Hillary Clinton
Related: About this forumBernie sets down terms of supporting Hillary to Chuck Todd, if he loses
After watching it earlier I broke away to get some other things done on this Spring Sunday, but couldn't shake my annoyance at Bernie's comments and tone. I decided to write down how I interpreted it, so here I sit down and write.
Some might think Bernie was signaling that he would support Hillary Clinton eventually. His comments about California sounded awfully similar to his ones about New York: "I think we will win there and win big." So, again he has moved the goal post.
He restated his usual talking points as answers to Todd's questions, but finally added, under prodding by Todd, his "conditions" to support her. He presumed to speak "for the American people"--for what they want and need (he knows...right?), but then there came his real answer.
His "conditions" were basically for her to completely adopt his campaign platform from his perspective, not hers, and then she could, by doing so, earn his support. This would allow him to claim he had won--by bending "the Secretary" to his will. He could say that though he lost the nomination he forced the Democratic Party to change, and he forced "the Secretary" to adopt his more important approaches to issues for the sake of "the American people" and "the future of this country."
I am presuming she doesn't have to perpetuate his smears and lies about her, though. He might let her off there, but she will have to submit to Bernie Sanders. He then, will quit the battle after whining...er...winning!
livetohike
(22,145 posts)what he needs- not the people.
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)still_one
(92,217 posts)nini
(16,672 posts)Yep.some of his lemmings won't vote anyway out of some childish stand for their form of purity.
However, there's enough normal people left to know it's important to get out there and vote especially with the Trump fiasco on the dark side. Add to that some republicans will cross over too because of Trump.
He is so full of himself. Honestly, every day he annoys me more and more.
Cha
(297,285 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)Hillary's policies are not really all the different from his, except for being more realistic.
Why does he - with FEWER votes, FEWER delegates, LESS support generally, and with a track record of FEWER actual accomplishments during his much longer political life - think that Hillary should do anything HE says?
With every word he utters, he loses credibility as a serious candidate.
puffy socks
(1,473 posts)with a Sanders Constituency Will Shape U.S. Politics for the Next Decade post.
I hate to inform them but Bernie Sanders isnt the only one fighting for universal healthcare, better wages, getting executive pay in check, lowering college tuition costs etc.
The fact they believe they are the start of a 'revolution' which started years ago by the very people they are calling "stupid" "uninformed" and "corrupt" is noit only appalling but also ungrateful and frankly, insulting. It's a slap in the face of the generations of Progressives before them.
For example, here's Jim Webb who addressed the country in 2007 after Bush's SOTU speech who raised eyebrows over the vast difference between executive income compared with the average employees income, a stunning 400 X more at the time.
"When one looks at the health of our economy, it's almost as if we are living in two different countries. Some say that things have never been better. The stock market is at an all-time high, and so are corporate profits. But these benefits are not being fairly shared. When I graduated from college, the average corporate CEO made 20 times what the average worker did; today, it's nearly 400 times. In other words, it takes the average worker more than a year to make the money that his or her boss makes in one day.
Wages and salaries for our workers are at all-time lows as a percentage of national wealth, even though the productivity of American workers is the highest in the world. Medical costs have skyrocketed. College tuition rates are off the charts. Our manufacturing base is being dismantled and sent overseas. Good American jobs are being sent along with them.
In short, the middle class of this country, our historic backbone and our best hope for a strong society in the future, is losing its place at the table. Our workers know this, through painful experience. Our white-collar professionals are beginning to understand it, as their jobs start disappearing also. And they expect, rightly, that in this age of globalization, their government has a duty to insist that their concerns be dealt with fairly in the international marketplace.
....
And under the leadership of the new Democratic Congress, we are on our way to doing so. The House just passed a minimum wage increase, the first in ten years, and the Senate will soon follow. We've introduced a broad legislative package designed to regain the trust of the American people. We've established a tone of cooperation and consensus that extends beyond party lines. We're working to get the right things done, for the right people and for the right reasons. "
pandr32
(11,588 posts)As you make clear, Bernie Sanders is not the first to notice a declining Middle Class, rising top executive pay, rising tuition costs, a need for universal healthcare, better wages, etc.
Where Bernie is good and useful is by repeatedly discussing these issues in short form, as he does, helping indies and young people understand progressive goals. His solutions, however, don't wash. Still, if he could temper his criticisms of others who ARE NOT part of the problem, his message would be helpful. Because of his self-serving rhetoric, due to his campaign, Democrats are now finding themselves demonized by someone within the party banner, and that is a low blow--not constructive.
I appreciate your good points.
liberal N proud
(60,335 posts)Terms
Her Sister
(6,444 posts)WITH "THE SECRETARY"
pandr32
(11,588 posts)stopbush
(24,396 posts)of their surrender after WWII.
pandr32
(11,588 posts)They didn't have Bernie
DemonGoddess
(4,640 posts)He loses, he doesn't get to set the tone
pandr32
(11,588 posts)He really, really has bought into the idea that he would lead a revolution. Now he has all these independents and college kids behind him, he intends to use their support to force a situation in his favor. He has also shown himself to be extremely competitive and needs to feel victorious--he will continue to fight.
I am afraid this man will have to either be abandoned by his minions, or appeased in some way (not going to happen). It is not reasonable for him to set conditions, but he has. He obviously has an overbearing, controlling streak that gets the better of any sense of propriety he may have.
I really, really hope he can be reasoned with and give up the divisiveness and nastiness. He should behave as a leader and help his supporters transition to back Hillary Clinton as the race winds down to its obvious conclusion.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)pandr32
(11,588 posts)...if he makes trouble for Democrats and works against Hillary Clinton and the agenda she sets.
Let's hope he retires. It may be the best thing. He will be 77 years old at that time.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)Does he really think he can hold his flock together that long? What a shame he turned out to be such a selfish egomaniac.
pandr32
(11,588 posts)He keeps moving the goalpost, and he refuses to consider super-delegates in his new calculations--that California will turn the tide for him. Bizarre, delusional thinking. The problem is he is lying to "his flock" to continue to believe he still has a chance if they send money--fraud.
DawgHouse
(4,019 posts)He doesn't get to dictate how President Clinton runs her office, although honestly, it is not a surprise that a man would say this. JMHO
pandr32
(11,588 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)asuhornets
(2,405 posts)no more. When she wins she should ignore him completely. As if he doesn't exist.
pandr32
(11,588 posts)He has become more problematic then he could be helpful. I am sure Hillary will graciously commend him at the nomination for doing well, but beyond that...nothing. His supporters may already be falling away, and those that remain will be the die-hards, the ones who couldn't care less about unifying the Party.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)SharonClark
(10,014 posts)Good thing they are a small percentage of his support.
Cha
(297,285 posts)And, Hillary's not being bent to anyone's "will". she's worked too long and too hard to submit to anyone... especially burnie ******* sanders who has no accomplishments. big rallies? meh.. we saw how that worked out in New York.
She's more Progressive because she gets it done..
BlueCaliDem~
Mahalo mucho, pandr~ I like your last sentence, too.. nice touch..
pandr32
(11,588 posts)Blue Idaho
(5,049 posts)Be offered a speaking slot during the televised portion of the Democratic Convention. Now, let's talk about the terms of that happening.
pandr32
(11,588 posts)He would have to behave. Even still he could wind up acting like a kidnap victim forced to read a script to make the kidnapper look justified, so I don't know...hmmmmm
The problem is that Bernie Sanders has no loyalty to the Democrat Party--he already has proven that over and over during this campaign. This is a dilemma, for sure.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)Hasn't she been pretty much discussing some of the same issues over the years as he has? Or have I been following a different Hillary Clinton than him?
SharonClark
(10,014 posts)pandr32
(11,588 posts)...but too many newbies are hearing that Bernie Sanders is the only honest and genuine candidate, that he has been first and steady on ALL important progressive issues, and that Hillary Clinton is a changeling that cannot be believed or trusted--she is changing her positions continually in order to steal votes from Bernie Sanders.
I have had this argued to my face as a Clinton delegate in WA State.
The thing is, too, that if one poses a question about Hillary's position on something into the search bar, a whole lot of debunked garbage shows up (Hillary Clinton has received more negative press coverage than any other candidate). I have gotten tired of telling people to check it out and then they send all kinds of nasty links to me showing that Hillary Clinton is wrong, bad, evil, lying, cheating, calculating, likely to be indicted, and on and on. Their answer to positive links I send back? Propaganda funded by Wall Street and/or the establishment.
It is a mine field out there, and Sanders has been very busy taking full advantage.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)He's becoming a caricature of his "revolution".
pandr32
(11,588 posts)You've got that dead on right!
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)After everything he has said and done, and his campaign and surrogates have said and done, about the Democratic Party. Including calling them whores, suing them, saying there are election riggers.
What is he going to do in the Senate, caucus with the GOP?
No.
Will GOP pols campaign for him and donate money to him, like both Clintons have?
No.
Will the GOP give him committee seats and chairs?
No.
So, as far as I'm concerned, HE is the one who has to make amends.
The tone deafness is just shocking to me.
*would love to make this an OP, but am too tired to be attacked today!
pandr32
(11,588 posts)I honestly think that he has bought into the notion that he can and will win one way or another.. Therefore he hasn't really thought this through.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)His eyes were darting around like a mafia lawyer. I couldn't believe a word he said, and then - plucked out of thin air - that poor people have chosen not to turn out to vote?
Time to become the footnote you are, Senator Sanders (I-VT)* while you still have the status to be a footnote.
pandr32
(11,588 posts)It is often an indication of dishonesty, or total insecurity, but then Sanders loves getting in front of thousands of people and lecturing, so no apparent insecurity there.
murielm99
(30,745 posts)How silly.
As far as his pouty supporters telling us we have to be nice to them, uh, no. Most of you were never going to vote for any Democrat anyway. There are not as many of you as you think. We will not be bullied.