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DeepModem Mom

(38,402 posts)
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 06:56 PM Nov 2015

Bernie Sanders says he’s more electable than Hillary Clinton. Um, no. (Hillary Grp)

Bernie Sanders's campaign released a strategy memo to reporters on Wednesday aimed at pushing back at the notion that he is losing ground in his primary challenge to Hillary Clinton. One argument in it stood out to me: Sanders is a better general-election candidate than Clinton.

Here's the essence of the Sanders camp's argument:

The totality of this data begins to raise real questions about the conventional wisdom’s assumptions regarding which Democratic candidate would fare better in the general election. That Bernie outperforms Clinton with independents and Republicans by wide margins (by net 22 point[s] and 40 points, respectively) should suggest that he is actually better positioned in the general election than is Clinton. The head-to-head match-ups bear this out as Bernie does comparably well if not better than Clinton in essentially every general election match-up with leading Republicans.

Twenty two points! 40 points! President Sanders, here we come!

Ahem. A little clarification is in order.

The "wide margins" that the Sanders camp cites are tied to favorable/unfavorable numbers, not head-to-head horse-race ones. So, yes, according to a recent WaPo-ABC News poll, Sanders has "only" a net negative 30 favorable (26 fav/56 unfav) score among Republicans while Clinton has a net negative 70 (15 fav/85 unfav). But, this assertion — "The fact that Sanders is seen in such a different light by Republicans indicates he has more potential to win a larger share of Republican voters in a general election than does Clinton" — is a bridge way too far.

Presidential elections are the most polarizing campaigns that exist in America. People retreat to their partisan camp and stay there....There's just no real crossover vote in a presidential election.

Clinton's numbers, because of her longtime national profile, have that partisanship already baked in. She's totally known and totally divisive. Democrats like-to-love her; Republicans don't. Nothing will change about those numbers between now and next November.

...The Sanders campaign seems to be mistaking Republicans not really having a strong impression of the senator from Vermont to him having a genuine chance of winning any decent chunk of Republican voters as the Democratic nominee. (There's a big portion of the memo dedicated to how Sanders does better than Clinton in head-to-head matchups with the most likely Republican nominees.)

That's almost certainly not the case. If Sanders did wind up as the Democratic nominee, tens of millions would be spent by conservative groups familiarizing Republican voters with his record — which begins with the fact that he is an avowed democratic socialist....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/11/19/bernie-sanders-says-hes-more-electable-than-hillary-clinton-um/?postshare=7381447965861153&tid=ss_tw via Chris Cillizza, Washington Post

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bernie Sanders says he’s more electable than Hillary Clinton. Um, no. (Hillary Grp) (Original Post) DeepModem Mom Nov 2015 OP
At this point in time the Repugs are paying no attention to Bernie Tommy2Tone Nov 2015 #1
Most democrats aren't paying attention to him either 25-35 points behind in national polling FloridaBlues Nov 2015 #12
Yea that too. Tommy2Tone Nov 2015 #13
This is another one of consider the source, like HA Goodman. Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #2
Chris C. has had some over the top articles that is for sure. Including this one!! riversedge Nov 2015 #3
No, Cillizza's disputing the Bernie ppl's claim that Bernie wd be stronger than HRC in General Election. DeepModem Mom Nov 2015 #4
The Sanders campaign's theory for electability is truly sad and a joke Gothmog Nov 2015 #5
As you indicate, it seems the Sanders campaign and supporters have been pushing... DeepModem Mom Nov 2015 #6
I keep asking for an explanation as to how Sanders will be viable in the general election Gothmog Nov 2015 #8
I'll bet the McGovern campaign made similar fallacious arguments back in the day. Tarheel_Dem Nov 2015 #7
Indeed! DeepModem Mom Nov 2015 #10
Sanders supporters...here's a hint. When everyone is completely ignoring your candidate..... Walk away Nov 2015 #9
+1 leftofcool Nov 2015 #17
Today's speech will kill him amongst Independants GusBob Nov 2015 #11
Do you think that anyone but die hard BS fans saw the speech????? Walk away Nov 2015 #14
You're good! I couldn't do that. "Revolution"? Cha Nov 2015 #16
I've learned they'll "say" anything.. doesn't mean it's true. Cha Nov 2015 #15
I think he's ... NurseJackie Nov 2015 #18
I get it! LOL! DeepModem Mom Nov 2015 #19
Hah! Good one, NJ! BlueCaliDem Nov 2015 #20
Yeah, I get it. Very clever, "fudging the numbers". juajen Nov 2015 #21

Tommy2Tone

(1,307 posts)
1. At this point in time the Repugs are paying no attention to Bernie
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 07:05 PM
Nov 2015

Should he become the nominee he will receive that attention and they will be helped by the media.

DeepModem Mom

(38,402 posts)
4. No, Cillizza's disputing the Bernie ppl's claim that Bernie wd be stronger than HRC in General Election.
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 07:21 PM
Nov 2015

Gothmog

(145,339 posts)
5. The Sanders campaign's theory for electability is truly sad and a joke
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 07:24 PM
Nov 2015

It is clear that Sanders is not electable or viable in the general election and the rationale advanced by the Sanders campaign is really dumb at best. This quote from the article cited really makes it clear why Sanders is not viable:

That's almost certainly not the case. If Sanders did wind up as the Democratic nominee, tens of millions would be spent by conservative groups familiarizing Republican voters with his record — which begins with the fact that he is an avowed democratic socialist. While that's probably enough to take Sanders's Republican support to absolute zero, just in case it didn't, Republicans could run an ad excerpting from this September Wall Street Journal story headlined "Price Tag of Bernie Sanders’s Proposals: $18 Trillion." And that would just about do it for Sanders's hopes among Republicans.

Is it possible that even with his socialism and his proposals for massive increases in government spending, Sanders still might be a less polarizing figure than Clinton among Republicans? Sure. But we are talking about slices of an onion in terms of the difference.

There's a case to be made by Sanders against Clinton in a Democratic primary fight — namely that she has demonstrated a lack of sufficient commitment to liberal principles during her time in public life. That's sellable to a wide swath of Democrats. The argument that Sanders's is a stronger general-election candidate than Clinton just isn't.

Sanders will not pick up any GOP votes and if that is the basis of the Sanders' viability analysis, then my support for Hillary Clinton is well placed

DeepModem Mom

(38,402 posts)
6. As you indicate, it seems the Sanders campaign and supporters have been pushing...
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 07:29 PM
Nov 2015

and believing he could win the GE.

Gothmog

(145,339 posts)
8. I keep asking for an explanation as to how Sanders will be viable in the general election
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 07:41 PM
Nov 2015

The explanations that I keep seeing are really sad and not adequate. Sanders is not going to be taken seriously as a candidate unless he makes a good case that he can win in the general election and so far that has not happen. This explanation by the Sanders campaign was their latest lame attempt and even Cliizzia saw through it

Walk away

(9,494 posts)
9. Sanders supporters...here's a hint. When everyone is completely ignoring your candidate.....
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 07:51 PM
Nov 2015

he is not winning! After that speech Bernie gave today (my high school Social Studies teacher gave it better 40 years ago) I think we can pull the plug on that snorer.

GusBob

(7,286 posts)
11. Today's speech will kill him amongst Independants
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 07:58 PM
Nov 2015

With the Holidays approaching it's time for dinner table politics.

Heard at dinner tables across America next week:

Hey didja hear? The Democrats want to turn America Socialist!

Walk away

(9,494 posts)
14. Do you think that anyone but die hard BS fans saw the speech?????
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 09:52 PM
Nov 2015

The few clips I've seen on news shows are comical. I forced myself to watch the entire thing on line and I was so bored I almost dozed off!

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
18. I think he's ...
Fri Nov 20, 2015, 04:37 PM
Nov 2015

... fudging the numbers!


(Get it? Anyone? "Fudging" ... get it? The numbers are covered with fudge! See?)
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