I am so sick of the Sanders matra - "But she took money for speeches"

[CajunBlazer]

Here is what I wrote on the subject in GD-P:

Now let me understand this, if a person is paid to give a speech, are they are automatically indebted to those who paid money to to hear that speech? Is that how it works? Do we give no credit to anyone for having integrity? Barack Obama took large contributions from Wall Street to his PAC's. Are you also accusing President Obama of being on the side of Wall Street during his Presidency? By your logic he was deeply indebted to those who gave his PAC lots of money.

I know you are not, right? Because there is absolutely no evidence of that President Obama favored Wall Street just as there is no evidence that Wall Street money influenced Hillary Clinton.

So let's be honest with each other for a change and let's call this what it is. It is an opportunity for Bernie Sanders to attack Clinton even though he worked with her for eight years in the Senate and he knows where she stands on these issues. But that's politics.

[UtahLib]

1. I commend you for trying. nt

[radical noodle]

2. You are truly brave

To post that in the snake pit that is GD-P.

[Bigredhunk]

3. Well

You wrote - "Barack Obama took large contributions from Wall Street to his PAC's. Are you also accusing President Obama of being on the side of Wall Street during his Presidency?" If you read posts here - yes. Do you spend much time on this site? It seems like the majority here hate President Obama these days ("He ran as a liberal and governed as a right winger" or whatever).

I prefer Bernie's ideas to Hillary. I caucused for Bernie here in IA. I like both of our candidates AND President Obama. The crap thrown at the President and at Hillary on this site makes me want to puke.

I think the country should be pulled to the left too. But electing a president or a senator doesn't do much. I don't know how you do it...maybe go to George Soros & Peter Lewis & Tom Steyer (whomever has the cash on the left) and work to establish what the right established many years ago (more LW think tanks, more LW media getting our message out, both our candidates and our members proudly OWNING liberalism and talking up our successes, not running from it/them with piss running down our legs). I don't think one person (or a few) running for office or taking office is going to change much. It has to be much deeper and more widespread than that.

[BlueCaliDem]

13. Agreed. President Obama said continuously: change comes from the bottom up, not from the top down.

I don't know how much clearer the case can be made.

If we want change - especially if we want more LW policy - then we need to GOTV, en masse, not only during presidential election years, but also during midterms.

Americans need to understand that we have major elections every TWO years, not every four. Once we re-calibrate that mindset, we'll never give GOP power in this country again because by not GOTV during midterm elections, we surrender our power and our policies to the likes of Snyder, Walker, Rubio, and Cruz.

Vote every TWO years, just like Republicans do.

[betsuni]

4. Yeah, don't get it.

In Bizarro World if you get paid to give a speech you are their slave and have to do what they say forever. True liberals/progressives do not take money for work, like Jesus. And for some reason we have to re-do the 2008 primary.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

19. Similair to how lots of conservatives

seem to think teachers should work for free... Those teachers are stealing money from the kids with their salaries. If they cared about the children so much, they'd do it for free, right?

[Pika78]

5. That's not all I'm sick of

I'm sick to DEATH of the "in bed with Wall Street" accusation. What the hell does that even mean? She's corrupted? She's going to crush the middle class once she's in office? Seriously - what is up with the irrational fear and gratuitous hatred? Incidentally, Wall Street is not the incarnation of evil, but that's a topic for another day.

I'm sick of the whole BS self-righteous thing (the BS BS, if you will). His supporters have him placed on a pedestal so high you'd need binoculars to see him anymore, which is simply ludicrous. His inevitable fall is really, really going to hurt. Look: Bernie has good intentions, but that's about it. He NATURALLY has some nasty ghosts in his closet - this is politics, folks. Nice guys finish last - and those ghosts coming out of his closet is only a matter of time. For some reason I CANNOT FATHOM (aside from "follow the dollars&quot , journalists seem to be sitting on their hands in this election. Trump should have been all-out tackled a long, long time ago, and not just by late night comedians, while Bernie should absolutely be facing the same digging and jabbing that Hillary is. But the press doesn't seem to want to do its job anymore. So instead we get "the legend of Bernie Sanders," a veritable Santa Claus, who is going to sweep into office on his shiny sleigh, give all the mean people coal, and fill all the nice peoples' stockings with free stuff. And voters actually buy into this load of hooey!

It's fine to believe in Santa when you're five, but once you've reached voting age it's time to face reality: we're all flawed. Those in politics are no different; in fact, they tend to be more flawed than most of us. SO WHAT? The question is, "Can this person govern well?" not "Is this person Christlike in his/her moral perfection?" Because first of all, no one is. Second of all, Bernie effing Sanders is neither Santa nor Christ, and I kind of want to take all his supporters and shake them until they wake up from their collective acid trip. So Hillary got paid big bucks to speak. SO WHAT? That makes her somehow tainted? It's called earning (yes, earning) a living. Jealousy is an ugly, ugly thing, and a shitty reason to go to the polls. I know something about this - I live in France, where voters hate, and I mean HATE the wealthy. Socialism has much more to do with jealousy than most people want to admit. Hell, the French Revolution had much more to do with jealousy than most people want to admit (so Sanders folks citing it as exemplary is pretty ironic - they don't know how right they are). Stick it to the rich - those jerks have more than we do. Or in the words of Napoleon, "Vanity made the Revolution; liberty was only the pretext."

Go Hillary - you're head and shoulders above all these fools.

[livetohike]

10. I was going to post about jealousy and how Bernie's revolution is creating

a culture of cynicism and mistrust.

He is portraying Hillary as "the other". It's the tactic the GOP used against Pres Obama.

I see Sanders as a very bitter and angry man. He is jealous of the success of the Clintons. Who would pay him $100,000+ for a speech? He has neither the breadth of experience, nor the intellect of either Clinton.

He hasn't proven that Hillary's speeches and income from those speeches have resulted in favors.

[Ellen Forradalom]

6. By that logic

Anyone who's ever held a job has zero integrity.

[DemonGoddess]

7. you know...

There are so many who chant the mantra, without realizing that politics are DIRTY.

I'm going to say this as someone who grew up with dirty politics. We accepted our politicians, warts and all, as long as they did what we, the constituency wanted. Having been born in Chicago, and raised in the greater Metro area, I think you can see what shapes my attitude on this. Hizzoner was one of the dirtiest politicians I've ever seen, yet he was a DAMN good mayor. It wasn't just the Democratic Machine that kept him there. It was the constituency. Bilandic is a good example of what happens if you pissed off the constituency. He WON the office with the help of the MACHINE. He lost it, because the constituency felt he failed them.

As to accepting money for speeches? She was a PRIVATE CITIZEN at the time FFS. So what? So she took speaking fees. She's not the first, nor will she be the last. Not by a long shot. Look at all the money other former Secretaries of State have made, and are STILL making by doing this very thing. So what? It means absolutely nothing at all. Hell, PBO took money from Wall Street. Did it make him evil? Did it make him their lackey? I think NOT. So this particular meme can die already. It is utterly worthless.

Bernie Sanders will continue the passive aggressive attacks on Hillary Clinton. That's the way of it. Just as certain people will continue to expect Hillary Clinton to comply with, well, anything, as long as it's only asked of her, because, after all, she's only a woman playing a big boy's game. That's really where it all stems from.

[CajunBlazer]

12. I'm originally from Louisiana...

Edwin Edwards is another good example of a politician who was by no means perfect. he was constantly dogged by charges of corruption. He never made a secret his womanizing or his trips in private planes of businessmen to gamble in Los Vegas. He practically told the public he was crook, but that he was their crook, yet he was elected governor four times. And he was a good governor. He was eventually found guilty of racketeering charges and spent 8 years in a federal prison.

No we can't expect our candidates to be perfect, but in case of Bill and Hillary Clinton, almost all of the mud thrown at them was artificially created in the Republican's mud factory. The Republicans have tried countless times to destroy the Clintons and to their distress they are still standing.

I can remember when Bernie Sanders had sworn off personal attack on Hillary. But that was when he really didn't think he had a chance to win. When he found himself in a position where winning might be possible, he reverted to being the politician he has always been.

[Pika78]

8. Here is a great article on Hillary's so-called corruptness

Which I am too scared to post in the GDP group because I'm new and kinda sensitive.


If You're Liberal and You Think Hillary Clinton Is Corrupt and Untrustworthy, You're Rewarding 25 Years of GOP Smears

Obviously, Clinton carries with her more than 25 years in the white-hot public spotlight that Sanders doesn't -- despite his career in the Senate -- and over that length of time people have been able to form opinions of her and they're ones not likely to change at this point. What you know about Hillary is what you know about Hillary. There aren't a lot of surprises. Maybe you figure this is bad for her, but in truth it can be argued that this is a positive rather than a negative because there's nothing the Republicans can throw at her that we haven't already been fed to death. And when you take a step back and look at Clinton objectively -- which is admittedly difficult for many, even, or maybe particularly, on the left -- that's exactly the point. Hillary Clinton's reputation is largely the result of a quarter century of visceral GOP hatred.

Full article: http://thedailybanter.com/2016/01/hillary-gop-smears/

[yallerdawg]

9. Three decades of GOP smear!

We have 18-40 year olds who have never heard one good thing about any Clinton!

This sums it up nicely (from the link):

You can say you don't want to vote for Hillary Clinton because she's scandal-prone and who wants to go through another four or eight years of that. But remember two things: One, no matter what Democratic candidate gets elected, he or she will face a daily trial by fire from irrationally outraged conservatives. Seven years of Barack Obama-fueled insanity proves that. Two, the supposed scandals that Clinton's been enduring for the past 25 years are mostly nonsense. The GOP wouldn't have it any other way. And they couldn't be happier that right now so many liberals have turned against the woman they utterly despise in favor of someone they're fully aware they can beat. Because they understand she's the only thing standing in their way in 2016. They can't beat her. And they know it.

[livetohike]

11. Thank you! Great article.

[Historic NY]

14. Maybe BS will release those overseas speechs he made...

in the 80's.

[pandr32]

15. It is politics! Bernie is a politician, and an ambitious one

[ismnotwasm]

16. If so, the surgeons I work for

Are all corrupt tools of the oligarchy. Of all the dumbass memes that one is down there in the bottom five. I suppose she shouldn't have written a book either.

[lunamagica]

17. K&R. I'm just tired of him saying the same things over, and over, again

[Lucinda]

21. You aren't the only one. I am seeing more and more people saying that on social media.

Every time I've see a Bernie ad on FaceBook, there has been a big pile on of people saying just that. He is both turning people off and waking others up to the fact that he isn't really answering questions with workable proposals. He's just repeating the same talking points.

[fleabiscuit]

18. K&R; I was a young fellow when I learned you get paid for what you know.

Bernie has not given any paid speeches to the financial business.

[Lucinda]

20. It really all he has, so he's running with it. But the more he harps on about it

the more people will tune it out. Most people are well aware of the zillion times Hillary has been called corrupt etc. and the zillion times it amounted to nothing. He needs a better talking point.