The folly of nations and nationalism.

[white_wolf]

Tonight after discussion on the German Ideology and Thesis on Feurbach, we (somehow) got on the topic of Occupy, and one of the people in the group mentioned a disturbing trend of nationalism within Occupy.

By this, I don't think he meant anything like Fascism, but rather the concept of "we are Americans, we deserve better than this." People do deserve better, but not because they are Americans, but because they are people. I fear we might be falling victim to the divide and conquer strategy of the bourgeois. We should not divide ourselves along national lines, but should unite against a common enemy.

The capitalist themselves do not care for nations or governments, as one of them said "governments don't rule the world, Goldman-Sachs rules the world." I don't think anyone would disagree with the statement that capital does not care for nations, even Thomas Jefferson realized this when he said "merchant have no country the mere spot of land they stand upon does not constitute so strong and attachment as where they draw their gains." If capital does not allow itself to be divided along lines of nationalism, why should we?

My questions are twofold, 1. Have any of you noticed any sort of nationalism amongst Occupy and 2. How do we fight this concept of nations and nationalism?

[TBF]

1. That's been a concern amongst some of us since Occupy started -

meganmonkey (who I think is still on DU) has done some blogging of the Occupy sites she has visited. If you google her user name you should be able to find some of her writing. The problem I think is that our entire self-concept here is so bourgeoisie - it is how our press frames every issue so even folks who should be more class-conscious see themselves as owners. As Carlin said, "It's a big club and we're not in it. You and I are not in it". He was absolutely right - even with his income (and my own as a professional) - we are not in that club. That is the concept that we have to re-teach so folks can look at their own reality objectively and realize that even if they own an iPhone and big screen TV, maybe a house in the suburbs, if they are a few paychecks away from being homeless they are not owners. The kind of wealth that is controlling this country is really the top 1/2 or so of the top 1%. Folks who inherit and/or make millions of dollars - folks with that kind of money in their bank accounts. The rest of us serve at their whim whether we are handling their legal problems or mowing their grass.

Regarding hooking up with international groups - that's an organizational/logistical thing I suppose. Groups have managed to connect in this country over the internet so it's possible to reach out that way. I agree that our resistance has to be international. There was a time when perhaps it was not so - but as you say we are fighting global capitalism so we have to be able to organize that way ourselves. Maybe some folks here will have some concrete ideas as to how we can connect with Occupy groups internationally. Perhaps involving labor groups as well ...

[limpyhobbler]

2. It's a real thing but it might just be that people need more vocabulary.

There is some mild nationalism at Occupy, like what you described, such as 'we are Americans, so we deserve better'. So first keep in mind that there is probably less nationalist-type rhetoric at Occupy than at almost any other political gathering in the US.

But it's something to keep an eye on, and work on.

I think part of the explanation might just be that people use mild nationalism as a rhetorical crutch when they can't think of anything better to say. Mainstream politicians use that kind of language all the time. So people just think that is how one is supposed to talk about political issues.

It could be a problem because using that kind of vocabulary might inhibit people from reaching the other goal you mentioned, international cooperation among workers.

I think it is fair to say that at least part of the reason why nations exist in the first place is because of the role those boundaries play in keeping people separate, to prevent oppressed people from cooperating, thereby protecting the power structure across nations.

There are also other barriers, like language barriers. It is easy for a wealthy representative of the capitalist class to hire a team of Chinese-to-English translators. It is much more difficult for regular people to hire translators.

Also we are separated from workers in other nations by oceans/deserts/etc. It is very easy for corporate agents from the US, China, Mexico, and the UK to all have a meeting in Hong Kong to discuss how to maximize all their profits by minimizing labor costs and bribing governments.

It is difficult or near impossible for Chinese workers to travel to the United States to attend labor organizing conferences.

So sorry to go off on a tangent.

But how to fight concepts of nations and nationalism. People want the vocabulary to describe the situation. I suppose part of it is leading by example. Keep using the vocab. and letting people know how to describe the way our economy really works. Maybe a reading group could help? Do be honest I think movie screenings are better. Also maybe burn a bunch of DVDs of a movie you think is good on the issue and hand them out to people in your network. In other words, just nuts and bolts talking to people and organizing.

[Sea-Dog]

3. I don't see anything wrong with the kind

of nationalism on show here.