Get your flu shot

[Ohiya]

I may be superstitious, but the way its just been one horrible thing after another lately, a horrible flu epidemic could be next.

[elfin]

1. Always get it the third week in October

Read somewhere that this is the optimal timing. Can't remember why, but have not had the flu for over 20 years. Always call the doc to see if he recommends the regular or the "plus" for me, given that I now am on an immunosuppressant for horrid psoriasis (Stelara.) One year he said just get the regular, last year he said it didn't matter.

[CTyankee]

47. Me, too. I wait to be absolutely sure it is the right time. The pharmacies push it, tho.

[Brainstormy]

161. No XXXX, Sherlock.

What's in it for the phamacacies?

[Ohiya]

131. Great, good luck, I'm next week.

[appleannie1943]

2. Got mine last week. I heard it IS going to be a bad flu year.

[Ohiya]

132. Great, I hope it's not going to be bad this year, but you never know.

[Doreen]

3. Never have and never will.

I have friends who get them and they get sick right after. I do not usually get sick anyway.

[becca da bakkah]

14. Absolutely. I Totally Agree....

...good for you! My last job everyone got sick after getting their flu shots. I didn't, continued to work, and I was the oldest one there. I'll never have one, and I don't allow my disabled daughter to get one either. It's nothing but a scam.

[Doreen]

15. Glad to know someone else thinks like me on that subject.

[Skittles]

16. they're not getting SICK

that's the body mounting an immune response to a very bad virus

[Doreen]

17. I have found that Washing hands and keeping things sanitized works just fine.

I am not talking about overkill but not washing hands is a real reason people get sick.

[Skittles]

19. yes

it's possible THE PEOPLE YOU CATCH IT FROM DIDN'T WASH THEIR HANDS

[LuckyCharms]

67. You're supposed to wash your hands?

[Skittles]

69. don't fall for this fucking bullshit, LuckyCharms

these anti-vaxxers are fucking NUTCASES

you can wash your hands all you fucking please but you can STILL GET THE FLU - just a SNEEZE can do that

[LuckyCharms]

70. Oh I was just being sarcastic. I am getting my flu shot within the next week or so...

and I can't understand not getting one. It is not just protecting yourself, it is protecting others you come into contact with, especially the elderly and those with chronic diseases.

[Skittles]

71. you know it

[auntAgonist]

90. As one with chronic illness(es). I thank you. n/t

[Ohiya]

142. Yeah, and keep your hands out of your nose and eyes...

... and out of other peoples noses and eyes especially.

[syringis]

128. I'm not sure washing hands is enough to prevent flu

Flu virus transmission is not only by direct contact.

Young healthy people can avoid flu shot since they still have a good immune system. At least, if it is a year in which the viral strain is not too agressive.

For older people or in general, for people with a depressed immune system, flu shot is not a luxury.

[steve2470]

33. +1 nt

[KT2000]

59. +1

[MFM008]

37. Read about the

1918 flu pandemic.
It killed more people than the black death in the 1300s.
People died within hours.
In the battle of man vs microorganisms they will win.

[steve2470]

39. +1 nt

[sarge43]

145. It killed more people than WWI

Estimates range from 20M to 50M world wide. With modern transportation, it was spread across oceans and continents within a week. Now a pandemic could spread in hours.

[Brainstormy]

76. Flu shots for folks over 60

were 0% effective last year. For others, only 48% effective. For Big Pharma, 100% effective.

[Aristus]

82. More anti-vaxxer idiocy.

Don't blame yourself. You may just not be bright enough to know it when you see it.

Big Pharma doesn't make money on vaccines. In fact, vaccines are a money-loser for the peddlers of erection pills and narcotic medications.

They produce and distribute them because there is a Federal mandate to do so.

If you are merely trolling, well done. If you posted in earnest, shut the front door until you know what you're talking about.

[Brainstormy]

107. My information came directly from the CDC and NIH websites

Check it out yourself. If you're not too busy being a rude jerk.

[Aristus]

109. I've tried being nice to anti-vaxxers. It doesn't work.

Convincing an intelligent person can be difficult. Convincing an ignorant person can be impossible.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaccineeffect.htm

Here's a link. It addresses the decreased efficacy of flu vaccine among seniors. Nowhere does it say the efficacy is 0%.

Your only possible motive for proceeding beyond this point is to spread misinformation about flu vaccine and to discourage people from getting them. Don't do that.

[Brainstormy]

111. And here's my data: Direct quote from the CDC

"Early vaccine effectiveness estimates for the 2016-2017 season indicated that flu vaccines this season was reducing a vaccinated person’s risk of getting sick and needing medical care because of flu by about half. According to data from the U.S. Flu Vaccine Effectiveness Network, interim estimates show flu vaccine has been 48% effective in preventing medically-attended influenza A and B illness."


Other link quoting the CDC regarding older people:

the vaccine was about 42 percent effective in preventing illness severe enough to send a patient to the doctor's office. But it was essentially ineffective protecting some age groups. That includes people 65 and older — the group that's hardest hit by flu, suffering the most deaths and hospitalizations.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/georgia/articles/2017-06-21/flu-vaccine-ineffective-for-people-65-and-older-last-winter

and FYI: I am NOT an anti-vaxer. But YOU are an asshat.

[fleur-de-lisa]

121. Aristus works in the medical field and sometimes hears a lot of nonsense.

I'm not calling your post nonsense, by the way. You clearly cited your information.

Aristus is a good guy, really. And very kind. Please don't take his post the wrong way. I assure you he is not an asshat.

[Laffy Kat]

157. Even if it is true the vaccine is zero percent effective for people over 60, that is no excuse.

No excuse not to have the shot. Even 10% effective across all age groups (and I'm making that number up) it still provides some herd immunity and thus, more protection for all people. Less flu = less disease for people over 60. Herd immunity is a huge defense and people don't seem to get it.

[Brainstormy]

159. That is so ridiculous that the stupid just burns.

How do you imagine that NOT immunizing someone against something protects other people?????

[Laffy Kat]

162. I said, in summary, that even if a minority of people were immunized it would...

Help everyone. That's what herd immunity is. You need to calm down. Who is being a "rude jerk" now?

[Thor_MN]

158. The woo mongerers are unlikely to stop.

Their belief that their anecdotal experience rules the universe is virtually unshakable.

Unless one has no insurance whatsoever, not getting a vaccine that is generally covered 100% makes no sense.

[womanofthehills]

112. Wrong - "The $1.6 billion business of flu

Also, you sure are rude to people who disagree with you.

And this is from 2015 so the amt is probably much higher now

That time of year is upon us, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said manufacturers are distributing more flu vaccine in the U.S. than ever: a projected 171 million to 179 million doses this year.

That's up from 147.8 million distributed last year, amounting to $1.61 billion in revenue, according to industry researcher IMS Health. Globally, manufacturer CSL estimates the market for influenza vaccines at $4 billion.

https://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/19/the-16-billion-business-of-flu.html

[womanofthehills]

116. "Big Pharma doesn't make money on vaccines" - FALSE -

All told, the bestselling vaccine in the world is Pfizer’s Prevnar 13. The pneumococcal shot is expected to reach sales as high as $5.83 billion by 2020, according to some analysts.

http://fortune.com/2016/03/08/sanofi-merck-joint-venture/

[trixie2]

95. I agree

I find some of these comments to be insulting. You disagree then show us a link, don't insult us.

[Ohiya]

141. All I can say is...

I've been over sixty for four years now, I get a shot every year, I'm an RN, and My wife is an elementary school Occupational Therapist. We are both around people with the flu a lot!

Maybe we are just lucky, but it seems to work for us.

Hope you stay safe and healthy, we need all our voters!

[sarge43]

146. Hate to ruin that stat, but for at least two well over 60 folks,

the flu shot was 100% effective. Neither hubby nor I had the flu.

In fact since the time Ford made it mandatory for service personnel, we routinely get them annually and no flu. One exception: For reasons I won't go into, about three years ago hubby didn't get his. Yes, he got the flu and he had to be hospitalized. A couple days there and I thought I'd lost him. Trust me, you don't want to watch someone you love struggle to breathe.

Sorry about the stat.

[Brainstormy]

160. Seriously?

you're sure that the fact that you got a flu shot and didn't get flu PROVES this? Give me a break.

[Aristus]

18. The flu shot doesn't give you the flu.

Every year I go over this same ground with my patients.

Anti-vaxxers are stupid.

Anti-vaxxers are dangerous.

Don't be an anti-vaxxer...

[Skittles]

20. people believe anything they hear

the fact they have never had the flu is proof they don't need a flu shot! It is hard to combat that kind of thinking

[Aristus]

25. Misinformation and misperception may have something to do with it, as well.

I'll give a patient the flu shot, and a few weeks later, they'll come in with a common, garden-variety cold, thinking it's the flu.

I reassure them, give them symptomatic treatment, tell them to get some rest, and send them home.

[Skittles]

44. I hear you

it's just that, the information is out there and these people refuse to believe. Or else they DO believe but just don't want to do it. SELFISH.

[steve2470]

34. +1 nt

[syringis]

129. Especially when it comes to flu...

If I remember well, flu virus evolves and from a year to the next is a new one.

I'm not in the medical field and do not have the appropriate vocabulary in addition to not be an English native speaker. I hope I'm clear.

It is hard to argue with anti vaxxers in general. Though, even if not evolving in the medical field, it is easy to get right information.

Speaking in general, anti vaxxers kills more than do ant kind of shot.

Several countries had to force vaccination thru laws. At least for kids and some kind of diseases. It is hard to see some diseases almost eradicated, back because vaccination was refused.

It is known that we don't all react the same way, and in a few cases, vaccines caused serious damages. But these cases are very rare. At the population level, benefits are incomparably higher.

[Skittles]

130. you are more clear than most of the republicans I know

yes INDEED

[Doreen]

26. So it is not the flu but most people I talk to who get it get sick afterwards.

I am not an anti-vaxxer. Vaccines have saved many lives. My boyfriend has traveled the world and has seen first hand what happens to those who can not get them. I am just against the flu vaccine for myself.

[Aristus]

29. What they're getting sick with is not the flu.

It's usually the common cold, and they think it's the flu.

The way vaccination works, it's not like you get sick with the specific disease, and then get better; you don't get sick with it at all.

At least you're not putting children at risk with an anti-vaccine stance. But if you don't get yours, then you become a vector for disease transmission for anyone who is medically unable to receive vaccination (allergy, etc.)

Getting your flu shot benefits everyone, not just you.

[smirkymonkey]

35. Thank YOU!

I appreciate sound advice on these threads.

[Lars39]

48. I got mine Monday, just felt draggy.

Husband got his yesterday, just felt draggy. Neither one of us have gotten sick.
You could actually be spreading the flu by not getting a vaccine.

[steve2470]

28. I really appreciate your input in these kind of threads

I know sometimes you get undeserved shite but I value your input.

[Aristus]

31. Thank you.

It comes with the territory. It's worth it.

[steve2470]

32. so true nt

[fleur-de-lisa]

50. Thank you, Aristus!

Some of the silly comments in this thread leave me shaking my head!

[Aristus]

56. Always a pleasure...

Ma'am!

[trixie2]

68. Just because one does not get a flu shot does not mean they are an anti-vaxxer.

Regular vaccines are proven to end disease.

The flu shot is just a guess.

[Aristus]

77. I don't care what a person's motives or beliefs are.

If they refuse to get vaccinated, they are contributing to the damage caused by vocal anti-vaxxers.

And it's not a guess, it's a hypothesis. A supposition based upon observation. An educated guess, if you will.

I don't like it when a dilettante think a Google search is the equal of a medical education, board-review, and licensing.

[trixie2]

108. You say you are a medical person of licensing?

Then why have you not listed the CDC reasons for a person TO NOT GET THE FLU SHOT?

Calling people anti-vaxxers for not getting a flu shot is disingenuous. We know that the polio vaccine, the whooping cough vaccine and others have eradicated these diseases from our, and other, countries.

We know the flu shots are a guess at what flu strains MIGHT be around for up to two years in advance.

I am insulted by your response. I have lost my mother to the flu shot and I, myself, am not cleared for the flu shot by my physician.

Better advice from a doctor SHOULD BE that each person discuss the decision with their physician. A physician will give you the flu shot in his/her office. This makes me think that you are the dilettante. Your lack of fact and sound advice speaks loudly.

[Aristus]

110. I'm a Physician Assistant. Certified by the NCCPA, and licensed by the State of Washington

to practice clinical medicine.

Those credentials are a little stronger than 'I lost a family member to yada-yada-yada'.

There's a link above. Click on it and read it.

So far, the only thing you have done correctly is to state that each patient should discuss the matter (not the decision. Absent a documented allergy in my patients, the decision is mine: 'get your vaccines or get out.') with their provider. If a patient's personal antipathy to vaccination outweighs my clinical judgement, then I encourage them to find another provider.

[womanofthehills]

115. Hello, there is a Vaccine Injury Compensation Program for people who have been injured by the flu

It's not a one size fits all. Also, there are so many different flu shots with so many different ingredients. Different flu shots are recommended for different ages and you can get flu shots with or without egg (which some people are allergic too), with or without thimerosal, with or without formaldehyde, squaline, sulfates, etc. Most people just get a flu shot and don't even research what one would be best for them or what the ingredients are. Knowing the ingredients of the many different types of flu shots available each season, makes a big difference to people with allergies.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaxsupply.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/b/excipient-table-2.pdf

[trixie2]

124. Thank you

I find your post to be well mannered and informative.

[sarge43]

147. Their minds are made up, Aristus. Don't confuse them with facts. n/t

[trixie2]

66. I don't get the shot EVER

My mother died within days of getting a flu shot. She was not cleared for one but her local pharmacy cornered her and gave her one. When we brought it up that we had already told them she was not a candidate for the flu vaccine they claimed not to know even though we entered it in her pharmacy record. She started having massive strokes and passed very quickly. Then they tell us not everyone should get a flu shot. NO SHIT SHERLOCK! That's why we told them and had them enter it in her record. They made their $10 off her insurance company though, hope it was worth it.

I don't like the flu vaccine because they are just guessing and more often than not the guess was completely wrong. You can look up the CDC chart on VE (vaccine effectiveness) per year.

Like many of you on this sub thread line I have been one of the only people at work. One year the organization brought in the flu shots to be given for free to the staff. Only me and 2 others did not get the vaccine. Guess which 3 people were able to work? We actually had to close down a couple of days for there was not enough employees well enough to work.

The organization never did that free flu shot thing ever again. Having worked there so long I knew exactly which of my staff will get the shot and then get sick and then run out their sick time so they have to use up their vacation days and can't take that coveted Christmas week vacation.

[Skittles]

96. THE FLU SHOT DOES NOT MAKE YOU SICK

sorry about your mum but please STOP with this nonsense

[womanofthehills]

117. Untrue - WHY is there a Vaccine Injury Compensation Program?

Look online. Why are there so many vaccine injury compensation lawyers? The CDC even lists Guillain-Barre Syndrome as a possible side effect - two in a million but that would be about 300 reported in the USA.

National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program

Vaccines save lives by preventing disease.

Most people who get vaccines have no serious problems. Vaccines, like any medicines, can cause side effects, but most are very rare and very mild. Some health problems that follow vaccinations are not caused by vaccines.

In very rare cases, a vaccine can cause a serious problem, such as a severe allergic reaction. In these instances, the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) may provide financial compensation to individuals who file a petition and are found to have been injured by a VICP-covered vaccine. Even in cases in which such a finding is not made, petitioners may receive compensation through a settlement.

Vaccine Injury Table from hrsa.gov
https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/vaccinecompensation/pre03202017-vaccineinjurytable.pdf

[Skittles]

119. there are SIDE EFFECTS to ALL MEDICINES

HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Orrex]

75. I filled my car's washer fluid and then got a flat tire

Coincidence?

[Doreen]

80. Uhmmm, you better get yourself to the doctor.

I'm sure the papers you get would tell you those are some of the symptoms you get. You know? Those papers you are supposed to read.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

87. It could have been worse. You could have gotten a flu shot, and then

got two flat tires.

[Laffy Kat]

99. They don't use live virus.

There is no way to get the flu from the shot. I have this argument with people every year and no one ever changes their mind, so it's useless. People are going to do or not do what they want to do.

[Doreen]

101. I did not say the friends I had got sick from the flu they just got sick after the shot.

I however just got my first flu shot yesterday after most people here and my boyfriend convinced me to get it. I did not get sick. The shot itself did not hurt....almost didn't feel it. The pharmacy did have me stay for 15 minutes afterwards since I had never had a flu shot just in case I did have a reaction. The only reaction I had was buying chocolate and getting a hamburger from the fast food place across from the Rite Aid.

[Laffy Kat]

102. Excellent idea. Chocolate should be required following immunizations.

[womanofthehills]

118. "They don't use live virus" - Flu Mist DOES USE LIVE VIRUS

You can still get Flu Mist this season but it's not recommended.

[Laffy Kat]

149. You're right, it does. I just researched it.

I was referring to the injections but I'm glad you pointed that out. It's good to know.

[LanternWaste]

114. Anecdotal evidence is comforting

Anecdotal evidence and post hoc ergo prompter hoc fallacies are rather comforting, if not an objective measure.

[Ohiya]

133. So far so good, I hope you stay healthy, Washing your hands a lot is very helpful...

...I hope I didn't sound condescending. I wish everyone all the best,

[Ohiya]

143. Good luck, stay healthy...

... we need all our voters!

[redwitch]

4. I am waiting for a plague of locusts.

I am getting my flu shot tomorrow or Saturday.

[samplegirl]

5. It's really not safe.

I know as I worked in Pharmacy.

[COLGATE4]

7. Well, THAT certainly convinces me. nt

[Iggo]

23. Health care is bad for you.

I know as I worked in a Hospital.

[fleur-de-lisa]

49. Snort! eom

[Skittles]

45. do you chant at midnight, too?

[tymorial]

51. I am an RN

This comment is nonsense. Get a flu shot
.

[Aristus]

83. Life has a 100% mortality rate.

I know this because I am alive.

[Lars39]

6. Was told Monday by my doctor that they're already seeing cases here in TN.

[Irish_Dem]

8. I think locusts and fiery hail are next. Then the plague. :(

Got my flu shot at CVS recently. Quicker than seeing my doctor.

[skylucy]

9. Thanks for posting this Ohiya! I got mine last week!

Do you think Trump will get a flu shot or will he think it is "fake news" or a Dem conspiracy recommending everyone get vaccinated?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. Gonna get mine next week.

I got the Hong Kong flu during the 1968-1969 pandemic, and I thought I was going to have to get better in order to die. It killed about a million people worldwide. Flu is nothing to fuck with, and if I hadn't been a healthy 19-year-old it might have done me in. I am no longer that, so I get my shot every year.

[Shrike47]

12. Oddly enough, I didn't get that one. Our office of about 100 people, everyone sick.

I was the only person at work, as I remember it.

[smirkymonkey]

36. What is interesting is that the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918 mainly killed young adults

due to their stronger immune systems - something called a cytokine storm. The very young and the very old seemed to have a higher survival rate. We never know when we are going to get hit with something like that again. It killed around 50-100 million people around the world. This is not something to take lightly.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

38. A couple of my grandmother's siblings died in that epidemic.

They were younger people, I think in their '20s. It's believed the flu was initially spread by soldiers living in close quarters, with poor nutrition and hygiene, during WWI.

[smirkymonkey]

41. Yes, that's how it spread here in the states. I am sorry for the loss of your great aunts/uncles.

Usually flu is especially hard on the very young or very old, but the Spanish Flu was different in that it took so many healthy young adults. Very tragic. I am worried that we will have the perfect storm of a new pandemic and a failing healthcare system in this country. It would be an absolute disaster. The republicans are so short-sighted that they can't see that. Trying to be hopeful, but they make it difficult sometimes.

[Nay]

43. Pubs shortsighted? They don't care if a whole bunch of us die of the flu or whatever.

That IS part of the plan. Overpopulation, you know? Need to get rid of the useless eaters.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

55. And the reason so few people over the age of 50 got that flu

was that around fifty years earlier there was a flu epidemic of a similar type of flu. Those who got that one then, were immune to the Spanish flu.

Another thing people don't fully appreciate is hand-washing, mentioned above. 100 years ago a lot of homes didn't have running water, and hand-washing would have been very hit-or-miss.

[marigold20]

153. Will get mine this week

Hong Kong flu? Whoa, I had the most awful case of the flu when I was in college, late 60's. Maybe it was Hong Kong flu - whatever, I have never been so sick. I never want to go through that again so every year I get my shot.

I read "The Great Influenza" and I recall that as the flu spread across the country, the mortality rates varied a lot from town to town.

[Shrike47]

11. DH and I got them last week. We old, we have a baby grand daughter.

[Frustratedlady]

13. I got mine during a recent hospital stay.

The nurse said I was lucky to get it so early (I usually wait until the weather cools down in October), as they are planning on a heavy flu season. I guess Australia was recently hit with one that is covered in the shot.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

40. Bullshit.

I've had the flu and got very, very sick. It's not a joke. I didn't imagine it. And I didn't get it from "negative thoughts," since I was a college kid having a good time and didn't even know there was an epidemic. Maybe this post belongs in the conspiracy theory forum.

[Iggo]

46. That was the psychosomatic flu video, huh.

[blogslut]

22. Got it and a pneumonia shot yesterday.

My deltoids are ouchy.

I had never had a flu shot until about four years ago when I got a a case of flu that felt like it almost killed me. This is my first year for the pneumonia shot.

[NotASurfer]

24. Of course sitting Presidents are immune so there is one person who clearly is exempt

Just like staring at the sun, and living on a diet of fried takeaway food and incredible chocolate cake...

Didn’t get vaccine for years, got the flu on a regular basis. Sure, the arm I get the vaccine in hurts the next day, I feel cold even if it’s sweltering, and I have limited energy, but it’s been a few days now and all’s well. Haven’t had the full-blown chills, uncontrollable shakes, and spikey fever for a long time.

(I know, that’s testimonial. I understand the science and rationally it’s why we no longer see the horrible effects of infectious diseases - polio is a good case-in-point. Even if a vaccine only makes a dent, 30% effective, it keeps flu from spreading as fast and far as it would unchecked. The other explanation is that infectious diseases are just mass hysteria and death is just when suggestible people believe they’re about to die and essentially will themselves to death. Get your vaccines, already! End PSA)

[steve2470]

27. did it for the first time the other day, in my doctor's office! nt

[Nay]

42. Got mine last week. I also heard from the pharmacist that it was supposed to be

a very flu-y winter.

[riverbendviewgal]

52. I always do

It cost me nothing.

[fleur-de-lisa]

53. Thanks for reminding everyone!

Got mine two weeks ago.

[RKP5637]

54. Yep, did it, all done! n/t

[Doreen]

57. OK, OK, OK I am going to go get one down the street at Rite Aid.

As long as they accept Medicare I will be fine. I have been convinced by some of you here and my boyfriend. Well, I will let you know if I die ( ha, ha, ha. ) If I get sick will someone bring me chicken soup and hot cocoa?

[Lars39]

63. Yay! Thank you, Doreen!

I'd bring you cookies, too, if I lived close enough.

[Doreen]

65. All done.

No blood dripping from my eyes. I feel fine. Good excuse to go get a burger and get chocolate.

[Lars39]

73. There ya go! :-)

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

58. I am not anti-vaxxer, but I don't get the flu shot.

I have an amazing immune system, lucky me. I did get the shingles shot a few years ago, and I'm waiting for them to figure out just how often a person should get that one. I'm also due for another DPT in a couple of years.

I got the flu any number of times before I was 15, and never in the 55 years since. If my health declines, if my immune system stops being so strong, I may well consider the flu shot.

Meanwhile, I last got a cold about seven years ago.

The book The Great Influenza by John Barry is something everyone should read. It explains quite clearly how the epidemic was created by cramming young soldiers, many of whom had never been outside of their small, rural communities, into unsanitary and overcrowded barracks, created perfect conditions for an epidemic like that. Plus, even though reputable doctors kept on saying "Don't keep on sending sick soldiers overseas in crowded troops ships" the U.S. government refused to listen.

Another fascinating aspect of that book is the telling of how this country went from a crappy medical system and almost no decent medical schools, to having some of the best medical schools and one of the finest medical systems in the world in very short order. The influenza epidemic helped that along to an extent.

John Barry writes wonderful books.

[tymorial]

62. A robust immune system does not prevent you from getting the flu

It helps combat the virus should you get infected. Getting a flu vaccination allows your immune system to create antbodies for the virus strains expected to be common this coming season.

This is meant as no insult. I have seen the argument often (I have a strong immune system). People only become immune AFTER they have already been infected and have developed antibodies.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

64. It also helps if you've had the flu before. You get immunity from that.

As I understand it, there are three major strains of flu, imaginatively named A, B, and C. The A type is the most virulent. The Spanish flu, the Hong Kong Flu of 1968 and the Asian flu of 1957 were all the type A. I'm pretty sure I got flu in 1957/58, which would have been the Asian flu. I maybe got flu once or twice since then.

Again, the immunity you get from getting the disease tends to be pretty much life long. That's my experience at least. So my immunity seems to stem from having gotten flu in the past. Along with an overall good immune system.

In early childhood I got sick a lot. I was one of six kids, we lived in a neighborhood with lots of other kids, I went to Catholic and then public schools, surrounded by grubby kids like me. I'm old enough that I also got measles, mumps, chicken pox, and rubella. My sons came along before the chicken pox vaccine, but they did get their MMR shots. Honest, I'm not a knee-jerk anti-vaxxer.

In any case, please do read the John Barry book because you will find it fascinating. I'm not pushing it as a way to prove "I'm right", but because it has so much amazing information in it, not only about that terrible epidemic but about this country's medical establishment. In fact, you might easily come to the conclusion after reading it that I really am a nutcase. Hope not.

[tymorial]

78. You basically just repeated what I said :)

Your immune system creates antibodies to fight infection and those antibodies do remain in your system. Influenza viruses A, B and C are the major flu viruses but there are strains of each. Strains can also shift and drift so having been infected does not necessarily guarantee existing antibodies will afford immunity in the future because the same strain could have changed. No one is infected by "flu a". They are infected by a strain such as H1N1 or H3N2 which are subtypes of Flu A.

As for you being a nutcase. I don't think that but I would point out that I am very much a part of the "medical establishment"

[Aristus]

84. Ah, another variation on the time-honored patient stand-by:

" I KNOW MY BODY!"

Go get your flu shot, and stop trying to impress us with your amazing immune system.

I can't count how many times I've had a patient present to the clinic with a nasty, but easily-preventable illness, and begging me "DO something for me!"

I always do, because that's what I signed on for. But the 'first, do no harm' part of my oath prohibits me from smacking them upside their empty heads for refusing preventive medicine measures.

[trixie2]

94. I agree

How many people actually read and put further study into what the CDC actually says? It's all a guess and they even estimate, to their benefit, the number of deaths. They also bury the lists of people who should not get the vaccine.

How many of you see a list that tells you if YOU SHOULD NOT get the vaccine at your local pharmacy? We got an atty, they pharmacy had a record of her doctor and her family saying NO FLU SHOT so we got a large settlement. Those stories you don't hear about.

Someone gets rich off these shots. I was at a local pharmacy, big chain, to get travel size toothpaste soap etc and was pounced on 6 times by 6 employees. One even took my arm and was pulling me toward the back. I yelled, "Stranger Danger", and the manager came out and helped me out to my car. A neighbor of mine has received the flu shot twice already and was told to come back each month for another one. That can't be right!

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

105. What I am most bothered by is the blanket recommendation that EVERYONE

get the flu shot, essentially burying (as you put it) those who shouldn't or don't need to get it.

I also get tired of the accusation that if I don't get the shot I'm guilty of spreading flu. Asymptomatic carriers of flu essentially don't exist. And yes, while those developing the vaccine each year do their best to estimate which strains will come to the forefront each flu season, they can get it wrong and some years the vaccine is more effective than others. Apparently last year it was unusually ineffective, although for those for whom it's a good idea, that's still better than no shot.

The real problem is that the underlying reason for the constant presence of flu is not even acknowledged, let alone addressed. And that is animal husbandry practices in China. Look it up.

[womanofthehills]

120. Agreed - there are no absolutes esp. few studies on repeat vaccinations

Check this out from the CDC

Is it true that getting vaccinated repeatedly can reduce vaccine effectiveness?

Some studies do suggest that flu vaccine effectiveness may be higher in people receiving flu vaccine for the first time compared to people who have been vaccinated more than once; other studies have found no evidence that repeat vaccination results in a person being less-protected against flu.

Immune responses to vaccination may be higher among people who were not vaccinated in a previous season, but repeatedly vaccinated people (i.e., people who receive the flu vaccine each year) may still have increased immune responses after vaccination.

Two reviews of multiple studies have found that for people vaccinated in the prior season, vaccination in the subsequent season provides additional protection against flu.

Information regarding flu vaccination history is particularly important to these types of evaluations, and can be difficult to confirm, as accurate vaccination records are not always readily available. People who choose to get vaccinated every year may have different characteristics and susceptibility to flu compared to those who do not seek vaccination every year. CDC thinks that these findings merit further investigation to understand the immune response to repeat vaccination. CDC supports continued efforts to monitor the effects of repeat vaccination each year. However, based on the substantial burden of flu in the United States, and on the fact that most studies point to vaccination benefits, CDC recommends that yearly flu vaccination remains the first and most important step in protecting against flu and its complications.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaccineeffect.htm

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

125. I had not run across that before. Quite interesting.

Especially when you realize that the immunity gained from having gotten influenza itself is vastly superior to the immunity gotten from the vaccine.

As I stated above, my confidence in my immunity is based on having gotten flu in my youth, as well as my understanding of the virus itself.

Back when we all needed to show proof of smallpox vaccination when returning to this country after travel abroad, I kept on losing the documentation, so I kept on needing to get a smallpox vaccination. No big deal, except that after a while I didn't show an immune response to the vaccine. Another factoid connected to smallpox: the last outbreak in this country was in 1948. One of the things that stood out then was that people who had last had a smallpox vaccination 50 years earlier were still, for the most part, protected.

I am not conflating smallpox with influenza. Quite the contrary.

I understand the value of vaccinations. I'm just not entirely certain that a blanket recommendation of the flu vaccination is truly in everyone's best interest.

Here's another thing to ponder. There are those who cannot be vaccinated, or who have highly compromised immune systems. Should absolutely everything be done to protect them, even if that's not in the best interest in the majority.

[Not Ruth]

60. Way too early, you get it once you hear of a person getting the flu, so it works best at peak season

If you get it early, it no longer it working when everyone has the flu. It is not like a once in a lifetime polio vaccine, it works for a short time, think of it like buying milk.

[nancy1942]

61. Got mine 2 days ago.

As an old lady with an immune problem I always get one. Never have any type of negative reaction to them either. I am a strong believer in people getting their flu shots.

[Historic NY]

72. Trump Pandemic.......

got mind the other day/

[littlewolf]

74. nope don't get the flu shot

they basically throw darts at the wall and whatever
strains of flu it hits ... that is what they use ...
also ... I got the flu shot every year in the military
it was an order ...
I always got the flu ...
since I have gotten out ... 23 years ago
I have not had the flu ... I wash my hands
and use hand sanitizer all the time
but no flu shot ...

[Iggo]

79. You sure you didn't just get a cold?

You actually got the flu every year?

[Orrex]

81. Almost everyone who refuses the flu shot tells the same story:

"Every year that I got the shot, I got the flu. I stopped getting the shot, and I stopped getting the flu."

You can set your watch by it.

If that's not the story, then it's "my friend(s) got the shot, and then got the flu."

Precious few of these poor victims are ever formally diagnosed, either because "I know what the flu is" or because "you think doctors will admit that the vaccine doesn't work?"

Sometimes you get people who say "I don't get the shot. I'll just take my chances." At least they're honest, even if their reasoning is messed up.

[Skittles]

97. are they simply unable to google for the FACTS?

THEY SOUND LIKE FOX NEWS FANS

[Orrex]

104. I've spent years trying to understand it, and I've failed

There are some who simply have a heartfelt fear of needles, and hey, we all have our issues. But the others, the ones concoct bizarre scenarios and creatively rewrite epidemiology, are simply fools.

[Skittles]

113. I / my friends / my coworkers got the flu shot and it made them sick!

they show up EVERY flu season like clockwork, spreading their nonsense.....they have ZERO CLUE HOW FUCKING STUPID THEY SOUND

[Aristus]

85. I can't even begin to count the number of ethical boundaries you have contravened.

It might be better if you just take down your post.

Read my posts above. The flu shot does not give you the flu. You've never gotten the flu from the flu vaccine. That's flat. No ifs, ands, or buts. No maybes, no supposes. You have never gotten the flu from the flu vaccine. You got a common, garden-variety cold completely unrelated to the vaccination, and you convinced yourself it was the flu because that would conform to your previously-developed, erroneous bias.

The immunologists who develop the yearly vaccine strain do not throw darts at the wall. That's gambling, and immunology and virology have as much to do with gambling as the game of blackjack has to do with that heavy little weapon you hit people with before mugging them.

They develop a hypothesis in advance of flu season as to which strain is most likely to be the prominent variety that year, and act accordingly. If you care to classify that as a guess, just be sure to acknowledge that it is a very highly-educated guess, backed by decades of experience assessing the potency of a particular strain, its potential for virulence, and an expected immune-response in a vaccination-naive population.

I encourage you to continue washing your hands. At least you are acknowledging that pathogenic micro-organisms exist. But influenza is spread primarily through droplets from coughs or sneezes. Wash your hands, wear a mask in public if you have a respiratory illness that causes you to cough and/or sneeze, and get your flu shot.

[littlewolf]

89. amazing ...

you don't know me ... I doubt you
were with me in sick bay ...
I am certain you were not the DR. or
the medic who told me I had the flu.

I never said the flu shot gave me the flu
I said I got the flu even though I got the
shot so the shot was for the type of flu that
wasn't going around that year.

[Aristus]

91. The chances of you getting the strain of flu for which the vaccine did not offer protection are

relatively small. The chances of the vaccine failing to provide immunity every year you received it are vanishingly small. We medical providers can be wrong. I've been wrong about diagnoses in the past. I'm not wrong about this. I try to avoid telling patients what they want to hear just because they want to hear it, but not all providers are that scrupulous; and it's possible yours weren't.

It's not like I don't sympathize. We all enjoy the feeling that we know better than others, due to our isolated incidents. We especially like that feeling if it elevates us in our own estimation above informed individuals with much broader and more relevant experience. We live in a time of universal skepticism, and it is the ubiquity of that skepticism that lulls us into believing that that is superior to empiricism.

Regardless, don't go around discouraging people from getting their vaccines and citing your past history as incontrovertible evidence in favor of your argument.

[Skittles]

98. he doesn't HAVE to know you

HE DEALS WITH PEOPLE LIKE YOU ALL THE TIME

[Kali]

100. !!!

[Aristus]

106. Well, that seems to have shut him up. Thank you, Skittles.

I'm indebted to you...

[littlewolf]

150. seriously ... I just ignore this .. trash the thread

and move on ...

[Ohiya]

140. Good luck, stay healthy...

...we need all our voters!

[Submariner]

86. My Grandfather died during the 1918 Flu Epidemic

My grandmother said he was a strapping lean mean 32 year old who was a never sick a day in his life type of guy.

He was working, everything was okay, but over 3 days became deathly ill.

So, I have positive proof that I may be genetically predisposed to catch the flu....and die, so I opt for my senior double-dose shot each October.

[Wednesdays]

93. Paradoxically, that strain affected healthy young adults the worst

The virus somehow was able to turn one's immune system against itself. Therefore, the mortality rate was higher in young adults than among children and the elderly.

My great-grandfather was 29 years old and died of it, leaving behind a young wife and six children. My grandmother (at 10 the oldest child) took care of the other siblings while her mother worked.

[sarge43]

123. Morality rate in the US was half a million in less than a year.

World wide estimates run from 20M to 50M.

[Beartracks]

88. Done!

==============

[Ohiya]

139. Great, good luck, I'm next week.

[Texasgal]

92. it's required where I work

I am a surgical nurse. Our whole staff from doctors to appointment schedulers are required. I just had mine last week. Our facility is rather large and it took about a week to get everyone. They are also FREE to employees.

[Ohiya]

138. They tried to pass a law here recently saying employees could not be required to get one.

Luckily it failed. I am an RN and its optional where I work. We were giving shots last week this week its our turn.

[NBachers]

103. Got mine last Tuesday

[Ohiya]

137. Great, good luck, I'm next week.

Stay healthy and strong vote early and often.

[sarge43]

122. Got it done today.

Hubby, next week.

Yeah, a flu pandemic would be the cherry atop this crap sundae of a year.

[Ohiya]

134. I'm constantly thinking...

...OK what's next?!?

[sarge43]

144. "What fresh hell is this?" n/t

[Ohiya]

135. Whatever works for you...

... good luck and good health to you!

[rzemanfl]

148. Bookmarking. n/t

[mchill]

127. You probably never had the flu

or one so bad you were hospitalized?

It's not common to get the flu...maybe a few times in one's lifetime....and too many people ascribe "flu" to what's really food poisoning or the common cold.

If you are very young or over about 60, it can kill. Some influenza viruses can kill someone of any age.

[Ohiya]

136. I thought I was going to die the last time I had the flu!

Seriously.

[Freethinker65]

151. Thanks for the reminder. I was just there and forgot. Ugh

[Lifelong Protester]

152. Will get mine Friday.

A sore arm but nothing else.

I've read up on the 1918 pandemic.

In Boston, the stock market closed. In Pa, a statewide order shut down every place of amusement, every saloon. In KY, the board of health prohibited public gatherings of any kind, even funerals.

It would be like today

with our present population as if 1.4 million people were to die in a sudden outbreak for which there was no explanation and no known cure.... David McCullough

[Siwsan]

154. I've never had the flu. Not sure anyone in my family has, either

During the Spanish Flu outbreak, my grandfather used to travel with his priest, to help him give last rites to people dying of the flu. He had, at that time, 4 kids. None of the family ever got the flu. Maybe we just have an advantageous immune system.

My grandfather also used to eat a clove of raw garlic, every morning. I'm a little more aware of the effect that can have on others so I eat my raw garlic at night. Seriously. Every night. I rarely ever even get a cold and I have no fear of vampires. During the 29 years I worked at a big company with LOTS of people, I only ever used one sick day.

When I was in the Navy, flu shots were mandatory. This was a LONG time ago, back when people did sometimes have bad reactions. One year they gave them just before Thanksgiving. Bad idea. Many Thanksgiving dinners were ruined. Mine wasn't. I felt just fine. Anyway, I haven't had one, since then.

I understand that there is a good reason for people with compromised health/immune systems to get them. Maybe I have a subconscious fear that if I DO get a flu shot, that's when I'll get the flu. Yea, probably irrational.

[Awsi Dooger]

155. I got flu and pneumonia shots 2 months ago free at Publix

They wouldn't give me a shingles shot because I'm not yet 60

[Lars39]

156. fwiw, if you get shingles, you can get the vaccine.

My insurance company paid for it too.

[TexasBushwhacker]

163. You get a $5 coupon if you get your shot at Target or CVS

They'll charge your insurance, but no co-pay.