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Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsThe Economist bemoans the decline of the English Language
My comment was this:
In America, we have the distinct disadvantage of the creeping use of Republicanese, a dialect that is doing to our language what a parasite creeping vine does to an oak tree: surrounds it, squeezes it, and then chokes the life out of it.
E.g.: "Republicanese has word's made into plurals with an apostrophe at random. The same word can be made into a plural without the apostrophe, to. It works for you and I as well as non-native speaker's. To be fluent in Republicanese, the trick for you and I would be to pretend we have there education level, and that no one else was graduated beyond the third grade. With they're penchant for reducing education budgets, and therefore loosing qualified teacher's, the Republican Party does go a long way toward achieving there goal."
Link to the article: http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2015/02/johnson-language-anxieties
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,625 posts)It hurts to see you doing this, even though I know you know much better!
I HATE what Republicanese is doing to our beautiful language.
DFW
(54,387 posts)She sometimes rages that immigrant schoolkids from Russia sometimes can write better German than the German kids because the Russian kids actually went to school whereas the Germans grew up inside their smart (sic) phones.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,625 posts)It's not just us!
malthaussen
(17,199 posts)... as a consequence of the Internet: the decline of the use of the formal address in languages that have discrete forms, e.g., calling perfect strangers "du" instead of "Sie," or "tu" instead of "vous." Have you seen this around where you live? I discussed it some years ago with a native of Germany, and she said the formal address is no longer being taught in school.
-- Mal
DFW
(54,387 posts)In German-speaking countries, French-speaking countries (less so in Belgium), and Spain, though less so in Catalan-speaking areas (I used to live in Barcelona as a teenager).
Only in Sweden was the formal 2nd person singular abandoned with any kind of official blessing, and that was in 1970. I remember it so clearly because it was in the middle of the first and second semesters of my first year of taking Swedish in my freshman year. After the Christmas break, the professor returned from her home in Uppsala and said the "ni" form had been done away with except as a plural (as in German and French), and therefore we would now only use the "du" form in class.
Germany, Austria and Switzerland are so stodgy, they'd probably have a civil war over it, and France outside of Paris would probably build a wall around the capital if they decide to do away with "vous" altogether.
Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)I have a friend who is a theoretical linguist. She is a Spaniard. She is fascinated by my diction and vocabulary. Because I come from an area of Mexico/Texas that at one point, and for a brief time, called itself "The Republic of the Rio Grande". An area that is now divided between the sovereign states of Texas, Tamaulipas, Nuevo León, and Coahuila de Zaragoza.
My Spanish accent and vocabulary is heavily influenced by Galician; a Spanish dialect that is no longer the dominant tongue in Spain. But the vocabulary is steeped in Nahuatl; the native tongue of the Mexica (Aztec).
Yet, in all this mixture, I can still read and understand the "Cantares del Mio Cid"; a poem written in Castilian over one thousand years ago.
Whereas English speakers have difficulty understanding Shakespeare from a mere five centuries ago.
It is a puzzle, but it points to the rapid evolution of English and the relative stagnation of Spanish.
Nevertheless, Spanish is evolving as well, and much faster than it has previously done.
On my latest visits to Mexico, after an absence of close to 40 years, I was shocked! Shocked! to be addressed by the familiar tu, instead of the expected 'Usted', by mere waiters.
It was enough to make me clutch my pearls! Oh, my!
But life goes on, I suppose, and people find a way to communicate, even if they have to modify the language to do so.
How long ago was it, that emoticons didn't exist as part of our discourse?
NV Whino
(20,886 posts)I just feel it's disrespectful. I expect they think I'm standoffish. But, I'm sure they laugh at my Spanglish anyway.
Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)You use tu, the familiar, with members of your own class.
You use Usted with members of a different class. Either above, or below.
Members of the ruling class used Usted with their servants, and servants used it with their masters.
A person using tu inappropriately was called an 'igualado' someone pretending or aspiring to be my equal.
So take that into consideration when you address your gardner.
As I said, I am a linguistic fossil.
NV Whino
(20,886 posts)I was taught it was formal vs informal. Or, business vs friend/family.
Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)Everyone else is strictly business.
DFW
(54,387 posts)We were all surprised how easy it was to follow. Our professor was a great guy, had been all over North Africa visiting Ladino communities and played us tapes he had made while he was there.
Although an Anglo, his Castellano was pure Salamanca, and he never lectured in English. We only had one exam, too--the final. He told us we could write it in English or Spanish. He didn't care. He said that he had been speaking Spanish the whole time, so it would be clear in either language whether we had understood the material or not. You'll love this: he told us he used to say his students could write their final exam in any language they wanted, but then got one handed in written in classical Arabic. From then on, he said either English or Castillian, but nothing else!
blogslut
(38,000 posts)A fine reporter but a modern language nudge. 'Twas ever thus.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)ailsagirl
(22,897 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)I had never known that we had that "goodnight" smilie.
Now I'm waiting for the admins to do a version in which the cross is replaced by a colander....
ailsagirl
(22,897 posts)I recalled the grave and the cross and your joke about "literally dying." But I guess it does mean "goodnight"
I never understood THIS:
ailsagirl
(22,897 posts)"A topologist is a man who doesn't know the difference between a coffee up and a doughnut. mathematics."
Glad I asked. I've asked before but no one responded.
Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)ailsagirl
(22,897 posts)A poster on Reddit "...puts the blame for killing English on all of us, the living, but in the wake of public outrage, language experts have pointed out that this sense of literally is nothing new."
http://blog.dictionary.com/literally/
DamnYankeeInHouston
(1,365 posts)DFW
(54,387 posts)If you check the paragraph, there were about fifteen intentional errors to point out the difference between English and Republicanese.