Wisconsin
Related: About this forumThe efforts by Wisconsin Wave starting to leak out to us....
Thom Hartman did a piece that got my attention, other DUers are starting to talk about this. From what I understand, Wisconsin Wave may indeed have the ability to blow that election wide open if given the chance. Imo, If Wisconsin Wave is able to illuminate the election fraud we all suspect happened, the news could become something the MSM is unable to ignore.
I am strongly of the opinion that the biggest threat to our nation's democracy is the ELECTION FRAUD perpetrated by the gop. We here at the DU are well aware of these tactics but the rest of the electorate knows little if anything about this crime.
A single vote deliberately misplaced means so little in the bigger scheme of things but thousands, tens of thousands and nationally millions of votes, deliberately messed with would be an outrage to every single American voter.
Most within the electorate have heard bits or pieces of the gop election fraud, we all watched our televisions as the hanging chads were carefully scrutinized. It is highly likely, for most of the citizenry that is their only exposure to what really went on in Florida. What went on in the rest of that election, and elections after is not something most of our electorate took a careful look at. (courtesy of the mainstream media)
If only the electorate could see what the gop is doing, they would be screaming bloody murder right now and this issue should blow up bigger than baingate with the MSM. Our Democrats in Congress would be hardpressed by the electorate to investigate.....
I believe Wisconsin, specifically WISCONSIN WAVE could be the key to getting the gop election fraud going on nationwide out into the electorate's focus. We DUers can help by pushing this story right now. Talking,online, it is what we do best, bump this story, keep it updated, spread the word. Baingait is out there doing its thing on its own, the big DU can chew 
and walk at the same time. Let us watch mitt squirm while we pivot our focus: On Wisconsin.
If what I heard on Thom Hartman is accurate, the gop is about to burn those paper ballots from your election Wisconsin, thereby removing the lions share of the evidence to their crime. From what I understand there is still a precious little slice of time for Wisconsin Wave to gain access to those paper ballots.
Those of us who are just figuring out what is going on, must get this story out NOW!
WISCONSIN WAVE NEEDS SUPPORT NOW!
Click the link, learn what our fellow Americans are doing, spread the word, join the fight.
http://wisconsinwave.org/handcount
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Scuba
(53,475 posts)Domain Name:WISCONSINWAVE.ORG
Created On:01-Dec-2010
Sponsoring Registrar:Tucows Inc.
Registrant ID:tuZkFgpu0b83gmfK
Customer 0125533805
96 Mowat Ave
Toronto, ON
Liberty Tree Foundation
1202 Williamson Street, Madison, WI
(608) 257-1606 ? · libertytreefdr.org
John Nichols, Director and President
chknltl
(10,558 posts)I am unfamiliar with Mr. Nichols, Thom Hartman mentioned a name in his broadcast yesterday regarding Wisconsin Wave, he spoke highly of this person and said, (perhaps speaking to himself but he DID say it) "We need to get him on our show". I think John Nichols may have been that name.
midnight
(26,624 posts)chknltl
(10,558 posts)It focuses on the GOP history of spreading the right to vote to those who did not then have the right, freed slaves; landless men; women and more recently their efforts in lowering the age limit of the electorate to 18. This is of course in direct contrast to what the GOP is currently up to. A fascinating article by Nichols to say the least.
http://m.host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/column/john_nichols/john-nichols-voter-id-laws-insult-gop-s-better-angels/article_f45dd63a-c7b0-11e1-98da-001a4bcf887a.html
This piece alone would make a great read here in the DU...if nobody else posts one I think I would like to do so.
midnight
(26,624 posts)
dragonlady
(3,577 posts)John Nichols is a superb speaker and astute commentator. This is a great chance to hear him.
The 1890s. Like the rest of the country, Wisconsin was in the grip of a monied plutocracy. Robert M. LaFollette boldly started a movement to take back his state, which would lead to a total transformation of Wisconsin politics and its economy by the turn of the century. Wisconsin would go on to become a laboratory for many of the programs Americans enjoy today.
Bob Lafollette faced tough odds. John Nichols will talk about how Fighting Bob did it and the lessons we can learn today.
July 22
Doors open at 6 pm, program at 6:30.
Plymouth Church, 2717 E. Hampshire Ave., Milwaukee
mojowork_n
(2,354 posts)Could be a really interesting talk. Invite your friends.
midnight
(26,624 posts)I think the election in Wisconsin was rigged for Scott Walker and that out of state Koch money and corruption by the GOP and the venders of the machines (the two party uncertified outfit running out of a strip mall in MInnesota) ... I also read the link you provided... here is a link to more info I posted on Thomhartmans community blog... I put up several U-tube videos on the subject I had found. you can find all my postings in my "overturn" profile on that site. but here are a few postings I had Made.
http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/overturn/blog/2012/07/corruption-vote-rigging-software
http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/overturn/blog/2012/07/still-voting-mitt-romney
**********************************************************************************
Voting Machine Fraud Nation Wide... Wisconsin included... u-tube videos the link below...
http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/overturn/blog/2012/07/voting-machine-fraud-nation-wide-wisconsin-included-u-tube-videos
***********************************************************************************
Scuba
(53,475 posts)itsrigged
(116 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)... I had seen a clip from it previously, but never the entire thing. Bravo to Bev and her colleagues; they are true American patriots.
I'm forwarding to many. Again, thanks.
dragonlady
(3,577 posts)They are one of the groups sponsoring a weekend of seminars in Milwaukee on the Move to Amend project to amend the Constitution and counter Citizens United. More info here:
https://movetoamend.org/events/milwaukee-wi-move-amend-midwest-regional-convergence
Scuba
(53,475 posts)dragonlady
(3,577 posts)This is a working class suburb of Milwaukee. The organizers worked incredibly hard to get signatures to get it on the ballot and promote it, and that work paid off. There may be other places in Wisconsin that have also passed the referendum, and if so I hope they will be added here.
Frosty1
(1,823 posts)to the Hartman show that is being referred to in this thread?
Please?
chknltl
(10,558 posts)First off I did a quick search over at Thom's site and found nothing....yet. He oftentimes posts his major stories here in the DU the next day....that would be today.
Second, a quick Google search shows that others out there are starting to reference that very radio broadcast. I will keep digging and maybe find a link to the actual show for you. My take from his show inspired this OP. Thom is MUCH MUCH BETTER than I at this...for now, visit the Wisconsin Wave link I posted in the OP, get informed as to what they are doing...help out if you can. When I find anything out from The Thom Hartman Show(s) yesterday broadcast on this topic I will post it.
n/t
chknltl
(10,558 posts)I am using a 'smart' phone for my sole source of internet access. I can not open and listen to most videos with this method. That said, this video was posted by fellow DUer Hue, it has no transcript but I believe it to be the very radio broadcast that inspired my OP. Best I can do with my limitations.
itsrigged
(116 posts)
http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/overturn/blog/2012/07/corruption-vote-rigging-software
http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/overturn/blog/2012/07/voting-machine-fraud-nation-wide-wisconsin-included-u-tube-videos
http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/overturn/blog/2012/07/still-voting-mitt-romney
Blue Owl
(50,427 posts)What exactly would stop them from cheating and stealing when it comes to elections and our voting process?
Nothing.
chknltl
(10,558 posts)When it comes to the electorate,I don't care if you are a republican, democrat or independent, this is OUR DEMOCRACY that is being attacked here and most Americans will fight for it.
History backs what I say, this one concept, America's democracy, it is worth dieing for.
In this one thing-We The People share a common enemy. If enough of of the citizenry becomes fully aware of what is going on, I believe a tipping point will occur where things snowball-where when enough talk is going on the media will be forced to cover this story, and stories like this. The gop will be forced out into the light of day with their crimes against the voters. Our leaders will be forced to jump in with actual investigations.
There is an election on, which Democrat wouldn't want to get out in front of this parade? Naturally the bought and paid for ones will scurry for cover but not all of them are so corrupted! If my thinking is right, if enough public outrage is generated, the President would be wise to step in too. Eric Holder could become the gop fraudsters worst nightmare!
and all this sparked by Wisconsin, and what WISCONSIN WAVE may be about to uncover. Let's do what we can to give Wisconsin Wave the ability to continue on with their research. Then let us blow the embers from that research into a fire.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)chknltl
(10,558 posts)Dear God I wish it could have aided Wisconsin Wave more. All I can offer is my thoughts, my words-all put out on the Big DU via a smart phone with a broken face plate. Like the real chicken little, i fear it is too little too late.
Everyone here seems more occupied with baingate. I can not begrudge them this victory in slow motion, we have had so few real victories this past decade. The Romney meltdown has me grinning too.
That said, deep inside me, I can not escape thinking that all this hyper attention on romney the clown, good though it feels, is a deliberate distraction keeping us from seeing some things they desperately don't want us looking at.
Wisconsin Wave may indeed be uncovering one of the very items they don't want us looking at. I just wish I could have done more.
itsrigged
(116 posts)I think the election in Wisconsin was rigged for Scott Walker and that out of state Koch money and corruption by the GOP and the venders of the machines (the two party uncertified outfit running out of a strip mall in MInnesota) ... I also read the link you provided... here is a link to more info I posted on Thomhartmans community blog... I put up several U-tube videos on the subject I had found. you can find all my postings in my "overturn" profile on that site. but here are a few postings I had Made.
http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/overturn/blog/2012/07/corruption-vote-rigging-software
http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/overturn/blog/2012/07/still-voting-mitt-romney
**********************************************************************************
Voting Machine Fraud Nation Wide... Wisconsin included... u-tube videos the link below...
http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/overturn/blog/2012/07/voting-machine-fraud-nation-wide-wisconsin-included-u-tube-videos
***********************************************************************************
itsrigged
(116 posts)I have a simple solution...
1. Everyone must check in at the front desk with Id as proof of residing in that district and being registered to vote.
2. once checked in as having come to voted in a ledger, they then exit a choice of which exit door to walk through to cast a vote which they see increment as they leave by one and only one vote... door A or door B being the two exit doors for casting the presidential vote...
3. Each door would have an optic sensor that would pulse a count to a physical hard count meter... it would make things quicker... walk in, check in, walk out... vote casted...
4. Door A would be the Democratic president vote counter, door B the Republican.
5. Then the record would be a hard meter copy that could be read at all polling places Made public in the news paper from all polling places for verification along with a tally...
Simple electronics costing pennies on the dollar for what was spent on all these rig-gable voting machines that take a simple solution like mine and complicate the hell out of it.
My solution would be fool proof with no way to rig an election as anyone trying to vote a second time would be caught by the voter id as having already voted in that district and, if they tried to vote in another, the id would flag them as not voting in the right district...
roody
(10,849 posts)chknltl
(10,558 posts)I believe they have the authority to do this per Wisconsin election regulations. It would not be an admission of guilt. Otoh, I believe those same regulations grant the citizenry the right to inspect those same ballots, which is what Wisconsin Wave is doing.
mojowork_n
(2,354 posts)...the "Random Draw Procedure for Voting System Audit"
This page is still up at the GAB's (Government Accountability Board) website:
http://gab.wi.gov/node/1409
It shows the process that was used to perform a "r a n d o m" control of
vote-tabulating machine accuracy, for an election that was held in 2010.
I had made the assumption that something similar would need to be done this year
for the gubernatorial recall election.
But clicking the link for GAB > Clerks > Guidance on Election Processes
...instead brings up this link, issued TODAY:
http://gab.wi.gov/clerks/guidance/election-material-destruction
It's a PDF that shows when destruction of paper ballots can start to take
place -- this coming Monday, the 23rd of July.
It looks like the Government Accountability Board is going straight from the Certification
of the Election (already completed) to the last step in the voting process....
GETTING RID OF THE EVIDENCE.
Without any sort of verification of the "Voting System Process," as had been
performed in 2010. (As flawed as the system for identifying the voting districts
to be audited had seemed to be, in 2010.)
chknltl
(10,558 posts)It appears we failed again..... If possible, Is there anything we can take from this? Any facts or data gleaned from the efforts of Wisconsin Wave perhaps? Wisconsin was a significant battle in this war to stop election fraud. We need to take whatever evidence, facts and data we can from this and add it to the ever growing database to be used in the bigger struggle.
mojowork_n
(2,354 posts)This is all of it:
Destruction of Materials
Posted in
Elections
Date:
July 20, 2012
Wisconsin Statutes dictate when election materials can be destroyed in 7.23.
Please consult the chart attached below:
http://gab.wi.gov/sites/default/files/publication/65/destruction_schedule_7_20_12_pdf_19742.pdf
....That's it.
It's in the "County Clerks" > "Guidance on Election Processes" part of the GAB website ---- but
there are more sections there, I haven't gone through all of them.
But that "random audit for voting systems verification' procedure, or whatever it was called
(last used in November, 2010?), seems to be missing.
.....I don't know what's to be "learned" but I hope someone alerts officers of whatever court
might have jurisdiction, or the ability to step in and act.
Not holding my breath on that.
chknltl
(10,558 posts)mojowork_n
(2,354 posts)But it's time for me to catch a bus to go home.
If you want to cut and paste some of the stuff I posted
in this thread, you might need to click some of the links
in new tabs, to be able to paste them in. (Can't remember.)
...I do have a feeling that smarter, and hopefully better
connected folks are already working on this. We're just
tracking the story in our own little parallel dimension,
here on DU, but it will unfold on it's own.
chknltl
(10,558 posts)There is practice for an airshow going on over my house right now, the Airforce Thunderbirds are are making much of that noise. I think. I am gonna catch a break and go outside to watch. Will cut and paste later, thanks.
itsrigged
(116 posts)They are stone walling the request to take any action along with the DOJ as Walker has Attorney General Van Hollon in his back pocket too... My understanding of what has been reported in the attempt to acquire elections results both paper ballot wise and memory cards from control central that is being ignored by all parties is that all parties are in bed together and they know that if they delay and refuse to provide the information freely and use cost as a reason not to comply it is only a delay tactic to give them time to destroy the evidence of any election rigging...
That is why the link was replaced with a pdf document to let you know their intent is to destroy the evidence of fraud before anyone can get their hands on it… are we going to wait till its to late or are we going to do what Bev Harris did to acquire those records before they are destroyed?
Walker and the Attorney General are more or less giving us the middle finger after stealing the election. Instead of a tea party we need a sledgehammer party and smash all the voting machines if they destroy the evidence that would prove the ones who enforce the law are the ones behind the violating of it...
What is needed is a congressional investigation and the FBI needs to get involved... i.e., at the national level not State... yes there may even be corruption at the state level in the FBI... These bastards are going to keep playing these games till a real civil war breaks out along with a national one.
mojowork_n
(2,354 posts)I mean as far as it being 'time for civil war.'
They're bastards, yes, but when criminals get away
with starting/inciting civil wars -- that's when they've
won -- and everyone else loses. (My parents went
through that, and my cousins 2 generations later,
and the ripples and disasters and personal, individual
tragedies take forever to fade away...)
But I'll settle for their crimes being exposed. Whether
or not it leads to immediate consequences, penalties,
or anyone being frog-marched to jail -- I can wait.
Just knowing who did what, how, and having some
sort of validation that it's not all "eff'n conspiracy
theory," that would be enough.
So it doesn't happen again in November, and the
penalties catch up to them eventually. "Swift"
justice isn't always the best.
chknltl
(10,558 posts)We can't yet grab our sledgehammers...if we do so now, WE become the badguys. As much as we wish it to be otherwise, democracy is a slow process. We fight the same fight, and I am honored to fight alongside you.
INFORMATION is the coin of the realm in any democracy, keep spreading what you learn here. We are just pebbles cast out on a pond, our information the ripples spread out from our impact. When enough of us are out there creating ripples, then those ripples become the tidal wave of change.
I dunno, maybe you are the one that has it right, maybe the time for the big splash is now. Truth be told, if one of our progressive leaders, say an Allen Greyson or a Bernie Sanders were to grab a sledghammer and start busting up electronic tabulators and hackable voting machines, many here, myself included would join that parade.
So take my advice how you wish, I side with fellow DUer mojo's wisdom in this and will fight this war, one bullet at a time.
itsrigged
(116 posts)But,
Even then, if the machine was rigged the paper taped roll could have been altered to match the rigged data stored on the memory cards... you need to view Bes "hacking democracy" documentary from start to finish... its over an hour... it is the full length that HBO aired a while back to understand how even the optic scanners as well as the touch screen machines can be rigged to miss-read the inputs and change a predetermined percentage of votes cast or optically read by a scanner to automatically adjust the reported or printed results to give a desired result and reflect the winner to of won by a pre determined percentage of the total votes cast...
I guess Bev Harris got some negative support and or attacks on what she was earlier trying to get across prior to the movie documentary HBO aired now on U-tube... I gave a link to it further up the thread.
I posted this in Places in MN and DM gave me a little history on Bev but now are giving support... must of seen her HBO full length movie now on u-tube that enabled them to consider taking it more seriously and that Bev Harris was right all along on the seriousness of these big corporate venders selling voting machines that they or others could at anytime rig to control elections... below is was my reply on that Minnesota thread.
Thanks for the info, I also read the reply post giving me some history on the subject, as I am new to this social media site and did not know that Bev Harris had been getting into arguments regarding probable attacks on what she posted...
After reading it I concluded that she might of been trying to get the word out to inform people of what she had been discovering by whatever means possible to try and educate the voter why these machines cannot be trusted. It is obvious that unless you have a lot of money, you are not going to get much air time on any of the major television stations and many people do not read the daily paper...
I guess the greatest risk to America is for its citizens to remain ignorant. I know the corruption is deep in the gaming industry... you see it in the bars with the illegal video pokers and 8 liners... In fact, I was a technician for a game operator that supplied some of the bars in Wisconsin and I know that they are being used just as they are in the casinos.
Those machines in the bars can have their percentage of payout changed anytime by the operator by just flipping a few dip switches say at anytime of servicing or collecting... they have meters that record the amount of money going into the machine and they meter how much was knocked off or redeemed.... sure they do not have any obvious hopper to spit back coins but they all have that option to have a hopper added... the way they first worked was they had a so called knock off button usually on the back side of the machine... when a patron was ready to cash in, they would motion the bar tender who would witness the amount they had won, note it and then push the button to clear it and then pay them...
Well, to make things easier, Many of the machines have been fitted with a printer and players just print a redemption ticket and give it to the bar tender to collect their winnings... some of them that are paranoid about others witnessing this transaction have set some rules... some of them tell them to come back later or the next day and the money "cash" is put in an envelope so that when they are given it in the presents of other customers that may not know what is going on have no idea that that envelope is a cash payment for what was won on the machine.
In Wisconsin Governor Doyle (before Scott Walker) was trying to get these banned and out of the bars to limit the expansion of gambling. He almost succeeded by threatening to have the police confiscate them as illegal contraband if the machines were not out of the bars in X number of days as was printed in the Wisconsin State Journal at the time... the machines were pulled out of the bars as they were several times before for periods of times due to other threats of enforcement due to complaints prior to the ones leading up to the last ditch effort by Doyle to ban them from the bars and what happened is this; The gaming industry WAMO got together with the tavern league and deceived and lied about the machine claiming it was not a gambling device since the machine itself did not spit out any money like the ones in the casinos with hoppers... they won the court battle government leaders bought it hook line and sinker and changed the law from a felony to a mist meaner and legalized the machine for bars with a limit of only 6 machines per bar as the number not to be exceeded.
The gambling still goes on in the bars and government looks the other way and the new mist meaner laws now on the books are not enforced.... the law being that if anyone is caught gambling on these machines where in payments are being made to them by the personnel at the bar that they would be hit with a $500 fine per occurrence and per machine yet not risk loosing their liquor license as the faced before the new law that was passed which enabled the machines to be placed back into the bars after having had to of been pulled from all the bars as by the order of Governor Doyle...
The funny thing is many of these machines have had printers added that print out a paper trail of redemptive payout tickets which get redeemed just like the ones in the casinos... that is, the casinos (many of them) have disabled the hoppers and they no longer spit out coins or tokens for redemption to cash... instead, they print out a ticket which gets redeemed by the cashier... The same thing is going on with the voting machines... venders have sold their shit to ignorant naive county officials for the counting of the votes so as to do them this big favor in lightening their load of having to periodically count the peoples paper ballots as they had been doing with no complaints right on up to the advent of the machine that can screw you was offered as an option to consider by those that wanted to make a lot of money selling us shit we did not need for as often as a count was needed that had been working for hundreds of years...
After getting rich of the sale of them, they became corrupt... surprise surprise surprise... now that the seeds had been planted as in like manner by Monsanto, the sickle is being sharpened for to gather the clusters of the vine to reap the harvest of what in the mine of the controllers at control central stand to gain in exchange for rigging elections form those big spenders who line their pockets with super pack dollars to legislate favors... even nowadays from the bench... the same ones that threatened Fox New what would happen if they did or did not air the Monsanto report as they themselves dictate it should be re-written...
Rupert Murdock couldn't risk loosing all those advertising dollars now could he.... that is why citizens united is supported by the major news media stations as they look forward not to election time as it means mega dollars in political ad snippets from supper packs so why should they object and the rent is made worse by the blind following the blind for it is the blind that elect the blind as to the truth of what is going on since these are the ones that don't give a rats ass as to who and how many shall suffer as a result of all the pigs feeding at the troth... anything else I might add at this time I've reserved the right to hold till as such time requires till a little action produces something further to act upon.
eowyn_of_rohan
(5,858 posts)There will be no evidence except circumstantial. And while Command Central does sell and service opscans in Wisconsin, they are more well known for their offers to trade two AVC Edge touchscreen machines for one Optech Insight opscan .
eowyn_of_rohan
(5,858 posts)We collected nearly a million signatures to recall Walker with volunteer citizens paying their own gas money, buying their own pens, etc.
What in the world does WAVE need money for in this situation? They are recruiting , once again, citizen volunteers who are doing all this work at their own expense.
dragonlady
(3,577 posts)In fairness, the counties will go through a lot of work in responding to the requests and monitoring the counting.
eowyn_of_rohan
(5,858 posts)and circumvent that expense. I dont know how many clerks will be actually charging inspectors for their time or labor after the GAB sent out their "urgent" letter but that might be a concern.
itsrigged
(116 posts)Like the ones that gathered the signatures for the petition and have them go to the polling places and ask to see them in person verses asking for copies and then take pictures of them with cameras or say we want to count them ourselves and that we have a right to view them by law before they are destroyed as the GAB would like have done before any evidence of a stolen election can surface...
That is, demand to see them and view them for good reason... i.e., Abnormal amount of abnormalities and, out of state command central not complying with voter machine regulation laws while having offered two free touch screen for every one they wanted to replace freely at no expense to the counties or 46 regions they serviced before the recall election.??? And using two memory cards??? A second one just before election to so call test the machine when the first may of already loaded a virus... or visa versa... with no way to certify the machines were not rigged prior to voting... and that the argument that it will cost too much as an excuse not to comply with an open records request to inspect the memory cards or signed off poll tapes??? And they getting away with saying “just trust us”… We need to tell them “in God we trust” and you’re not God so hand over the memory cards and signed poll tapes as we will cover the cost and do our own copying and inspection of what it is you yourselves claim you counted….
itsrigged
(116 posts)Mitt Romney caught on "hidden camera" below is the U-tube video
It happens when the radio station takes a break.. he thinks he because he is off the air he is not being recorded and speaks freely in the room while off air...
listen to what he says and compare it to what Tricia Erickson says on this pod cast http://67.36.84.226/crosstalk2/ct120118.mp3
on how there is a reason why Mitt Romney is Called a Flip-Flopper
&feature=player_embedded
He believes he can be all things to all people and that he will become a God and rule the new world order as instructed by the great profit and the Mormon Church... Listen to the pod cast of a former Mormon bishops daughter who spills the beans on Mormom Mitt and why you cannot believe a word that comes out of this mans mouth...
She states He believes Mitt believes he will become a God and overthrow the Nations of the world. You must listen to this pod cast
And, that his goal was always to become president of the United States... He knew that to do this, he would have to get a governorship under his belt aside from becoming a senator... to do this in Massachusetts he promised the log cabin republicans that if they would support him and help him get elected, he would look the other way on same sex marriage. He was elected and was thus the father of gay marriage in America… that is, she claims he illegally institutionalized same sex marriage in Massachusetts and it seems he profited from it too... She says there is not one law legislated in the Massachusetts books to legalize gay marriage…
She says that there are more Mormons per capita area in government positions in Washington DC than any other religion… She says they have an employment agency in Washington DC to usher in Mormons into positions in the government there..
The Mormon Church believes that Mitt Romney will bring the kingdom of god if elected…
to learn more about the above windows media player audio link, follow this link. http://www.vcyamerica.org/blog/2012/01/18/the-mormon-church-vs-the-presidency
&feature=player_embedded
&feature=player_embedded
The above audio was not recorded very loud... to hear it you will have to turn your volume all the way up on this one
