Shaking fists at the sky - part II

[Stuckinthebush]

A few weeks ago I posted an OP called Shaking Fists at the Sky that discussed Bernie supporters anger and bewilderment at the super delegate system.

The newest installment of Shaking Fists is dedicated to the new meme:

"Can I Vote First?!"

See here for an example:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280135386

The new frustration is related to math, probability, and the primary calendar. Evidently the Sanders supporters don't want to acknowledged the first two (math and probability) because they haven't voted yet.

It sucks. I get it. You live in a June state. Your vote is important but we will know the results of the primary long before you vote. We can't ignore math until you do get to vote. I'm sorry. Truly, I am.

Short of a nationwide same-day primary, math and probability will always be ahead of late state votes.

Always.

[radical noodle]

1. They wouldn't care if their candidate was way ahead

Can we just imagine the sorrow they'd feel for Hillary supporters who couldn't vote before the nomination was determined?

[George II]

2. Welcome to the Democratic Party, Bernie and supporters. He eschewed the Democratic Party.....

....for decades and now he and his folks want to rewrite the rules and primary schedule of the Party.

[LisaM]

3. Yep.

That bothers me, too.

[Hekate]

18. That attitude really irks me.

That and the truly dumb trope about how the DNC, Hillary, and Debbie Wasserman Schultz are colluding in oppressing them by not sending voter registration teams out to Bernie's rallies. Several of us have wasted millions of pixels trying to make them understand that's the job of local volunteers for their candidate -- or just local Democratic volunteers, period.

I think I've made it clear I've lost patience.

[George II]

20. I was dumbfounded this past summer when Sanders "supporters" were bemoaning the fact....

....that the DNC didn't set up voter registration tables at Sanders rallies!

They just don't get the concept of party politics or, more importantly, TEAMWORK!

That's why for the last quarter of 2015 Hillary Clinton raised $18M for the DEMOCRATIC PARTY and their state and local candidates, Sanders didn't raise a penny.

[Hekate]

34. They are STILL doing that. I've started shortening my comments to....

"Have they figured out how to bring their own card table and stack of State registration forms to the rallies? Or are they still waiting for the DNC they're revolting against to come hold their hands?"

[pandr32]

22. Exactly!

And they are the real "progressive" democrats--the rest of us are all "third way", whatever the heck that translates to.

[Surya Gayatri]

30. Ya pays yur money, ya takes yur chance. Them's the rules.

[LannyDeVaney]

4. As I've said before, they won't be happy until ...

they can vote with their XBox controller via Instagram. Oh, and no earlier than 10am.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

16. Voting should be as easy as hitting like on Facebook

[DemonGoddess]

5. I'm in a May state

but does that mean I'm going to whine about it? nope. Didn't when I lived in Cali either, and that primary is in June.

[MSMITH33156]

6. All this is academic

They do have LEGITIMATE grievances about the process. It's stupid. Caucuses are a joke. But Hillary is up by almost 10 points nationally:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_democratic_presidential_nomination-3824.html

There is no system in the world that will allow someone to win when down 10 points nationally.

Democrats like Hillary a lot more than Sanders. They have the passion, we have the majority.

[Stuckinthebush]

7. I think we have passion too

Passion for reality

[DemonGoddess]

8. Agreed!

[spooky3]

9. and passion to prevent the Presidency from falling into the hands of Trump or the other

Republican nuts.

[MSMITH33156]

10. And passion for Hillary as well

We don't have the insane fervor they do though, because we are rational.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

15. Except Bernie Sanders has done quite well in Caucuse states

Like the two he one today

[comradebillyboy]

11. Nate Silver won't let them vote

[Hekate]

35. I seeeee. Another CT....

[Lucinda]

12. There needs to be another in-depth explanation of the delegate process posted for GDP

but today is probably not the day for it.

Some do not understand that with the delegate system:

~ It wouldn't change anything if 1000 or 100,000 voted in any individual state.

~ The number of voters ONLY effects the percentage of the delegates their candidate would receive.

~ Each state has a fixed number of delegates that is not changed, no matter how many turn out.

~ Once Candidate A has a majority of the delegates, there is no way for Candidate B to catch up.

~ It wouldn't matter, in this system, if we all voted on the same day. The one with the most delegates would still be the same.

~ The way we do it, is just like a really long drawn out counting process, where the pile of delegates isn't sorted out for a few months, but the end result will be the same.


Their vote is still extremely important for all the down ticket races and other issues on the ballot in their states.

I grew up in California, so I know the frustration of being the one on the end of the counting process. I can remember back to elections when we knew who was going to win before our polls even closed.

And hopefully I got all that correct. I just woke up! Someone correct me if I got anything wrong!

[MSMITH33156]

13. I'm sure they won't like this

but it sucks out there "everyone is against us" narrative

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511420556#post13

[Loki]

14. I've seen so many posts ranting at and calling good

Democrats like Howard Dean sellouts and worse because of the Super Delegate system. Who in the hell is left that they do like? It's as if they will smear anyone and anything that doesn't fit their world view., do things their way. Pretty soon, there won't be anyone in congress that they would allow BS to work with. This is cra car.

[Fla Dem]

24. Yep, lets list the Democrats the Bernie supporters have demonized...

Let's see, there's;
President Obama
Elizabeth Warren
Howard Dean
Debbie Wasserman Schultz
Nancy Pelosi
Rachel Maddow

I'm waiting for the Joe Biden slam, unless its already been done and I missed it.


The thing with these Bernie supporters, just like many of the Obama supporters in '08, it's a fad, a feel good event. They didn't stick around for mid-terms to give Pres. Obama a congress he could work with. I fear the same will be true even if BS gets in the WH. They won't stick around for the hard work.

[Loki]

25. Don't forget Delores Huerta

and even though it's not a person, Planned Parenthood and Cecile Richards for her endorsement.

[Fla Dem]

26. Yes, thank you. As well as Madeline Albright and Gloria Steinem. nt

[Hekate]

32. OMG yes, Dolores Huerta. I called her and John Lewis "icons" and was royally slammed for...

....blind worship and not keeping up with the times. I used to excoriate Dubya for being ahistorical and living in the eternal Now, but these people take the cake and the candles too. They'd like to take the Party as well, but since a shitload of them are not Dems in the first place, I don't think they can.

[Loki]

33. Thank you!!!!

[Pathwalker]

36. Actually, one poster wants ALL Hillary supporters PURGED from

the Democratic Party, and to lose our voting rights for the rest of our lives, finishing with "hating every last one of us with a white hot passion". So, basically, we're ALL road kill.

[Treant]

17. I've heard the same

on election night. "My state got called in three seconds!"

Yes, that's because exit polling showed that your state was so strongly for one candidate or the other that they could call it instantly, without seeing a single vote.

It doesn't mean your vote didn't count--it did and shows in the total. it just means the statistical trend was so obvious that they didn't need to see a vote to know how it would go.

If it had been less obvious, they would have let some, or even many, votes come in before calling it. Yours may or may not have been in the batches they're looking at.

Those final vote totals, however, are the same whether they call it at 8 PM when the polls close, or call it when the very last vote is counted.

At this point? We have enough votes and enough trending data to call the Primary. My vote, in late April, is still important. So is everybody else's vote. It's just that the trend is clear!

[DemonGoddess]

19. Exactly

What this means to me is that while my state won't have a real impact on the national race, being in May, I still need to vote for the down ballet.

I say my vote won't have a real impact in May on the national race, because by then all this should be decidedly over.

[ismnotwasm]

21. Newer voters--this is completely understandable I think

Or people who don't understand the political process. It is hard. My state won't mean much either. It would be interesting to see who gets involved in a revolutionary attempt to change and improve the system we have.

The CT woo people are just annoying

[George II]

23. Newer voters? I'd think in this day and age most of those old enough to vote....

....have graduated from HS. Don't they teach civics or social studies in HS anymore?

[ismnotwasm]

27. I was being kind

Given the "revolution" was based partly on the premise of engaging a younger, but politically UNengaged base. That said, I find the level of political ignorance or naïveté troubling in so-called "political junkies" who bother to post on a political message board

[George II]

29. All summer and fall we've heard complaints about how the polls are ignoring younger people...

....and concentrating on older voters, so the polls are skewed.

As we've now been seeing in the primaries, older voters have been showing up to vote in numbers much higher than younger voters.

It's one thing to be engaged and support a candidate on the internet, but to really support one's candidate one has to actually get out and vote! That's simply not happening (or, as we've found out in some of those "polls", people are voting in the polls more than once)

[ismnotwasm]

31. The fact that Hillary is ahead in POPULAR votes

Says it all.

[Gothmog]

28. The real world is not always fair

By the time the June states vote, the nomination battle will be long over. That is how the process works