Do you find that Led Zeppelin fans don't like The Who & Vice Versa?

[Algernon Moncrieff]

John Bonham and Keith Moon were two of a kind and friends. Reportedly, Moon is the one that inspired the name "Led Zeppelin" for what had been being billed as "The New Yardbirds." So it's odd, to me, that Who fans I meet tend not to like Zep. I'm a Zep fan, and I've asked Who fans why they feel this way, and the discussions seem to quickly degenerate into trading insults.

Maybe it's the nature of the era: The Beatles or the Stones; Elvis or Buddy Holly; Tupac or Biggie; Prince or MJ. There always seem to be real and contrived rivalries.

[LisaM]

1. I like both very much.

I am definitely a Who fan but I love Led Zeppelin.

[PoiBoy]

2. I like both...

Zep fan first, but really enjoy The Who as well...

[WiffenPoof]

3. My Understanding Concerning The Name Led Zeppelin

When Jimmy Page left The Yardbirds to start a new band, he jokingly said he was going to call the new band " The New Yardbirds." When word got back to The Yardbirds, one of the members stated that it "would go over like a lead balloon." Jimmy decided to play off the insult by calling the new band "Led Zeppelin."

P

On Edit: Personally, I don't think you can put The Who in the same league as Led Zeppelin. Other than the conceptual album "Tommy," I don't think The Who had the same creative drive as LZ. Nor do I think The Who had the same raw talent. In my humble opinion, John Paul Jones alone demonstrated musical skills that to this day are completely underrated. Simply look at his accomplishments away from LZ.

P

[exboyfil]

9. I would put Quadrophenia up against any Led Zeppelin

album. I do agree with you that overall Led Zeppelin had more talent, and I definitely respect them more for not continuing after the death of Bonham. As far as strictly bass playing goes, I have to give the edge to Entwistle over Jones - but I concede your point about Jones' overall musical ability. Obviously Page is a better guitarist than Townsend, but I think Townsend is more creative as a song writer. Plant is the best male vocalist in history and far better than Daltrey. Bonham was a better drummer - more controlled than Moon and more reliable. There is a chance that if Moon hadn't killed himself with his alcohol suppression pills, that The Who would have eventually replaced him.

The difference is that, at The Who's creative zenith, they aspired to more than Led Zeppelin. Two masterful concept albums (Tommy and Quadrophenia), a failed concept album that became a Top 20 of all time album (Who's Next), and extended concept side on an album early in their career (A Quick One).

You also can't get over the fact that some of Led Zeppelin's work borrowed heavily from others (see the haunting opening to Stairway to Heaven). Led Zeppelin was really a super band with many of its members formerly establishing themselves before its founding. The Who like the Rolling Stones and the Beatles grew organically from their youth. The Who is greater than the sum of their parts.

I like both, but I would have been far happier if The Who had stopped after Who Are You. That would have made The Who's output similar to Led Zeppelin. As far as Led Zeppelin Kashmir is simply a gorgeous song that is a delight to hear anytime. It is my favorite. I think I am going to go listen to some Zep now.

At the end of the day it is like the deleted scene from Pulp Fiction - are you a Elvis person or a Beatles person?

[WiffenPoof]

30. Well stated...

It's hard to argue against anything you stated concerning both bands. But a few additional comments...

I failed to mention "Quadrophenia" and it deserves mention. However, in some ways it was a bit of a creative overreach. Not unlike Steely Dan's overproduction of "Gaucho" (the follow-up to their Grammy winning "Aja&quot . They simply tried too hard.

I agree that LZ borrowed more than people are aware. Take their first album. So much was taken from American Blues... Muddy Waters and the like. Still, some of their best work in my opinion.

For me Kashmir is by far the best offering from LZ. There is something about this song that elevates it above all others. Maybe it's the unusual tuning.... Or the driving force of its unique structure. It certainly isn't like anything else by them or others.

One downside of LZ is they would sometimes produce songs that missed the mark. Almost as if they didn't make the effort to fine tune the edges.

I would recommend an album of a concert that Page and Plant did with an Egyptian orchestra... Called I believe "No Quarter." For whatever reason, I consider this album to be what Zeppelin should have been. Songs of note are Four Sticks, Gallows Pole, and an extended version of Kashmir. A must listen.

While the "Celebration" version of Kashmir is probably the best, you can't deny the pure joy and energy of the "No Quarter" version.

https://vimeo.com/80222634

[Algernon Moncrieff]

17. I've heard essentially the same story; however...

I've always heard that Keith Moon is the one that made the comment. "It will go over like a lead balloon....like a ****ing lead zeppelin"

I don't think you can leave out Quadrophenia. In fact, I think the whole "Mods & Rockers" concept aptly describes the Who/Zep fan dynamic I've encountered over the years. On the other hand, the bands have a lot in common -- both emerging from Britain in an era in which the Beatles & Stones forced every band to be better and more creative. Both bands had dynamic, charismatic lead singers; a back beat provided by maniacal, alcohol-fueled drummers; excellent bass, keyboard, and guitar work (no, Townsend isn't Jimmy Page - but he's not chopped liver either). Both continue to get their share of airplay on classic rock radio (admittedly, Zep gets more). Both packed concert halls in the 70s.

[Redleg]

37. The Who is second tier?

You caused me to spit out my drink. I know it comes down to a matter of opinion but most people I know would not put the Who into any tier below Zeppelin and many would put it above Zeppelin. That aside, I think it is absurd to say that the Who had less creative drive than Zeppelin. Each Who album from Tommy to the end was quite different from it's predecessors, most of their music was original music, and four of their works (The Who Sell Out, Tommy, Who's Next, and Quadrophenia) were ambitious and innovative rock projects. The Who had a unique sound and style while trying to continuously adapt their music to Townshend's vision.

I like Zeppelin quite a lot but I wouldn't say they had anything of the creative scope of the four Who albums listed above. Many of their songs, including a good number of their popular songs, were adapted from Blues songs. The Zeppelin musicians were indeed all top notch and their musicianship was innovative but I wouldn't say their music as a whole had more creative drive than the Who.

As for the Who, they also had top-notch musicians and had a unique sound that evolved over time. Pete Townshend may not play Jimmy Page's music as well as Jimmy Page, but he has his own style and has become criminally under-rated as a guitar player. Entwhistle is certainly among the best bass players and Moon is usually ranked near the top of the list for drummers. The Who has a history of outstanding live performances, especially the Live at Leeds concert, which demonstrate their energy and mastery.

I like both Zeppelin and the Who and I don't think it's widely acknowledged that one band was far superior to the other. My personal preferences lean toward the Who but I would never say that Zeppelin were in a different league.

[mdbl]

4. I liked them all.

They each had unique sounds/styles.

[Arkansas Granny]

5. I like both Led Zeppelin and The Who. However, when it comes to

The Stones vs. The Beatles, I'm definitely a Stones fan. I've never cared much for the Beatles.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

18. The funny thing is that the Stones, while very British, have a more American sound

More earthy; more blues driven; more boisterous.

[oberliner]

6. Not at all

Most who like one also like the other.

[NewDealProgressive]

7. I'm a huge Zep fan and I find The Who to be incredibly overrated.

Zep is a Mount Rushmore band, The Who are second tier. I don't hate them, I like some of their songs, I just think they're overrated.

[Redleg]

38. The Who are second tier?

Perhaps for you but not for most people.

[link:|

[NewDealProgressive]

39. I don't put a whole lot of stock in the RNRHOF.

And yeah, it is all subjective but as a musician and a fan The Who couldn't carry Zeppelin's road cases. They're not even close to the same level.

[Redleg]

41. As a musician and a fan

It's a pretty bold statement to say the Who isn't fit to carry Zeppelin's road cases or that they're not even close to the same level. You'll find a lot of musicians and fans who disagree with you. Your attitude confirms the question posted by the original poster.

By the way, the graphic I posted isn't from the Rock and Roll HOF.

[Number9Dream]

8. I like both. All my friends like both. n/t

[exboyfil]

10. You want some entertainment

Read Rolling Stones' Mendelsohn's Led Zeppelin II review;

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/led-zeppelin-ii-19691213


Robert Plant, who is rumored to sing some notes on this record that only dogs can hear, demonstrates his heaviness on "The Lemon Song.

Seriously the first two Led Zep albums where rated unfavorable by RS at release. The third was mixed.

Review not looking good in hindsight.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

19. Rolling Stone has a love/hate relationship with Zep

As you say, it starts badly; then (by the big mid 70s tours) they love Zep; then when the Punk sound starts coming out of London; the Ramones became a thing in New York; and the "New Wave" of the late 70s emerges; they hate Zep again. Zep should have been charter members of the R & R HOF (they weren't), but my impression is that Rolling Stone has pretty well been forced to admit they were wrong about a lot of things.

[Tikki]

11. I am not a fan of led zeppelin, but yes, very much a fan of The Who.

But this is only based on each band's music.

John Entwistle is a bass god.

Tikki

[Algernon Moncrieff]

20. Hey - John Paul Jones is no slouch

They are very different musically, though. But as I posted above - they have a lot in common as well.

[WiffenPoof]

31. Plus...

Let's not forget that JPJ had done a lot of work away from LZ. Production, soundtracks, etc. Very talented.

[WinkyDink]

12. Fan of both here. "Led Zeppelin" was a play on "Iron Butterfly," whoever thought of it.

[Iggo]

13. I went to high school in the 70's, and at the time most of us liked both. (n/t)

[Skittles]

14. that's how I remember it too

I spent part of my teens in England and it was certainly true there

[NewJeffCT]

16. I've not gotten that impression

I graduated high school in the mid 80s from a small mostly white town, so The Who and Led Zeppelin were both very popular in my day. I'm guessing Zeppelin was more popular overall at my high school, but I don't remember any particular hatred, or even dislike, directed at The Who.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

21. I graduated in the early 80s in mostly white suburbia

So by my senior year, Prince was emerging, hip-hop was starting to become a thing, and the music landscape had changed. "In Through the Out Door" came out when I was a freshman, and then Bonham died and the band went on mostly permanent hiatus.

Most people I knew at that time who were into the Who were also into the trendier, emerging music (the Ramones, Blondie, Elvis Costello). Most people I knew who liked Zep also liked bands like Black Sabbath, Aerosmith, and (later) groups like Van Halen and the Scorpions. There was overlap - Pink Floyd's "The Wall" was still hugely popular with both camps. John Lennon also re-emerged and died during this time, and other great music was being made (or had recently been made) by groups like The Eagles and Bob Seger. I also recall the other rock music rivalry of the day -- Led Zeppelin or Lynyrd Skynyrd. Where I grew up, radio stations created endless contrived controversy over asking the musical question "Stairway or Freebird???!!!"

[Tikki]

22. led zeppelin lyrics seemed inconsequential, with lots of, "baby, baby, baby ∞....."

led zeppelin music felt like their own self gratification and The Who, their music, their lyrics seemed
aimed at the importance of youth.

I do agree with your paths forward from each band.


Tikki

[Algernon Moncrieff]

24. I get that for the early stuff. By "Who Are You?" - not so much

Most of the Zep music you describe are from the first two albums in which old blues tunes are "reimagined" or "ripped off", depending on your point of view. There are exceptions in the later work ("Candy Store Rock" from the album Presence).

[Iggo]

23. My Generation was proto-punk at its finest.

You're totally right about the divergence.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

25. A lot of other stuff was going on musically as well.

Springsteen was popular at the time, but hadn't seen that popularity explosion that came shortly after my high school days -- when Born in the USA came out.

Billy Joel was hugely popular. Glass Houses came out when I was in high school, and represented something of a departure from his earlier sound on The Stranger and 52nd Street

The Talking Heads had emerged and were very popular. Dire Straits had also established itself. Devo and the B-52s were popular.

Bands that had been previously popular were on hiatus, and members were doing solo work. So neither the Eagles nor Fleetwood Mac were doing much, but Don Henley and Stevie Nicks did a wildly popular duet. Steve Howe left Yes to join the super-group Asia, while Yes lead singer Jon Anderson was working with Vangelis.

Early hip-hop was emerging. Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five and the Sugar Hill Gang. Prince had emerged onto the scene -- like Springsteen, his explosion in popularity was just over the horizon.

David Bowie was still popular. The stuff that he released during my high school days was a departure from his early and mid 70s music -- the more up-tempo/pop sound of songs like "China Girl" and "Modern Love."

Other groups I remember being popular included AC/DC and Journey. The Grateful Dead were still a popular touring band. The Alan Parsons Project was popular. There were, as always, a number of niche regional bands and one-hit wonders. In pop music, artists like Air Supply, Christopher Cross and Lionel Richie dominated the airwaves. Kenny Rogers was the face of country music.

[montanto]

26. Pink Floyd is the answer. eom

[Algernon Moncrieff]

27. At one time, I knew a lot of people who'd have said "Yes" is the answer

I have the same essential problem with Yes, Rush, and Pink Floyd - each has 1-2 incredible works, and then has some really "meh" albums. So you have "The Wall" and "DSOTM", but also have albums like "Atom Heart Mother", "Animals", and "Meddle" (although I'm fond of "One of These Days&quot .

[OriginalGeek]

29. whoa wait

Animals is one of my top 2 PF records. I love most everything they did up through The Wall.

Rush is solid until about Power Windows - but I still like a few things after that.

Yes...I dunno...I don't think I love any whole album but I do love a few of their songs.

[exboyfil]

33. I agree Animals easily in the top three to five

Pink Floyd albums (after Dark Side and The Wall).

Agree totally with your assessment of Rush. Their early stuff compares favorably with any other band. I thought their downward trajectory started with Grace Under Pressure. I remember getting that album in college and being disappointed. Still a solid band, but I moved on to REM and discovered Dire Straits about that point.

I discovered early Yes after 90125, and I simply love their early work.

Up until I was about 14 (1977) or so and surrendered to rock music, I stood aloof from it. This was because of the personal dynamics of my family. My half brother was big into rock music. So was my dad. I was always compared unfavorable to my brother so it always created tension when he visited. Anything he liked I could not like.

I missed going to a lot of rock concerts that my dad took my brother to in the early to mid-1970s (Alice Cooper, Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd and others I can't remember). On the one hand I regret not seeing them, but on the other hand I am glad that my brother (who did not live with my father) was able to have that time with his dad. Also I am not sure my dad could not afford a third ticket (he was unable to pay the scalper for Led Zeppelin which was a disappointment to him I am sure).

I had my comics and science fiction novels. My brother had his music.

[OriginalGeek]

35. I was sheltered a different way

Didn't really discover anything until I graduated high school and moved out on my own in 1981. Met people who introduced me to everything all at once..(raised in a religious fundamentalist home)

So I got to get a rush of rush and loved them but I hated GUP when it came out. It's grown on me over the years.

I love every single Led Zeppelin track they ever recorded but was just a touch too late to see them live. I've seen Page, Plant and Jones in various configurations dozens of times though and that was kinda close.

That stretch of Pink Floyd albums from DSOTM through The Wall is one of the finest runs in music history and I still love a lot from before it but not as much from after.

Nowadays I listen to 90% death metal and mix in a little of everything else. But zep will always be my favorite.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

40. First, your post above was really good (#9)

90125 came out when I was in college. IIRC, it is Yes with Squires & Wakeman, but without Steve Howe (who was with Asia at that point). It's a little more Pop than earlier Yes albums, but still worthwhile.

You and I are close to the same age (you are like 2 years older). When I was in high school, when most people said "I like Yes", what they really meant was "I like Fragile and The Yes Album. They run a real streak of not particularly well-received albums: Tales from Topographic Oceans (1973), Relayer (1974), Going for the One (1977), and Tormato (1978). I can tell you that these albums could he had for $1-2 in bargain bins at our local record stores in the early 80s. That is not to be construed as hating on Yes. Howe is a brilliant, technically excellent guitarist. Squires and Wakeman were similarly proficient, and Anderson had a trademark, high pitched voice. Personally, I'm a big fan of the Anderson/Vangelis team-up on "The Friends of Mr. Cairo."

I make this point because Pink Floyd isn't rally that different. They were certainly successful in England before they were successful in the US, but when most people say "I like Pink Floyd" they are really saying "I like 'The Wall', 'Wish You Were Here', and 'Dark Side of the Moon.'" I know very few people that are really into "Atom Heart Mother", "A Saucer Full of Secrets", and "Ummagumma." I'd argue that "Meddle" and "Piper at the Gates of Dawn" became more popular after "DSOTM" became popular in the US, and I'd similarly assert that "Animals" wasn't terribly popular when it came out, but when "The Wall" (one of the era's masterworks) came out, people saw it as kind of a stepping stone -- much as LZ III wasn't well received when it was released, but was seen in a different light after "Runes/Untitled/Zozo" and "Houses of the Holy" came out - it was seen as a step from one era to another.

[OriginalGeek]

28. I'm in more than a couple Zep fan groups

And almost everyone I know in those places loves the Who too.

[lame54]

32. You need new friends

[u812n2017]

34. Love Zep

I'm one of those. Never got in to The Who at all.

[NRaleighLiberal]

36. I love them both for different reasons. I've got another one - love the Beatles, so so on Stones

[miyazaki]

42. Don't care for either of them.

[maxrandb]

43. I like both bands, but

If you saw The Who live in their prime, you wouldn't put Zeppelin in the same tier.

In fact, I saw The Who recently with Joan Jett as the opening act. They still fucking kill it at age 70. At one point, the camera showed a close-up of Pete's guitar streaked with his blood.

Best live act ever. Read the reviews of the dessert concert festival The Who played with the Stones, McCartney, Neil Young, Roger Waters and Bob Dylan. The Who blew them away. And let's not forget the way The Who absolutely rescued the concert for New York after 9/11.

Zeppelin was great, but they don't have the depth of The Who