Hillary Clinton
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders raising money off of false hopes - why aren't we SCREAMING about this?
/rant on
One of the most frustrating aspects of this entire primary season is the fact that the Corporate Media ***refuses*** to hold Bernie Sanders accountable for anything, no matter how egregious, no matter what he and his fanatical supporters do.
And more infuriating is that the liberal pundits who may not even support Sanders are too scared to speak up. They are so afraid that Sanders' voters won't move over to Hillary Clinton in the general that they have been tip-toeing around the truth.
And here's the truth:
First, Bernie Sanders has NO PATH to the Democratic nomination.
Second and more infuriating, Bernie Sanders and his entire team ***KNOW*** that he has no path to the Democratic nomination.
Third and most frustrating, the Corporate Media (including the so-called liberal punditry) ***ALSO KNOW*** that he has no path to the Democratic nomination. And quite frankly, they've known this since March 15th!
But Sanders is LYING to his followers.
Yeah, I said it. No more pussyfooting around. No more tip-toeing to save people's butt-hurt feelings.
I'm going to say it again so that I'm clear:
BERNIE SANDERS AND HIS ENTIRE TEAM ARE FLAT-OUT LYING TO HIS SUPPORTERS!!
Worst off, he's taking money from his supporters knowing fully well that he has no path to the Democratic nomination.
No, he will not win the most votes.
No, he will not win the most pledged delegates regardless of his shenanigans.
No, he will not convince super delegates to turn against HRC. It's not happening.
No, those RED states he won in the primary season will not suddenly turn BLUE in the general election.
NO, NO, NO!!! By every metric possible, he knows that there is no way to win the Democratic primary.
He knows this. His team knows. The Corporate Media knows this. The liberal commentators (even Stephanie Miller, Rachel Maddow, Norm Goldman, Thom Hartmann, Sam Seder and all the jerks over there on Young Turks) know this.
THEY ARE LYING TO THEIR SUPPORTERS.
Only David Axelrod has had the balls to call Sanders and his team out on this lie. He's the ONLY one who is telling the truth and the liberal punditry attacked him for it.
Why aren't we all screaming from the rooftops about these lies?????
/rant off
Kaleva
(36,307 posts)He's had to make cuts to his staff, ad buys and staged events. Many Bernie supporters already know that he has no chance and are acting accordingly (stopped donating). As for the true believers, there is nothing that can be said that will change their minds.
liberal N proud
(60,335 posts)The party still has to continue to support the process and Hillary still needs to campaign against BS. This is all money and valuable time wasted, where it could be an effort toward the General Election against Trump and the entire GOP.
The $27 that the BSers keep sending BS, is their problem, why are they not screaming about being ripped off? Because they have swallowed the hook.
riversedge
(70,239 posts)Koinos
(2,792 posts)Most of these $27 donations are going to the same rich corporations that Sanders rails against. Talk about redistribution of wealth.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)so-called Establishment that he rails against. Even his own supporters were upset that he was a the Correspondents Dinner. Not even Hillary was there. But I understand why he was there---the Corporate Media has been very kind to Sanders.
And now because of his lies, HRC is forced to spend money in states where she wouldn't have to if Sanders would accept the truth. No one suggesting that he drop out. No one's suggesting that the people of California and my next door neighbors in Washington, D.C., should be allowed to cast their votes. I have not heard one HRC supporter make these suggestions.
The problem is LYING to your supporters about having a viable path to the nomination when you know damn well that you don't. And you're making money off those lies, thereby forcing your opponent to spend unnecessary money. AND...on top of that, giving the ReThugs more ammunition to attack your opponent.
I'm just so angry about what Sanders is doing. This from a man that I once truly admired.
Koinos
(2,792 posts)The corporate media's use of "kid gloves" with Bernie is directly linked to the cash they glean from his campaign. Bernie has been outspending Hillary two-to-one or more in most states. Bernie's campaign is the true "green" party (as in greenbacks) for corporate broadcasting. So the socialist feeds the capitalist election appetite.
Things are never what they appear. The same is true of "idealistic" candidates, no matter how they market themselves.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)He didn't grow the Green Party. He didn't really create a viable grassroots coalition. And when the Green finally caught wind of this and realized that it was all about Ralph Nader and not the party, they all but chased him out of it.
The thing that has bothered me about the Sanders "revolution," is that unlike Nader, Sanders and his followers have alienated segments of the population. He himself (and his wife) wrote off voters in the South and other RED states simply because they didn't vote for him. And yes, I saw that as a subtle racist dig. But when he won RED states made of mostly white voters, he claimed to have a pathway to the nomination---knowing fully well that that is a LIE!
Rather than work within the bounds of the Democratic Party institutional rules--working to influence a change, he arrogantly alienated and created a hostile environment. For instance, he believes that after having insulted most of the Democratic Establishment, including the President of the United States, that somehow the super delegates are going to abandon ship? Some people say that he's delusional. I say he's a fucking liar because he knows damn well that super delegates aren't going to so any such thing.
Koinos
(2,792 posts)Eventually, it may become a club of one. I don't see how it is politically effective to discount whole groups of people.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,010 posts)On Mon May 16, 2016, 06:18 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
I was a Nader supporter (mostly because I live in a BLUE state), but it was the same with him.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1107&pid=134499
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Calling one of our candidates a "fucking liar" is over the top. Criticizing policy is one thing, name calling is another, both sides need to stop trashing Democrats.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon May 16, 2016, 06:22 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
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Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I was fine until he called Bernie a "fucking liar".
I would never tolerate Hillary being called that.
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Explanation: goose, gander
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No TOS violation that I can see.
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lolly
(3,248 posts)His bitterness and anger seems more like resentment than truly righteous disgust. He's mad because he didn't get invited t the party, not because other people were hurt.
His charter flight to try to hobnob with the pope made that pretty clear.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)of concern. I understand that there are Sanders supporters who have accepted the truth; however, he is still out there lying and threatening a contested convention when he knows damn well that he will not be successful. And yet, the punditry and commentators continue to move along as if he has a chance. He doesn't. But no one is telling this truth. They are walking on eggshells to spare his damned feelings.
stopbush
(24,396 posts)committed to wringing every cent out of that campaign that they can, and that means sustaining the imagined horse race for as long as possible. If Hillary has to spend some of her $ fighting Sanders, it's a bonus for the MSM's coffers.
The liberal commentators also want their $750 appearance fees for appearing as pundits on the TV networks.
They're all making $. Why kill the golden goose?
savalez
(3,517 posts)Curiously it does seem to correspond with his plummeting donations.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)running out of money--or the donations aren't as high--perhaps then we'll *finally* witness the punditry telling the truth. This, even though they've known the truth for quite some time.
Cha
(297,275 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)riversedge
(70,239 posts)mr_liberal
(1,017 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)followed his entire career. I was always a big fan. Now I can't stand the man. He disgusts me.
Koinos
(2,792 posts)The inner Sanders finally revealed himself. And the revelation was not pretty.
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)working for the democratic platform, the democratic landslide and the democratic take over of Congress....that will be HIS legacy for helping to save america from the Koch brothers, trippin Trump and the conservative destruction we would otherwise have to face.
pandr32
(11,586 posts)You point out many glaring examples of how the media is not as interested in the truth as they are ratings and the interests of their advertisers, as well as investors. This is what we get for allowing the mainstream media to become corporate owned and no longer a free press.
We also have to beware of small, seemingly independent news sources--thanks to those think tanks and dark money groups. Too many people are fooled by these sites.
We need some accountability in reporting stories. Truth needs to be valued more than spin and we should start by bringing back the Fairness Doctrine that was struck down by Reagan.
I can't think of any other way to end the political reality TV that has replaced actual news. We hardly ever hear anything outside of political drama anymore--aside from breaking mass shootings and celebrity deaths and/or scandals.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)usual, the M$M aren't doing their jobs.
But HRC supporters are NOT screamers on the whole. We prefer to keep our eyes focused on the long term and leave the screaming to the radicals.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)I just wish he would be held accountable.
People are in one breath not holding Sanders accountable. And then in the second breath, they wonder why HRC's has such high negatives. Well, DUH!! When the M$M spends all of its time demonizing HRC and walking on eggshells when it comes to Bernie, no wonder she has high negatives. Very few people are making that connection either.
Constant negative coverage = high negatives!
Koinos
(2,792 posts)Sanders' campaign has been mismanaging millions of incoming and outgoing dollars.
If he doesn't respond to their letters (the latest being 639 pages of violations), they have the authority to investigate and prosecute.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Koinos
(2,792 posts)Will Sanders take control of his own campaign and steer it clear of the abyss?
Also, has anyone heard from Tad, Jeff, or Jane recently? Maybe I missed something.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)Koinos
(2,792 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)Koinos
(2,792 posts)Fla Dem
(23,678 posts)ismnotwasm
(41,986 posts)Last edited Mon May 16, 2016, 12:13 PM - Edit history (1)
We tried to tell the Sanders people things from the beginning, things such as the economic approach was racially insensitive. Response? "You called me a racist!"
We tried to tell the revenue from the proposed Wall Street taxes was not enough to cover Sanders ambitious platform plans. Response? "You are a corporate Wall Street shill"
We tried to tell them that Sanders has not been vetted, while Hillary's whole public life is open for display and speculation. There are very legitimate criticisms of her, but, There is no "there" there. Response "You are a paid Brock operative"
I remember discussing with other Hillary supporters, not just the futility of pointing out logical inconsistencies, but why would we bother? We would we want to help the Sanders campaign?
On the other hand, I agree with you. Whatever Sanders thought to gain with this election is not happening. Trump turned it into a shit-show, the Sanders people who are zealots are right in that mix. Why collect money on a lie?
Hillary, as has been pointed out, is the only adult in the room.
Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #14)
Post removed
Koinos
(2,792 posts)Last edited Mon May 16, 2016, 04:06 PM - Edit history (1)
Underestimating the influence and voting power of African-American women in the Democratic party was especially short-sighted.
Some political historian is going to do an autopsy of the Sanders campaign and write a very long book about its rise and fall. It will read like a Shakespearean tragedy, where the protagonist's tragic faults bring him down.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)When I was undecided and even a bit after. Early on, a bunch were swarming Bravenak, who was also still undecided. I tried to point out to the one who could write in complete paragraphs and seemed most sane that Brave was practically begging him to persuade her to Sanders. I even rewrote a few of his posts to demonstrate the basic political persuasion technique of finding common ground. He said he would think about it, but the next time I saw him, he was right back to his old ways The rest called me hillbot, etc, even though it was my first post in GDP, ever and I had never made a pro-Hillary post OR anti-Sander one, either. Just criticized what a SUPPORTER said. Thin skins, that lot....
I did that a few times, even after I was for Clinton. I warned them when their deadlines were coming up in early states and offered to tell them how to do voter registration and GOTV with young voters. No one took me up on that I don't mind teaching the ones who WILL fight to fight better. In my heart, I crave unity and hope that if I teach them something now, they will come back as strong allies in the GE. And the ones who learn WILL. The others, oh well..... They need to get their little temper tantrums in check to be useful allies. Chair throwing and nasty phone mail? WTF. GOP with throw chairs back and they have more guns too, so good luck with that.
Koinos
(2,792 posts)Too bad the intended audience is hard of hearing.
Thanks for the great rant!
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)She has the right to do that and to hate him.
What's next? We can't say we hate Trump just because he will be running against someone a lot of Sanders supporters hate?
Well I hate Trump. He is a maggot of zero worth and if it gives anyone at DU a few tears then this isn't the right place for them.
Good, bad, indifferent people are different and don't have to lock step with anyone.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... and make them feel completely disillusioned for believing in something that is obviously (to us) not going to happen.
He's not being very realistic with his followers, and is likely doing more harm to his "revolution" than he realizes.
Considering what we've observed up until now (from both Bernie and his, um, "passionate" supporters,) I have mixed feelings about the fallout and likely outcome.
(Alerter: These are my personal observations and personal opinions.)
Koinos
(2,792 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)could vote, I had to educate myself on what the voting rules were. I didn't yell and scream in my entitlement, demanding that the rules be changed to accommodate me and allow me to vote.
Even when I made the mistake of voting in a primary election here in Maryland and being told that I couldn't vote--having not realized that I was a registered Independent--I was upset, but I didn't write the State Board of Elections or the MD Democratic Party demanding that they change the rules for me. No! Maryland has a closed primary. New York has a closed primary. For whatever reason, the state Democratic Party apparatus wants their primary closed--actually, for GOOD reasons!
It is therefore OUR responsibility as citizens--as voters--to find out how to register and vote.
Then...you work to change the rules to make them fairer if they're not.
If Bernie Sanders is such a revolutionary change agent, then his work should be to continue to encourage these new voters to stay engaged and work to change things. But he needs to be honest with them that change takes time; it's not an overnight process. Learn how the government works. Learn how institutions work. It's no excuse when everyone had to do the work. No one is special in this country. Everyone has a responsibility to find out how things work! Then, work to change them. Stay engaged. My guess is that Bernie is in this for himself. I want to be proven wrong, though. After he loses the primary, I want to see him encouraging voters to remain engaged and work hard for change. If he doesn't do that, then screw him. He's no different than Nader, and yes, these voters will probably not vote again.
President Obama's commencement address at Howard University a few weeks ago was OUTSTANDING because he talked about the same thing! Learn about the system. Get engaged. Vote every TWO years. Stay engaged. Work to change the system where there are deficiencies. Learn that it'll take time to achieve your goals! It was a brilliant speech!!!
Koinos
(2,792 posts)It saddens me even more when I realize that Sanders may not really care about the future, including the future of those who idolized him. He rode the wave of their anger and enthusiasm, and his inner tragic character faults have brought the whole thing to nothing. He could have been bigger than he was. He could have stirred up the noblest and most humane tendencies of his followers. He could have inspired them to work hard, to build, to create, to care. Instead, he turned them against practically every group that he has alienated himself from in the past. As Barney Frank said, Bernie alienates himself from his allies. Eventually, there is no one but Bernie. He is, has been, and -- in light of his demeanor in this primary -- will be a very lonely man. This is what anger without self-awareness does to a person.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... maybe they'll realize that it takes more than just demagoguery and promises-without-a-plan, and top-down "revolutions" just aren't realistic.
If they adjust their expectations and find a way to remain motivated without all the anger; if they allow themselves to participate on a regular basis; if they're willing to find common ground; if they're able to accept that "all-or-nothing" and "burn-it-down" is not a viable strategy; if they're willing to become active at the local and state party levels ... then maybe they find that they have the ability to have some meaningful affect on the things that are most important to them.
Or not ... who knows. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic.
Koinos
(2,792 posts)The ill effects of kool-aid can be reversed. Cult members can be deprogrammed. Anger can be managed. Loving friends and family can help.
But it is sad that all this psychological and political damage was incurred needlessly by so many young people. Their ideals were good, but their leadership was flawed. They need to learn how to achieve their ideals through old-fashioned democratic and political means. And they need a better progressive role model.
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)Most Bs'rs would rather send $27 to a zombie campaign than spend $10 on a calculator so that they can do the math.
There's a saying about a fool and his money, but I'd rather not get a hide today.
jmowreader
(50,559 posts)BSers remind me very much of sovereign citizens. I wonder how many of them are.
Fla Dem
(23,678 posts)Our words hold no sway with those infected with the Bernie fever. It's like trying to convince a spouse their partner is cheating on them. They don't want to hear the truth, and they're not going to believe their lying eyes.
I don't know how many posts I started to refute;some ludicrous pro Bernie comment, or ridiculous RW anti- HRC rant and accusations, and half way through just go, "What's the point of me wasting my time" and delete my half finished response. It's just not worth it. Words falling on deaf ears and closed minds.
The end of this primary just cannot come soon enough.
Great rant. You voiced what many of us believe.
Koinos
(2,792 posts)Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)
Turbineguy This message was self-deleted by its author.
jehop61
(1,735 posts)are you posting on a democratic site? Go away
jmowreader
(50,559 posts)Turbineguy is a good member of Hillary's group, and a fine Democrat.
sarae
(3,284 posts)I used to be on their list; I unsubscribed, but I guess they still have my phone #
Yesterday! I received this text yesterday:
Hey Sarae! It's Kelly volunteering w/ Bernie 2016. After winning IN and WV, Bernie's got momentum! Let's keep it going in NJ! Bernie needs us on the phones now talking to New Jersey voters. There's a phone bank party happening near you on Tuesday 5/17 12:00 PM. More info here: https://go.berniesanders.com/page/event/detail/gpgsb2 Can you make it?
Treant
(1,968 posts)...are you going, Sarae?
ETA: I find it incredible that they're still claiming to have momentum, at this late date, when there's no credible path to victory.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)The media complicity is amazing to me. Every story that would dominate the news cycle for a week if it were the Clintons is met with silence when it is the Sanders'.
Shit, I'm still pissed about him burning the AIDS activists who spent their own money to fly to meet with him, and he stood them up, and then wouldn't respond to their emails about it.
Gomez163
(2,039 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,340 posts)It's pathetic and sad.
still_one
(92,213 posts)On Tue May 17, 2016, 02:03 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
Bernie Sanders raising money off of false hopes - why aren't we SCREAMING about this?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1107134399
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Entire OP is an untruth and just a bid for this poster to add to an already shocking transparency page. This should be hidden.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue May 17, 2016, 02:11 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
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Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
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ismnotwasm
(41,986 posts)June can't come soon enough.
Cha
(297,275 posts)Liberal_Stalwart.. one of DU's Black Female Voices.
ism & L_S~
still_one
(92,213 posts)Cha
(297,275 posts)'cause we support Hillary Clinton for POTUS!
Mahalo, stillone~
Oh, the alerter haz a sad and is Shocked I tell ya Shocked.. that our OP has " a Shocking" transparency page..
He/she should scour the BS group like they do ours and then alert on them with their "Shocking Transparency Pages"..
Number23
(24,544 posts)very anti-Sanders now. She was once every bit as anti-Hillary as she is now anti-Sanders and his supporters are primarily the reason behind her change of heart, I think.
But every time someone says they used to be pro-Sanders and have been completely turned off by his campaign and/or supporters, some mouth breather always comes flying out of nowhere to scream "you NEVER loved him!!!1" which of course, does absolutely nothing but create even more anti-Sanders folks.
Cha
(297,275 posts)because of the way his fans on the net lose control, and start treating everyone so badly who aren't #feelingthatdamnburn.
Well, the upshot is sanders lost. So what can we learn from that?
Mahalo, 23~
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)Eventually, the bern-feelers drive all his moderate supporters and the undecideds straight into this group. Or off the site completely.
Number23
(24,544 posts)They're still in GDP hollering "be nice to us or else!!1"
Not only do they significantly overvalue their numbers and influence, they don't even understand the full reality of what we are all facing in November, including them. People like this would be terrifying if they had anything even resembling real power.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)The party and volunteers who do the work have a finite amount of time and energy to spend on turning out votes. So we can pick, either high maintenance swing voters who will turn on us any at any moment or the votes of reliable supporters in underserved and underrepresented areas who need rides, reminders, etc to get to the polls.
Remember the parable about the scorpion and the frog? Swing voters are scorpions, IMO. I'm inclined to let these particular scorpions sit on the shore instead of riding on our collective back across the river and stinging us to death 1/2 half way across so we ALL drown. That's what swing voters do, IMO. I'll pick the second group every time.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)I think if those pundits were to say something about that, it'll likely cost them a sizable chunk of their viewership. They're probably holding back out of fear of both negatively impacting their bottom line and for safety reasons. As we've seen, many BS supporters don't take criticism well. There have been plenty of prominent people who have been stalked online on their social media accounts, and getting harassed just for voicing criticisms of him and/or having a difference in opinion regarding candidates. Still, these pundits like The Young Turks and Thom make a living off of supposedly providing journalism and holding politicians accountable. They've been slacking off when it comes to holding BS accountable.