. And, as Human Rights Watch just reported in its 2012 annual report on Colombia, these paramilitaries continue to work hand-in-glove with the U.S.-supported Colombian military.
Even for those of us deeply involved in Colombia, this figure is staggering. The only time I saw such a figure before was in a book (Cocaine, Death Squads, and the War on Terror) which I recently reviewed on this site, and which cites one independent journalist for the claim that around 250,000 victims have been killed by the Colombian para-state. This book further claims that this number has been artificially lowered through mass graves and Nazi-style crematoria.
It appears now that the U.S. has been quite aware of this death toll for over two years, though this knowledge has done nothing to change U.S. policy toward Colombia which is slated to receive over $500 million in military and police aid from the U.S. in the next two years and certainly did nothing to prevent the Obama Administration from seeking and gaining passage of the Colombia Free Trade Agreement last year.
More:
http://www.alborada.net/kovalik-colombia-slaughter-0212
(Considering the early allies they had after WWII, they've been able to get the benefit of the voices of experience from the first.)
Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #71)
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Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)investigations was slightly revealed. Good grief.
Wow. This is really intense. Now the U.S. gov't is far, FAR more involved in Mexico, too.
Thank you for adding this information for those of us who DO care to learn all we can about what has been happening, what the US tax dollars are being used to fund, and why, and what all the blatant hypocrisy is all about. Jeez.
Sounds just like some of the stuff we heard during Reagan's Presidency, and Bush 41.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Thanks for the post. Maduro is no friend of progressives.
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joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Yes, that is actually somewhat bothersome. But his supporters here have shown a certain character in the past so I've come to expect it from them. One of them made fun of Santos for "wearing makeup" and it was itself rather homophobic.
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joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Apologies if the truth does hurt.
Capriles was not involved in the 2002 coup, but you can push falsehoods if you wish.
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joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Response to joshcryer (Reply #102)
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joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Response to joshcryer (Reply #105)
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joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)Can't imagine how and why you got someone to delete his posts. He was giving you a real drubbing. Those of us who read his comments won't forget.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Great place to dig for information and post it or the benefit of the casual observer, of course.
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)the poster ate his lunch for him. Keeps him from looking as if the DU'er got the best of him.
Don't know how he was able to do that, considering it was a unilateral decision. Clearly other members here had no trouble with him whatsoever, and actually were appreciating his comments.
Clearly it was done to protect a "poster" here, to snuff the voice of a good democrat who had just joined D.U.
Very dirty pool, in every sense. Shameful.
The guy had the facts. He took the time to share them. He frightened someone who comes to disrupt who was able to get help in silencing him.
I hope that the new member will be back, one way or another. He was excellent, far better, clearly, than the one who feared him so much he pre-empted his comments permanently. Dirty, selfish, unethical behavior.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Venezuela: A close look at opposition candidate Capriles Radonskiby Jean-Guy Allard (special to ARGENPRESS.info)
http://venezuelawearewithyou.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/capriles-radonski-terrorist-candidate.html
...
On April 12, 2002, during the most tense hours of the coup detat, the Embassy of the Republic of Cuba was assaulted by a group of extreme right demonstrators that were led by two individuals identified in Venezuela to terrorist acts against Cuba, they are Salvador Romani and Ricardo Koesling. These two were soon after joined by Capriles and the former commissar of the DISIP (former secret police), the assassin, Henry Lopez Sisco.
They cut the electricity and water supply to the diplomatic headquarters, they destroyed the vehicles of the diplomats and they surrounded the embassy so that no one could leave it. Capriles Radonsky was caught on film by the Venezuelan TV stations climbing a ladder and jumping over the embassy fence, then enter the embassy and threatening the Ambassador of Cuba in Venezuela, German Sanchez Otero, with more violence if he did not give up the Venezuelan officials whom they thought were hidden in the Embassy.
On that same day, April 12, Capriles -- who was then mayor of the municipality of Baruta where the Cuban Embassy was located- not only refused to take measures to stop acts of violence, but witnessing on site the violence, insisted on inspecting the Embassy, something completely against international conventions, and then made provocative statements.
...
THE ASSASINATION OF PROSECUTOR DANILO ANDERSON
Among the suspects all of whom are linked to Capriles that sought sanctuary in Miami- is another former DISIP official , Joaquin Chaffardet, who, along with Lopez Sisco was trained by the intelligence services of the USA in the infamous School of the Americas.
Innocent Lamb (tm) (R) Capriles is also linked to Luis Posada Carriles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Posada_Carriles
I found two documents mentioned in this article but have no idea if its even legal to publish link to the one on WikiLeacks. It's an embassy cable mentioned in the article above. Takes ages sometimes to find the links because lots of WikiLeaks sites are heavily blocked and some of the mirrors don't have archives I am looking for.
The second one is definitely legal:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB153/19780816.pdf
Very interesting read about best terrorist friends of CIA in Venezuela and Miami.
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)We can get all the more substantial information we can get, without the smears and crazed spinning!
Very helpful. Thanks.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)The National Security Archive:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/
ocpagu
(1,954 posts)n/t
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Translation: Capriles reasoned with the protesters and refused to have his police fire upon them.
Even the cynical Eva says that Capriles was invited to the embassy to get the protesters to disperse but laments his "having dialog" with the protesters. Stupid fascist should've fired on the protesters and had his police attack them, duh.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)I don't use alert. That poster did it to themselves with CT and hateful attitudes. Skinner himself got rid of that foul person, which is why the posts were "auto removed" (they were banned, all posts scrubbed). I'm sure they'll return and be cheered by others who share that posters character.
MADem
(135,425 posts)For a newcomer, that person seemed to have a familiarity with the board, and a comprehensive array of button - pushing tactics at the ready.
ocpagu
(1,954 posts)... in this issue.
Reductio ad hitlerum is one of the opposition's most used phallacies. Not only in Venezuela, but everywhere the left is on power in Latin America.
Opposition media compares Chavez to Hitler, again
As it happens every so often, the Venezuelan right wing media and their international counterparts are once again raising a hue and cry over alleged threats to freedom of the media and freedom of expression in Venezuela.
So, as I walked down to the newspaper stand in Parque Central in Caracas I had visions of newspapers with blanked out front pages, as was usually the case during the IV Republic. However, what I found was very different. The front pages of most of the papers (El Universal, El Nacional, El Nuevo País, 2001, El Mundo, Reporte Diario de la Economía, La Razón, etc) were extremely critical of the decision of the national assembly to pass an Enabling Act giving Chavez emergency powers. In fact, "critical" is too soft a word to describe their reaction. Many of them were hysterically denouncing the move as dictatorial.
But, the one front page that really caught my attention was TalCual's. The daily opposition paper, edited by former leftist turned rabid reactionary Teodoro Petkoff, had a headline boldly proclaiming "Going towards a dictatorship" and a caricature of Chavez giving a Nazi-style salute.
(...)
The concluding paragraph compares Chavez with Hitler: "This is what Adolf Hitler did. On March 24, 1933, the Reichstag, the German Parliament, gave him special powers for indefinite time and to legislate over any issue. The Reichstag never met again; from then on Hitler ruled in a dictatorial manner. With this violation of the constitution ..." The fact that granting the president enabling powers is within the constitution seems irrelevant to Petkoff.
Read more:
http://www.handsoffvenezuela.org/media_venezuela_chavez_hitler.htm
Hugo Chavez compared to Hitler after vow to rule until 2031
(...)
Milos Alcalay, a former Venezuelan ambassador to the United Nations, told The Daily Telegraph: "It's not the first time that he says the only successor to Hugo Chavez is Hugo Chavez.
"History shows that dicatators who think they are going to last forever will only end up in the cemetery as nobody can rule eternally.
"Chavez, Hitler or Mao would not nominate their successor. Hitler also had votes but he didn't have legitimacy."
Read more:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/8663863/Hugo-Chavez-compared-to-Hitler-after-vow-to-rule-until-2031.html
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)So he should be held to a higher standard, no?
So you think that it's OK for Maduro to be a bigot as long as you can find some tabloid-level nut in the opposition who is just as vile as he is? Is that what you're really arguing here?
Capriles has been nothing but a stand up guy. The worst he's called Maduro to my knowledge is a "kid." Really.
edit, btw, that article is rich when it says, "In any democratic country such a provocation would probably lead to legal action against the editor."
Yeah, such as Maduro being sanctioned for calling the opposition "fa**ots" or for the Venezuelan state radio website hosting a really vile piece of shit article entitled, "The Enemy is Zionism." I highly doubt the author of your link has even commented on those actions.
Response to ocpagu (Reply #87)
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Marksman_91
(2,035 posts)BIG deal. The people that matter if they make these statements or not are the party leaders. Capriles has, as far as I can recall, not called Maduro (and Chávez to a lesser extent) anything insulting or something that compares them to some kind of group that is generally frowned upon. Maduro, on the other hand, who has an example to set before his people and the world, doesn't care about being so irrationally offensive against his opponents, when he should be doing the smart thing and leave the personal attacks behind, and instead focus on telling people what his government's plan to help out the Venezuelan people consists of.
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)out articles they didn't want printed, to the point sometimes there were huge blank spots throughout newspapers.
Wonder why the Venezuela fascist media have never referred to that time, and instead, participated in a coup against Chavez, and have smeared him every single day he's been in office.
Thank you for this good info. The papers REALLY did stink, nothing professional about them whatsoever.
They wouldn't recognize journalism if it kicked them in the butt. They are simply criminals writing gibberish. What a way to spend a life.
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)and as one of the people who read every word he wrote, it came as a ####ing SHOCK to see he had suddenly been snuffed, and every post he wrote vaporized as if he had never existed.
I have NEVER seen this done at D.U. NEVER.
I am entirely sure I know who did it, who got someone in authority to take out this voice which had been FAR, FAR less insulting, FAR less vicious than anything the DU'er who is still here has ever posted.
It was impossible to know how he pulled it off, as there wasn't a reason in the world to suspect the new poster would have a moment's trouble for anything he had written here.
What a total shame. If you can't get ahead of someone, apparently you can have him thrown off in a heart beat, if you have a scheme. The man had the facts when he came here to post. That's what got him shoved out. We were truly robbed of a valuable voice.
Zorro
(15,749 posts)This new BFF poster obviously must have violated the terms of service.
You can always start Chavista Underground if you disagree with the moderators performing their jobs responsibly.
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)I am letting the legitimate DU'ers here know who didn't see his comments, since they were removed by request so quickly by the one he was a threat to with FACTS, not insults, that it has happened.
Those of us who did read every word he wrote all know he did absolutely NOTHING WRONG, and he was not in any way as insulting as the clown who ran to get him removed.
If you can't throw dirty labels at people, can't smear them, and they keep coming back like the new poster did, apparently there's someone here who goes for the shortcut when he thinks he can pull it off, and tries to get someone tombstoned who just joined, knowing he hasn't built up a history, yet.
Cheap. Shabby. Dirty. That part is NOT a surprise, considering the source.
Zorro
(15,749 posts)Who's throwing dirty labels at people?
ocpagu
(1,954 posts)He seemed to be very knowledgeable on the topic and had share lots of information. And he was absolutely civil while here.
Do hope he comes back.
MADem
(135,425 posts)It's how site management now gets rid of low post count trolls/disruptors. Not only are they banished, their disruptive, divisive and hateful comments are banished as well. It's a great drama reducer, IMO.
The auto-remove function was implemented by the admins when we still had Meta.
Examples:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12566673
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022532039
http://www.democraticunderground.com/126120
There are many, many more.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)That poster said some really vicious stuff and now the evidence is gone and people can claim he didn't do anything. It's just not true. And his stint here was so short I don't see his posts archived on the Google cache.
MADem
(135,425 posts)If the case wants to be pressed that he was some sort of victim instead of a trolling perpetrator, I think they would be able to correct that impression.
I saw what he said on another thread--that guy had a very sick and toxic attitude. The "nuke" was more than justified.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Maybe it is in reference to this justified (and well deserved) banning. If so I hope that MIRT members are allowed to come forward and discuss the reasoning behind the ban (it had to have been via majority so I expect that the reasons for it are wholly legitimate).
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)but it certainly doesn't keep them out, as long as they can keep from stepping too far over the line. We know some of them became moderators long ago, because they were caught boasting about it at Freepland by DU'ers over the years, even giving advice to other trolls so they can avoid getting banned themselves.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Any sort of slander against them is irrational.
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)Who did it, and how are you sure of it?
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)I don't use alert though so that's pretty bizarre. I suppose the paternalistic attitude seen often here is that since I engaged the poster and the poster was incapable of being civilized, it is my fault they got themselves banned and all their vicious posts removed.
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)Was on a plane from Munich while this went on. But, someone seems to be losing her mind.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Lots of baseless attacks and smears and just toxic language.
Had they stuck to this sub forum they probably would've got away with it, but filling up a GD thread with attack after attack will get you quick, especially if you're a newcomer.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)And was being abusive elsewhere on the forum.
And not in the veiled way that people are on Lat. Am. He was straight up insulting.
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)Whoever read bezrodny's posts knows exactly what happened. Only the right-wingers would be low enough to lie about it.
It was a shock to anyone, probably even the right-wingers other than the alerter when they saw he had not only lost an undeserved post, all of his posts had also been vaporized, and he had actually been banned.
I would have to warn everyone now who reads this, please do NOT respond to someone here who tries to engage you in a shoving match, throws nasty labels at you, treats you like trash, implies you are a bomb-tossing commie, etc., etc. because you don't support Capriles, as bizarre as that sounds. He is setting you up, friend, and going to try to take you down for having the nerve to disagree with him and his cohorts.
It's a trap.
Zorro
(15,749 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)There's a reason that vile poster was ousted from DU and it's not because he was a truth telling saint as you portray them as.
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)We had absolutely NO clue anyone was going to do that to him because there was NOT ONE POST as nasty as the crap already thrown out here at him, and insinuated about him and probably me to other right-wingers publicly.
It was a very LOW act of real dishonesty to claim this poster was out of line when the evidence showed otherwise, since far worse had already been posted at him. That's some real sleazy behavior.
As I must repeat to other legitimate progressives on this board, watch how often you post to some of these clowns in a short period of time: they will try to use it against you by setting you up, attacking you then trying to get you banned. Very, very dirty, and completely unethical.
Normally it's something you NEVER expect to see at a site for progressives. Who would?
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)That the DU admin caters to anti progressive clowns and bans people who attacks right wingers?
Honestly Judi, you appear to be losing your mind.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)He clearly was not civil. I saw his posts in this thread and the other thread and his toxic, abusive language. I was harassed in that other thread I linked, for playing devils advocate.
Maybe the people shocked for him being zapped were approving of his toxic language, but that doesn't magically mean that the language was not toxic and deserving of a ban. It just means those people who were "shocked" expect to get away with said vile behavior.
ocpagu
(1,954 posts)But, even so, I reviewed the answers to his deleted posts in this thread, since I could have let something pass unnoticed... didn't find any answer that suggests a improper behavior firsthand. Saw nobody angry, outraged, offended...
Really didn't understand why he was blocked.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)That he was being civilized? I always respond to bullshit smears with a very calm demeanor, you should know given that you have called me a right winger on a few occasions. As do a lot of us here because that's all you can do, being called a names is bait to get someone to be pissed off and lose it and get blocked from a thread. I would love to call it like I see it but whenever I do I get my post blocked. The behavior and character of some here is beyond reproach.
The guy was not nice and indeed was warned that his language was toxic and he even edited a post in that prison thread before getting banned. I think it was a 5 minute window, maybe if MIRT saw he was willing to remove the toxic language they may have reconsidered, but you have to learn quick when you first join here, I've seen people say stupid shit with only 5 posts get banned, but they seemed like decent people in their other posts, I tend to be overly forgiving and have never been a mod or part of MIRT though so I can't say that I dislike it when they do their job, they have their reasons and having administered other forums before (no where near as popular) I can understand a zero (or low) tolerance policy, especially for new sign ups.
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)by that poster, since the context of the comments made to him by others are still available for scrutiny.
The determined right-wingers here learned long ago to play the game, and as you can see the one who got him eliminated simply bore down on him, breathing down his neck, nastily pressuring him. The poster himself relied upon information he supplied, and kept a clear sense of humor throughout, a tremendous demeanor.
No one in the world, other than the one who did the job on him, would have EVER imagined anyone would have ever dreamed of sabotaging him. It may be someone just didn't want his links to stand for others to see. I believe someone attacked him over some good links he posted.
You're not the only one who wonders how the older poster pulled that trick out of his ass. I believe he just got lucky, to tell you the truth. He probably got a jury with too many right-wingers on it to make the initial decision. God knows that happens here, even though this site was created specifically for progressives, and we all know right-wingers are REGRESSIVE.
Truly pathetic, and the name involved should be remembered. I hope the one who was inappropriately, abusively treated will find a way to return, and bring his good information back with him.
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)There are a hell of a lot of right-wingers here on DU.
Either that, or you just like to scream "right-winger" at every person you don't agree wtih.
Nah, It can't be that. There must be loads of right wingers here.
Judi Lynn
(160,598 posts)the guy can claim the one who was railroaded wrote blazing words from hell, and only those of us who know otherwise will know how wild these claims really are, how utterly unfounded.
Marksman_91
(2,035 posts)which you apparently seem to associate with the administration of this website, then why not just leave? It's obvious that you think the admins are right-wingers too, so why not just leave DU instead of sticking around here, posting in threads which are all filled with "right-wingers" (a term which you seem to associate with people who put logic before ideology, unlike yourself) and are all apparently monitored by "right-wingers" too? It just seems absurd that you complain about "mistreatment" against offensive posters around here and you still persist to stick around.
Maybe if you and your party stopped with the name-calling and condescending attitude towards anyone that disagrees with your opinions, things would be a little different.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I thought she spoke Spanish, but apparently she doesn't, and that's the source of a lot of her drama and agita (it's quite plain what Maduro said, as an example, and the video is there for all to hear). I do think this routine of calling people right wingers and other pejoratives and calling every news article propaganda, except for the unsourced and vanity stuff she prefers, needs to just stop--it's making DU suck and she is earning a very bad reputation as a consequence of her behavior. Argue the issues, don't fling insults at people, and don't accuse the admins of nefarious behavior without evidence. It's just not cool.