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LeftishBrit

(41,205 posts)
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 09:25 AM Mar 2012

An example of the sheer vileness of the right wing these days

This is an article by Cristina Odone in the Torygraph. She starts out with the valid issue that elderly people often don't get the best from the NHS - which I think is partly due to ageist prejudices, but to a large extent simply to the fact that medical administration and the training of doctors and nurses all stem from a time when far fewer people lived to be very old, and haven't caught up with modern realities.

But then she goes on to say that one should instead reduce services to the 'undeserving'.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/cristinaodone/100146838/why-should-fat-people-take-precedence-over-the-elderly-in-the-nhs/

'There are plenty of conditions, though, that are the direct result of bad habits, poor diet, and the wrong choices. These conditions range from obesity and diabetes to smoking-related diseases like emphesema. If a 20-stone, 30-something woman comes into hospital with a bad diabetic attack, does she deserve to be at the front of the queue or the back? She has chosen to stuff her face with Mars bars and Coke, and is now suffering the consequences of her choice. She cannot claim ignorance of the dangers of her diet: the Government has carpet-bombed us with health advice, from schools to GP practices. Class no longer regulates access to healthy living: everyone who can watch the telly, let alone read the magazines, knows that a high-fat diet will make you look bad and feel worse.

Does the obese 30-something lay claim to NHS services and a hospital bed when this means thousands of others will have to do without?

The septuagenarian who develops breast cancer has done nothing wrong – except grow old. The NHS has to consider that there are deserving cases and undeserving ones. Age should not be a barrier to optimum care; but bad habits should be.'

I just find this sort of stuff incredibly vicious. There is a recent tendency to be incredibly nasty to and about the chronically sick and disabled - which mostly still at least pays lipservice to the idea that deservingness is based on medical needs, not moral virtue as judged by someone else, and that it is malingerers, rather than the genuinely ill, who are their targets (pull the other one, but at least it's what they claim). But this is naked blaming-the-victim; judging people by their moral 'deservingness', not the genuineness of their needs. Is this what we should expect in the future from a semi-privatized health service?

And of course ultimately it's The Lower Classes who most need to be assessed for their deservingness! I doubt that Cristina Odone would demand that Eric Pickles, to give just one obvious example, should lose weight before he has the right to medical care. The reader 'steffanjohn' summed up a lot of her attitude:

'It's not 'hidden decision making by health managers and medics'.

The current principle is based on primarily on medical need, with cost-to-life-extension a secondary consideration on the very expensive treatments.

What Odone is advocating is that instead of basing it on medical need, we should also judge it according to a moral judgement too.

Obese people pay their taxes, and from a statistical basis it's clear that healthier people are more of a 'burden' on health services overall.

Underneath all this really is a disgust at obese people - and underneath that is a disgust at working class people.

Why else did Odone refer to 'magazines' (not newspapers), 'mars bars and Coke' (as opposed to cheese and wine) and 'telly' instead of television?

Why else is the article adorned with a picture of two women of the 'lower orders' rather than professionals, or just something non-descript class-wise?

It's because it's proles she doesn't like'


10 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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An example of the sheer vileness of the right wing these days (Original Post) LeftishBrit Mar 2012 OP
can someone explain this mactime Mar 2012 #1
Not the OP, but here's my guess at what they meant jeff47 Mar 2012 #3
Thanks mactime Mar 2012 #4
I think what is meant is that healthy people live longer and need more healthcare over a lifetime LeftishBrit Mar 2012 #5
The same principle applies to the pension debate as as to health fedsron2us Mar 2012 #7
here's a visual representation of that viciousness Enrique Mar 2012 #2
Highest on the list of "undeserving" are those who would deny OTHERS health care. Period. saras Mar 2012 #6
Never mind Odone.... T_i_B Mar 2012 #8
"now senior police adviser to the Kingdom of Bahrain"! muriel_volestrangler Mar 2012 #10
Ick. enlightenment Mar 2012 #9
 

mactime

(202 posts)
1. can someone explain this
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 09:30 AM
Mar 2012

"Obese people pay their taxes, and from a statistical basis it's clear that healthier people are more of a 'burden' on health services overall. "

I don't understand that statement.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
3. Not the OP, but here's my guess at what they meant
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 09:38 AM
Mar 2012

"Healthy" people consume more healthcare over their entire life, because they live longer. They also eventually die of something expensive-to-treat like cancer.

"Unhealthy" people die quickly of heart attacks.

LeftishBrit

(41,205 posts)
5. I think what is meant is that healthy people live longer and need more healthcare over a lifetime
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 10:39 AM
Mar 2012

Last edited Tue Mar 27, 2012, 11:13 AM - Edit history (1)

A 50-year-old unhealthy person may need more healthcare than a 50-year-old healthy person; but in 40 years time that 50-year-old healthy person may well be a 90-year-old needing lots of healthcare, while the 50-year-old unhealthy person will probably have moved on to the great NHS health centre in the sky long before then.

None of which means that it isn't best to stay healthy, or that preventive healthcare isn't preferable to treating illness once it occurs, or that the elderly should not get excellent healthcare. But treating healthcare as a matter of reward and punishment is simply vile. So is treating unhealthy 'lifestyle' simply as a matter of personal choice and bad habits, and ignoring all the environmental factors that affect health, and in particular that one of the biggest single factors in health is poverty: poor people tend to have more ill-health and not live as long as rich people. A problem that will increase with the NHS sell-offs, oops, I mean reforms.

fedsron2us

(2,863 posts)
7. The same principle applies to the pension debate as as to health
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 01:43 PM
Mar 2012

We are hearing a lot about people liveing to 100 at the moment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/17524646

Much of this propaganda is clearly eminating from a government with it eyes on stealing peoples pension contributions and giving the proceeeds to Cameron and Osbornes dining chums or bailing out western capitalisms rotten financial system.

The reality is rather different. Far from increasing exponentially life ezpectancy in the UK has increased at a steady rate of 2 years per decade since 1960. It is not a new phenomenon at all. Moreover the differences of life expectancy unerringly follow geography, income and class. Therefore those who live in Kensington and Chelsea can look forward to 10 years of extra life and pension than those living in Blackpool.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/oct/19/life-expectancy-growing-north-south-divide

In fact if there is an argument for graduating retirement ages it should be done on these criteria rather than a crude measure of age. Moreover, the simplest measure to boost the health and life expectancy of the poor would be simply to give them more money.

 

saras

(6,670 posts)
6. Highest on the list of "undeserving" are those who would deny OTHERS health care. Period.
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 11:36 AM
Mar 2012

It's really none of your business how they live their lives. They, like everyone else, have the right to choose their own values.

As they say, exercise a few hours a day, and you will live ten years longer, but you will have spent those ten years exercising. For some this is a good deal. For others it sucks - just as well spend those ten years in prison.

T_i_B

(14,738 posts)
8. Never mind Odone....
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 04:47 PM
Mar 2012

I'm just flabbbergasted that the Torygraph has got John Yates, former top officer for the Metropolitan Police heavily tainted by close links to News International to pontificate about cash for access!

Whatever next, hiring Neil Hamilton to write about brown envelopes stuffed with cash?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/9169232/Why-cash-for-access-is-not-a-job-for-Scotland-Yard.html

muriel_volestrangler

(101,318 posts)
10. "now senior police adviser to the Kingdom of Bahrain"!
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 07:49 PM
Mar 2012

The jokes write themselves. The man whose 2009 'review' of phone hacking took 8 hours before he said "nothing to see here, move along now, everyone", now saying "nothing to see here, move along now, everyone". And now doing sterling work in an authoritarian monarchy that locks up doctors and nurses for treating wounded protesters. No suspicion at all that he'll do anything for ready cash, then ...

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