Hillary Clinton
Related: About this forumWhy Hillary Clinton is more progressive than Bernie Sanders, in one sentence
Bernie Sanders attracted a 20,000-person crowd in Boston over the weekend with his uncreative wish list of a platform, in which college would be free for all, Social Security would be expanded for all and medical coverage would be highly subsidized for all regardless of whether you actually need the help. Hillary Clinton finally pushed back Monday against progressives who propose shoveling public benefits at rich and poor alike. One sentence in particular drew a clear distinction between her campaign and Sanderss:
I am not in favor of making college free for Donald Trumps kids, she said, after explaining that Im a little different from those who say free college for everybody.
She then pitched her college affordability proposal, which would allow students to graduate debt free but wouldnt end tuition or work requirements. Clintons system would be means-tested: Those who can afford to invest in their educations would have to. Sanderss wouldnt be.
Sanderss platform isnt visionary, its dull. Rather than devising smart solutions that target scarce federal resources where theyre most needed, he wants to waste massive amounts of money Congress wouldnt ever give him and shouldnt to provide benefits to a lot of people who dont need them. The government already spends astounding amounts subsidizing the housing, education, health care and retirement of the upper and upper-middle classes through tax breaks for mortgage interest, cut-rate student loans, in-state tuition, the tax exemption for employer-provided health-care, universal Medicare and universal Social Security. Thats billions upon billions every year that could go into anti-poverty programs, research or roads without raising taxes. Rather than scaling back this nonprogressive nonsense, Sanders proposes to double down on it just as the impending retirement of the boomers is straining the social programs we already have and just as the countrys infrastructure requires upgrading.
Yes, Sanders proposes raising taxes significantly. But he hasnt said how he would raise nearly the amount he has proposed to spend, and his platform would raise nearly the amount he has proposed to spend, and his platform would require raising taxes on the middle class, not just the rich, to pay for universal benefits.
Real progressives seek to show that government can operate smartly, not haphazardly. Real progressives spend money on urgent needs, not on the rich.
But its hard to attract huge crowds by calling for reasonableness.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2015/10/06/why-hillary-clinton-is-more-progressive-than-bernie-sanders-in-one-sentence/?tid=ss_tw
Response to Historic NY (Original post)
2pooped2pop This message was self-deleted by its author.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Iliyah
(25,111 posts)BootinUp
(47,165 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)and many LGBT youth are not accepted by their families, rich or poor. If my schooling is all about my father's income, then Dad's in charge of my choices at least to some extent.
So what are her provisions for kids who don't want to be associated with their wealthy parents, or who are rejected by them or abused by them?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)William769
(55,147 posts)And it's a discussion I will not engage in since you clearly are only here to disrupt this Group and that I will not tolerate that.
have a nice day.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)means tested just like everyone else. If you are a minor you can emancipate.
treestar
(82,383 posts)They pay it because they want the kid to have it and want them to go right away or to a college too expensive to work their way through.
RDANGELO
(3,433 posts)Most wealthy people are going to purchase their own health insurance and pay for their kids to attend a private colleges, and even if they don't they will be paying a higher percentage of their income on taxes.
appalachiablue
(41,146 posts)Many kids of wealthy families attend PRIVATE institutions like people in Trumpfs category as you say.
Cha
(297,323 posts)sense.. and is more Progressive since it can get Done.
Cha
(297,323 posts)more Believeable!
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)wherein there are many upon many threads on the DU allowing such.
I'm liberal/progressive and so is HRC, period, and BS supporters ain't never going to change my mind nor my vote.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)thanks
William769
(55,147 posts)Coolest Ranger
(2,034 posts)You didn't come here by accident many of you BS supporters come here on purpose.
7962
(11,841 posts)This OP is on the main page. Maybe the "all hillary, no dissent allowed" group should somehow make it so their stories dont end up viewable to the entire site.
William769
(55,147 posts)All the threads about Bernie Sanders that make it to the front page Hillary supporters don't have a problem staying out of those.
I guess that just one other thing we are better at when it comes to understanding.
Cha
(297,323 posts)Iliyah
(25,111 posts)The lack thereof from them is an understatement.
Cha
(297,323 posts)in here should wake up and realize where they actually are and not be in such a hurry to spout off about BS. They have the whole rest of the board for that.
When any member posts in the BS Group who doesn't belong there they get Blocked, too.. There are just more Hillary Supporters who respect that group and know where they are.
I took Skinner's Advice and trashed it.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)iPhone. Then I see all the posts from all the people I've put on ignore, too, but on my phone, it doesn't bother me as much.
Cha
(297,323 posts)I don't have one of those "phones" nor do I need one.. so you've given me one more perk!
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Yeah, I need it for work and the 6-plus is larger for my fading eyes to see without having to put on my reading glasses. That's the ONLY reason I buckled and got one of those giant phones.
Cha
(297,323 posts)into it since the dial-up.
Glad you got something that works for You!
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)How we went from this:
to this:
in just two decades! It still blows my mind.
Glad you got something that works for You!
~Mahalo, Cha!
Cha
(297,323 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Nice antique phone! I'd love to have one of those since I still have a landline - just to have one. lol Call me sentimental.
I was thinking about my daughter when I posted those pictures. She had a Princess phone that looked exactly like that and in that color, too! And now she has the gold iphone 6-plus but she's now eyeing the 6s! lol Good thing I no longer have to pay for that stuff now that she has her own career!
Cha
(297,323 posts)Cool your daughter had a Princess phone all of her own and now she has her own career to buy her own latest technology!
What a world, eh? memories~
William769
(55,147 posts)Good!
Cassidy
(202 posts)In particular, more wealthy and powerful people support it, because they get a benefit, too.
Not having means testing for state colleges and universities would mean the same thing. More people would support it because they, too, benefit.
In addition, I think it would be a great thing if the uberwealthy sent their kids to school with everyone else. Having the children of the rich seeing how regular people live, and struggle to survive, and making friends among the poor and middle class would have benefits for society as a whole. It might even awakened empathy among a fraction of the 1 %. In reality, people like Trump would probably chew their arm off before they would send their kids to a public university.
Another reason not to means test is that people who look rich on paper are sometimes poor in fact. Consider farmers who own land, yet eek out a living. Should their kids be considered rich because if their parents sold their land and livelihood, they could put them through college? What about kids of divorced parents where a wealthy, but non-supportive parent's income also has to be listed?
PS. I saw this post listed on Trending Now, not in the Hillary group.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)a couple of thousand dollars a month that is taxed as income. It is meaningless and no wealthy person has ever endorsed S.S. because they want to cash in on that pittance.
Cha
(297,323 posts)that way anyone can see where they are.
The OP is right .. it makes Hillary More Progressive because her proposals can actually get DONE.
Thank you for respecting our Group.
I prefer her proposals, which are possible and achievable, rather than pie in the sky that we will NEVER see!
Cha
(297,323 posts)Kath1
(4,309 posts)She will be an excellent President!
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)That it should be available to rich or poor. Would that fit into the democratic socialist bag as well?
mcar
(42,334 posts)For pragmatism.
FloridaBlues
(4,008 posts)He's light on explaining the consequences of his wish list.
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)Gloria
(17,663 posts)which means, he is other-worldly, along with his proposals...that can't be paid for and will never get past the GOP...
What a waste of time all this wishful thinking is....we still have to run a government, for Pete's sake! Which means pragmatism, hard choices, common sense, and a lot of negotiating to even get a crumb out of the GOP....
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)phantom power
(25,966 posts)EuroYankee
(3 posts)You don't get it: free in-state tuition is supposed to be a RIGHT. It's about expanding public education from K-12 to K-16.
You are falling for this dumb-jumbo New Democrat incremental jiujitsu.
During the 1980's and 1990's, the Democrats became Republicans on all the issues relating to economics. The past 30 years have been about great "social arguments" - Gay Marriage, Abortion, Gun Control - it was only on those issues that you could tell a Democrat from a Republican - and meanwhile, no one was looking out for the Middle Class anymore. Americans were divided against each other, battling the so-called culture wars, while BOTH parties conspired to transfer wealth from the middle class upward, and to feather their respective nests with donations from their billionaire donors
Hillary Clinton is the very epitome, the poster-child, for the "New Democrat" ideals her husband championed with his deregulation of Wall Street, his destruction of the Welfare system, and his "tough on crime" legislation that has led DIRECTLY to the problems of mass incarceration that we see today. All the while collecting over $MILLIONS in speaking fees and campaign donations from the big banks on Wall Street.
Bernie is here to take us back to where we were a thriving country, with a robust middle class, where we all did better when we all did better. Back to the idea that America is great because of its middle class.
Bernie is no more of a socialist than FDR was with his New Deal, or Lyndon Johnson was with his Great Society. And in that sense, BERNIE IS THE TRUE DEMOCRAT.
Historic NY
(37,451 posts)Bye bye
Cha
(297,323 posts)can be accomplished and makes the most sense.
I know too many liked to mock "pragmatic" about President Obama.. well, that's their problem.. he gets things done too.
All BS does is criticize.. don't see him ever accomplishing anything.