Hello Socialist Progressives

[marym625]

I just want to ask a little about this group.

I have subscribed to a few groups on DU but I don't know anything about actually joining one. Is there something that has to be done to join? Or just don't do anything to be kicked out?

Secondly, I was looking for a place where people can discuss actual progressive ideas, etc, without having an alert or being dogged. Somewhere that people can admit that there are problems instead of the "how dare you criticize our fearless leader who does no wrong!?" Somewhere that the "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality doesn't exist. You know, very similar to the, "if you don't support our illegal war, you're a traitor" crap.

I hope I am not violating any rules with this post. I did check them out. If I did, my apologies.

Thanks for reading.

[mndemsocialist]

1. Welcome!

I think that you would be welcome here!

[marym625]

2. Thank you!

Yeah! So happy! Looking forward to actual discussions. Can't believe I missed this group for so long!

UP THE REBELS!

[socialist_n_TN]

3. Hello marym625 and welcome to SP, our little "Classic Red" cornor of DU.......

If you've read the rules for posting here, don't worry about it, just post away. The biggest thing in Socialist Progressives group is to argue the ISSUE, rather than the personality. It's a rare thing, but here the hosts are made up of Marxist-Leninists (aka Stalinists), Bolshevik-Leninists (aka Trotskyists), unaffiliated Marxists, and anarchists, so it's a pretty diverse leftist group. To keep the peace, we have to have the rules about arguing personalities, but issues are fair game.

As to joining, there's a "button" right under the title of the group on the main page that says "Subscribe to this group" or something to that effect. Hit that button and you're a "card carrying" member of Socialist Progressives group on DU.

[marym625]

4. Cool!

I haven't been a "card carrying member" of a socialist group before.

Thanks for the welcome!

[Doctor_J]

5. I'm not even an actual socialist. I would prefer a blended economy

with guaranteed living wage, paid time off, single payer healthcare, and guaranteed education for those who want it. Of course that puts me far to the left of anyone in the ruling class, all of whom would call me a socialist. But I don't want the fed making cars or computers or the bread I make my sandwiches out of. Welcome!

[marym625]

9. Thank you!

I would say we share the same ideals. Sort of what Democrats used to be.

[yallerdawg]

6. A clear Utopian vision from Howard Zinn.

When we are ready...

The society's levers of powers would have to be taken away from those whose drives have led to the present state-the giant corporations, the military, and their politician collaborators. We would need-by a coordinated effort of local groups all over the country-to reconstruct the economy for both efficiency and justice, producing in a cooperative way what people need most. We would start on our neighborhoods, our cities, our workplaces. Work of some kind would be needed by everyone, including people now kept out of the work force-children, old people, "handicapped" people. Society could use the enormous energy now idle, the skills and talents now unused. Everyone could share the routine but necessary jobs for a few hours a day, and leave most of the time free for enjoyment, creativity, labors of love, and yet produce enough for an equal and ample distribution of goods. Certain basic things would be abundant enough to be taken out of the money system and be available-free-to everyone: food, housing, health care, education, transportation.

The great problem would be to work out a way of accomplishing this without a centralized bureaucracy, using not the incentives of prison and punishment, but those incentives of cooperation which spring from natural human desires, which in the past have been used by the state in times of war, but also by social movements that gave hints of how people might behave in different conditions. Decisions would be made by small groups of people in their workplaces, their neighborhoods-a network of cooperatives, in communication with one another, a neighborly socialism avoiding the class hierarchies of capitalism and the harsh dictatorships that have taken the name "socialist."

People in time, in friendly communities, might create a new, diversified, nonviolent culture, in which all forms of personal and group expression would be possible. Men and women, black and white, old and young, could then cherish their differences as positive attributes, not as reasons for domination. New values of cooperation and freedom might then show up in the relations of people, the upbringing of children.

[marym625]

10. I like it

I have always thought that some type of duty to community should be a normal part of life. Similar to the peace Corp but for your own community.

The only thing I completely disagree with is putting children to work. The only responsibilities a child should be saddled with are education and being a kid. IMHO.

[yallerdawg]

14. Of course no one would want child exploitation.

Today, the labor force is exclusionary, segregated, production/profit driven. Education is used to maintain the status quo and deliver a product to the labor market. If we all own the means of production and share the product, we would not design labor systems which exclude anyone. We would have places for our children, our elders, disabled - anyone who has been excluded should be able to participate to their ability, to be with us.

Likewise, education, leisure, playtime would not be exclusionary, either. We would not be a work/consumer-based society, but a people-based society.

We wouldn't grind up the people to serve the elites, or pick and chose who has value based on profitability, and when used up spit them out with some charitable stipend the ruling class continues to deem excessive as 'the surplus' cuts into their profits.

We have to imagine this new world.

We have to see it is possible.

We have to figure out how we can get there.

Come on with us!

[salimbag]

15. Putting children to work

I agree with this, putting children to work sounds coercive. However, the voluntary participation in the work of the home/community is a good experience. I worked in my neighborhood, and on various farms, while growing up in the 50's. Work allowed me to earn money, and became an important part of my education. I did not work in a factory for 12 hrs/day. There was plenty of time for school and play.

[TBF]

7. Welcome -

I am probably more anarchist than anything at heart - but believe we do need community and cooperation to exist on this planet. Personally, I think that would work a lot better without capitalism. I like reading about experiments like the Paris Commune and the dreams of visionaries who see a world without profit as the goal (Venus project for example interests me - https://www.thevenusproject.com/en/).

I'm ok with voting in terms of doing the least damage possible to the working class. My dad was in a union & I was reading the communist manifesto in high school. That's my background and it was instrumental in forming my world view.

I hope you'll enjoy it here.

[Mbrow]

8. Well you know the old time anarchist definition of an anarchist is right?

An Anarchist is someone who doesn't need a policeman to tell them right from wrong. Sorry can't remember who said it.

[marym625]

11. Thank you

I will read the study as soon as I have time. I appreciate the link and the welcome.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

12. We are all socialists, we just dont know it. We need much more socialism

not necessarily in the means of production across the board, but surely in all areas of common need such as fuel, electricity, access to the internet, water, etc.

Then all other production should be closely monitored for safety and if we have progressive tax reform where the rich actually pay more and the corps pay their fair share, we could have what we are meant to have.

I love this group so far..

[marym625]

13. That's encouraging

Since I know you and I so often agree