Wow! Game of Thrones... stunning tonight.

[trumad]

Never saw that coming.

[WonderGrunion]

1. Absolutely brutal

I knew it was coming because of the books and was still stunned by the brutality of the scene.

I applaud the decision to not play music over the credits this week and forcing the audience to accept everything they just saw.

[Fuddnik]

2. Totally unexpected.

No music reminded me of "The Soprano's" ending.

[Wraith20878]

3. Read the books

So I knew exactly what was coming, didn't make it any easier to watch though

[Ilsa]

12. I have a spoiler-type question ...

Was the uncle who had to marry the Frey girl murdered as well? Was the girl not even a Frey daughter?
Or is he to be a new son-in-law for Frey to control?

[TacoD]

14. Reply

Neither Edmure or "Blackfish" were shown onscreen getting killed. Blackfish's potty break was fortuitously timed. Not sure about the girl.

[Ilsa]

15. Thank you! And in the book? nt

[TacoD]

16. Haven't read 'em (nt)

[JoDog]

17. In the books

SPOILER WARNING!





Roslin IS a true Frey. Edmure does survive his wedding reception. There were actually 2 groups of "musicians" at the wedding (None of whom were actually musicians. That was made clear in the book. They play loudly and terribly all night. "Rains of Castermere" is the only song they get right.) The ones in the dining room kill most of the Stark/Tully party. A second group is outside the bridal suite. They play very loudly to drown out any screams coming from the dining hall. That, combined with Edmure concentrating on his, um, "marital duty", plus some more wine, lead to Edmure having no idea what happened until the next morning. He awakes to find his sister and king slaughtered, along with thousands of soldiers. Frey wanted to keep Edmure alive as both a prisoner for the Lannisters and a prize for himself; his new son-in-law represents everything that bitter, disgusting man has grasped at all his life.

In the books, Brynden Tully (Uncle Blackfish) did not attend the Red Wedding. Robb appointed him to stay at Riverrun while Edmure (now lord of that castle after the death of his father) went to The Twins to get married. After the death of Robb, Blackfish vows to hold Riverrun for as long as possible.

[Ilsa]

18. Thank you! That answers alot

Of my questions. I figured Frey would keep Edmure on a tight leash, but I didn't realize until that moment when Robb is killed, that Frey had made an arrangement with the Lannisters. Nor did I know that Edmure's sister was murdered. I figured that Frey would seduce Edmure with power, but now his father and sister are dead.

I'm somewhat surprised that Robb didn't suspect something like this from Frey. He vastly underestimated the degree of insult and revenge from Frey, even though his mother warned him.

[JoDog]

19. The families in this story get tangled

because there are so many characters...

Edmure Tully has 2 sisters. Catelyn Stark is one of them. She was born Catelyn Tully. The other is Lysa Tully Arryin (That will become important next season).

The intermarriage of the aristocratic families turns political struggles into family fights. This was true of many wars in Europe up into the 20th century. A history prof of mine called WWI "A family squabble with heavy guns and chemical weapons".

If you google "Game of Thrones family tree" you can find some diagrams, but be warned, the pages may have spoilers.

Glad I could help out!

[Ilsa]

20. I may do that! Thank you! nt

[Wraith20878]

23. One thing that the Show hinted at

But did not do a good job of explaining was the idea of "Guest Right." In the beginning of the Episode Robb and his group (before his apology) eat bread and salt. This was supposed to symbolize that they had come under Lord Frey's protection, and that so long as they were under his roof, he would be honor bound to keep them from harm. This was a religious tradition that went back for centuries in Westeros. It also came in handy when two factions had been at war and were trying to make peace, that there could be a guarantee that no violence would occur. Catelyn was convinced that it was a way to guarantee their safety. We've seen how well that worked out.

The 'Red Wedding ends up shocking all of Westeros. No more can visitors to another lords hall count on "Guest Right" for protection. The Frey's become an almost cursed house among the "small folk," (peasants,) who see the violation of Guest Right as an even more of an unforgivable sin than betraying your liege lord.

[Iggo]

4. I live with two people who watch the show but haven't read the books.

Man, it was hard to sit on this info.

[Wraith20878]

5. true that

Have a friend who is supposed to text me after the episode is over. Told him something epic is happening, and nothing else.

[WCGreen]

6. That was brutal and it could have been worse...

Arya barely made it out.

I just started to read the novels and so I guess I wasn't expecting so many Starks to be gone all at once.

I have been really thinking the Mother of Dragons will be the ultimate winner.

[davidwparker]

7. this is my hope too. it was her family who was

deposed originally and I like the against-all-odds chances of her getting it back. now that the Starks are gone, I hope the Mother of Dragons takes it all.

[Ilsa]

10. Me too. She's anti-slavery and tough and

Very smart in her strategies, such as in getting the Unsullied.

I hope something dreadful happens to Walder Frey, not just for this, but for his attitude towards his wives.

[TacoD]

13. Haven't read the books, but

I don't think Daenerys will end up on the Iron Throne; I just think that would be too obvious. I bet she dies in one of the climactic scenes of the entire series. My money is on Arya, Rickon or Gendry ending up on the Iron Throne.

[dionysus]

21. not Jon Snow?

[Silver Gaia]

8. Yeah... shocking ending to this episode!

I haven't read the books, either, so was definitely NOT expecting it. I thought something was up (and so did Cate) when they shut and barred those doors, but did NOT expect it to turn out the way it did. I'm still reeling... I'd have to say this was my least favorite episode.

[maddezmom]

9. Watching now and it was a shocker

[JoDog]

22. Please allow this reader to offer some perspective

After GoT began on TV, I read the "A Song of Ice and Fire" books by George RR Martin that the series is based on. I have read all 5 published novels.

I have heard a lot of GoT viewers pledging to not watch the season finale or any GoT eps again after the Red Wedding. IMHO, if you love the show, this would be a mistake. At least watch next week. If they do what I think they will, there will be a twist even BIGGER than the Red Wedding, probably in the last minute, maybe in the last shot. I believe it will be worth your time.

About the RW itself...it has been debated since the written version arrived in 2000 in "A Storm of Swords", book 3 in ASoIaF. Why did Martin put it in there? What does it mean?

Martin's story is about the game, not about the players. Unfortunately, Robb Stark, like his father, is bad at playing this particular game. He is a good person with incredible qualities--honor, honesty, loyalty. But blind allegiance to those values cannot keep and hold the throne. Just like Ned Stark, Robb trusted too many people, and some of them were the wrong people. Robb made the mistake of listening to his heart rather than trusting his mother--who was born and raised in the politics of The Riverlands--when it came to his marriage. He did the "just" thing by executing Lord Karstark and lost half his army--rather than listen to his mother, uncle and great-uncle. He trusted honor and the ancient laws of civilization rather than good sense and took his entire family to The Twins--and all of them died.

On the other hand, we have Joffrey, who is all mistrust and brutality with no honor at all. Soon, we will see that Martin does not endorse that path either. The answer seems to be a person who can tell when to be ruthless and when it is OK to act with honor. Some fans (including myself) think we are getting small hints about which character may have the right mix.

So, why take House Stark out in such a brutal manner rather than on a battlefield? 1. To show exactly how broken society in Westeros is right now. Ancient rules that have served for thousands of years are being trashed for chaos. 2. Remember, the Lannisters think that Bran, Rickon and Arya also are dead. Which means that as far as they are concerned, there is only 1 heir to Winterfell left: Sansa. This changes the game.

[Ilsa]

24. Great analysis! As brutal as it

was, I can't be angry at the writers or author.

[sandraflower02]

25. Wow! Game of Thrones... stunning tonight.

Yeah it was really awesome !!!! I love this show...because fantasy shows are favourite ones

[hrmjustin]

26. Welcome to DU my friend!