At Third Party Debate, a Focus on Issues Left Out of Mainstream

[marmar]

from YES! Magazine:



At Third Party Debate, a Focus on Issues Left Out of Mainstream
Larry King moderated the lively discussion between four alternative-party candidates, which focused on issues that Barack Obama and Mitt Romney have avoided.

by James Trimarco
posted Oct 24, 2012


If you came away from the Obama-Romney debates wondering where the discussion was on issues like climate change, student debt, and the drone war in Pakistan, last night’s debate between third-party candidates may have been just what you were looking for.

The debate questions were submitted by viewers via social media and read by moderator Larry King. They targeted issues missing from the Obama-Romney debates, like the war on drugs, student debt, and a military appropriations bill that allows the government to detain U.S. citizens without charge.

The four participating candidates filled in areas of the political spectrum both to the left and to the right of Obama and Romney: the Green Party’s Jill Stein, a former medical doctor; the Justice Party’s Rocky Anderson, the former mayor of Salt Lake City; the Constitution Party’s Virgil Goode, a former Virginia congressman; and the Libertarian Party’s Gary Johnson, the former Governor of New Mexico.

Beneath the candidates’ passion and polish, a fatalism about electability surfaced from time to time, giving viewers a window into the difficulty third-party candidates face in attracting attention from the media and pretty much everyone else. Early in the debate, when King made a procedural error and forgot to have the candidates deliver their opening statements, Mr. Anderson responded by saying, “More people are here to listen to you than to listen to us.” ..................(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.yesmagazine.org/people-power/third-party-debate-focus-on-issues-left-out-of-mainstream

[xchrom]

1. Du rec. Nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

2. Well, obviously nobody gives a shit. I know I don't.

[marmar]

3. That's OK....'cause I don't give a shit that you don't give a shit.

Call it even.

[Tarheel_Dem]

4. Shouldn't you be posting this crap over at Third Party Underground? Oh wait....

[socialist_n_TN]

6. Did you wander away from the libertarian picnic?

Last edited Fri Oct 26, 2012, 08:45 PM - Edit history (1)

This is a group, NOT a forum. Read our TOS.

[limpyhobbler]

5. The left is so splintered there should be some kind of unified progressive platform.

Just did a web search for this and found this website "New Progressive Alliance". Seems pretty cool.

It looks like they developed a platform and then candidates can choose to endorse it.

I could see some Democrats signing on to something like this too, while it also appeals to people from that splintered left.

[Cappadonna]

7. Third Party Prez Candidates are Great............if you don't read the fine print

I support the bolster of third parties in our overall political discussion, hell I used to belong to the Greens 7 years ago (time flies). I could vote 3rd Party and not destroy democracy because I live in California. But, I'm really not interested in this non-debate and probably will just vote for Obama - because third party candidates are engaged in the same BS they did back in 2005. Here's my problems with most if not all third party presidential candidates (and it ain't spoiling for the two major candidates):

1. Since most of these guys have either zero street cred (only Johnson has been a governor) and virtually no ground game - the point of their campaign is pretty much ego-tripping for the true believers on the Left (Green, Justice) and Right (Libertarian, Constitution). Too many third parties want to be in the Big Show (Presidential Politics) but can't bother building a base at the local school board and city council - where policy and movements take shape and grow. The main reason I and many other progressives gave up on the Greens after the Nader run of 2000 is because it was more a Socialist discussion group in a Greenwich Village coffeehouse than a real political party.

2. Because they're only speaking to the true believers, the cynical, and the cynically ill informed - third party candidates benefit from no one actually caring what they say, so they can say pretty much what they want. Now this frees these guys to talk about real issues Obama and Romney dare not touch, because they'll piss off donors or key members of their base they need to turn out and just plain scaring undecided voters. But, it also allows third party candidates to wax poetically about BS ideas they know they can't achieve and tell misleading things and revel in conspiracy theory.

So, yes these four candidate can sing Kumbaya about not supporting NDAA (which I think is one of the dumbest and dangerous things signed into law by Obama) or drone strikes (which I'm on the fence about) because frankly, 80-90% of Americans don't know who they are and don't care what they think. The mainstream press, Pro-Isreali Hawks and the tea party aren't going to call them 'pussies' or 'soft on terrorists'. Also, its easy for three white candidates with zero political pedigree to talk smack about the drug war and ending it. Again, Obama nor Romney aren't worried about the libertarian dust heads or the OWS stoners who cry fowl over decriminalization - because they don't vote, period. Why waste political capital to appease a sliver of the electorate that doesn't get off its rear and tick off little ladies (who do vote) who are terrified of dope fiends stealing her TV again?

And, these guys are free to speak in hyperbole and spit whoppers, since again - you're more likely to see this on YouTube than CNN. The Washington Post pointed a few big whoppers right after their debate Also, they can say crazy policy positions without stating alternatives or laying out plans unchallenged - again, because nobody cares. Its easy for Gary Johnson to talk about eliminating Pell Grants and all Medicaid - because only a handful of people outside of New Mexico know who he is. (And most of my libertarian friends who know his position are either too rich or cynical to care). Jill Stein has all the political experience of a neighborhood watch captain and less media exposure - so yes, she can talk beautifully about Medicare for all, without actually saying how she'll win support in a divide and hostile congress or even how she'll pay for it.

3. My personal pet peeve - For the love of God, stop trolling the Dems and Repubs!!! This goes back to point 1, if Dems and Repubs are Pepsi and Coke, third party are like RC Cola (low rent version of what's already on the shelf) or over priced 'natural' sodas. People know they exist, but aren't interested in buying. The last debate I heard was on Democracy now between Jill Stein and Rocky Anderson. After hearing those two squawk about how Obama is just as bad as Romney (which only the most cynical or ignorant believe that crap) and less time actually debating their difference and their own platforms, I just gave up support either of them. Why should not vote for Obama over either one of you and why the hell are you two running against each other?! If I want to hear lefties bitching about how the President isn't following the Black Panther 10-Point Plan, I can read the Common Dreams and Firedog Lake threads. Tell me how you will tangibly be different and effective.

You can't build your candidacy solely on how much your opponents suck - you have to build a reason for voters to switch. And you have to have some real points for people to take you seriously. So to all your 3rd party fans out there - master winning seats to the State Senates and County Commissions and leave the Presidential politics to the 'Big Boys'.

[TBF]

8. We are a group - not a large forum - and you will be blocked

if you continue to troll in here. Please read our TOS here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1024881

Welcome to the Socialist Progressives Group. Posts in this group should generally be supportive of socialism and socialists. We are largely anti-capitalist and will not tolerate red-baiting. We welcome leftists of all persuasion as allowed per the admin's TOS. Democratic (ballot box) socialism, revolutionary socialism, Syndicalists and autonomists are all ok. Pure black flag (as opposed to red/black) anarchists who would rather organize with any anarchist than socialists, including anarcho-capitalists and libertarians, will not be welcome. If you don't know what kind of anarchist you are, cool, so long as you don't hijack and red-bait. This includes no "you're a dictator-lover" if you support the Russian Revolution. CPUSA members, please chime in.

Social Democrats are welcome with the explanation that if someone believes in "regulated" capitalism and social programs, they're a Keynesian, not a socialist. We welcome your questions as long as you're pleasant and don't red bait or shift the discussion away from socialism. You'll find many of us support Obama and his re-election given our two-party system, but this is not the forum to talk about the intricacies of elections - see Politics 2012 for those conversations. We are more concerned with safe-guarding the working class gains we've made in this country thus far and encouraging the peaceful transition to socialism. Please no Trotsky or Stalin baiting, we've all seen it fracture groups and do not want to fight that battle again.

[TheKentuckian]

11. Why should you give a shit if third parties troll TeaPubliKlans?

Odd concern. Democrats of course but a Ross Perot or a Libertarian rebellion seem like wonderful things.

A very strange concern.

[BOG PERSON]

9. i watched some of this

it was sad and boring. theres no space in national politics for reforms that aren't actually attacks on the hard-won gains of past generations - e.g. "entitlement" "reform". we're screwed.

[limpyhobbler]

10. I wish we could start opening more space for that conversation.

We've had some glimmers in Wisconsin, with Occupy, Chicago teachers, some of the foreclosure resistance stuff.

It seems like people have less public awareness of the austerity threat in America than they do over in Europe.