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DFW

(54,387 posts)
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:44 PM Nov 2015

The Economist bemoans the decline of the English Language

My comment was this:

In America, we have the distinct disadvantage of the creeping use of Republicanese, a dialect that is doing to our language what a parasite creeping vine does to an oak tree: surrounds it, squeezes it, and then chokes the life out of it.

E.g.: "Republicanese has word's made into plurals with an apostrophe at random. The same word can be made into a plural without the apostrophe, to. It works for you and I as well as non-native speaker's. To be fluent in Republicanese, the trick for you and I would be to pretend we have there education level, and that no one else was graduated beyond the third grade. With they're penchant for reducing education budgets, and therefore loosing qualified teacher's, the Republican Party does go a long way toward achieving there goal."

Link to the article: http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2015/02/johnson-language-anxieties

23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The Economist bemoans the decline of the English Language (Original Post) DFW Nov 2015 OP
Ouch, my dear DFW! CaliforniaPeggy Nov 2015 #1
My wife sees the same thing in Germany DFW Nov 2015 #2
You know, in a way, that actually helps. CaliforniaPeggy Nov 2015 #3
Another thing I've noticed... malthaussen Nov 2015 #4
It is very much in use, actually DFW Nov 2015 #6
I am a linguistic fossil when it comes to Spanish. In multiple ways Xipe Totec Nov 2015 #10
I still have a great resistance in using tu rather than usted with my gardeners and housekeepers. NV Whino Nov 2015 #12
To set your mind at ease, Usted is used to underline class difference. Xipe Totec Nov 2015 #15
Ah, different take NV Whino Nov 2015 #17
Both are true and correct. The missing information is that you are friendly with friends and family Xipe Totec Nov 2015 #18
I had to take Medieval Spanish to get my degree DFW Dec 2015 #20
I have two words: Edwin Newman blogslut Nov 2015 #5
Ouch. Reading that excerpt, I literally died. (n/t) Jim Lane Nov 2015 #7
sorry-- couldn't resist ailsagirl Nov 2015 #11
No need to apologize -- I learned something. Jim Lane Nov 2015 #13
I thought it had to do with dying but I guess I learned something too! ailsagirl Nov 2015 #16
The first thing I thought of was a very old mathematics joke. Jim Lane Nov 2015 #19
Ah, very clever ailsagirl Dec 2015 #21
Get a ... Xipe Totec Nov 2015 #8
Dumbing Down The Message For the Masses Xipe Totec Nov 2015 #9
Interesting article: "In Defense of the Literal Use of Literally" ailsagirl Nov 2015 #14
their education level, not there education level DamnYankeeInHouston Dec 2015 #22
That was intentional DFW Dec 2015 #23

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,625 posts)
1. Ouch, my dear DFW!
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:56 PM
Nov 2015

It hurts to see you doing this, even though I know you know much better!

I HATE what Republicanese is doing to our beautiful language.

DFW

(54,387 posts)
2. My wife sees the same thing in Germany
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 05:00 PM
Nov 2015

She sometimes rages that immigrant schoolkids from Russia sometimes can write better German than the German kids because the Russian kids actually went to school whereas the Germans grew up inside their smart (sic) phones.

malthaussen

(17,199 posts)
4. Another thing I've noticed...
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 05:10 PM
Nov 2015

... as a consequence of the Internet: the decline of the use of the formal address in languages that have discrete forms, e.g., calling perfect strangers "du" instead of "Sie," or "tu" instead of "vous." Have you seen this around where you live? I discussed it some years ago with a native of Germany, and she said the formal address is no longer being taught in school.

-- Mal

DFW

(54,387 posts)
6. It is very much in use, actually
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 06:13 PM
Nov 2015

In German-speaking countries, French-speaking countries (less so in Belgium), and Spain, though less so in Catalan-speaking areas (I used to live in Barcelona as a teenager).

Only in Sweden was the formal 2nd person singular abandoned with any kind of official blessing, and that was in 1970. I remember it so clearly because it was in the middle of the first and second semesters of my first year of taking Swedish in my freshman year. After the Christmas break, the professor returned from her home in Uppsala and said the "ni" form had been done away with except as a plural (as in German and French), and therefore we would now only use the "du" form in class.

Germany, Austria and Switzerland are so stodgy, they'd probably have a civil war over it, and France outside of Paris would probably build a wall around the capital if they decide to do away with "vous" altogether.

Xipe Totec

(43,890 posts)
10. I am a linguistic fossil when it comes to Spanish. In multiple ways
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:49 PM
Nov 2015

I have a friend who is a theoretical linguist. She is a Spaniard. She is fascinated by my diction and vocabulary. Because I come from an area of Mexico/Texas that at one point, and for a brief time, called itself "The Republic of the Rio Grande". An area that is now divided between the sovereign states of Texas, Tamaulipas, Nuevo León, and Coahuila de Zaragoza.



My Spanish accent and vocabulary is heavily influenced by Galician; a Spanish dialect that is no longer the dominant tongue in Spain. But the vocabulary is steeped in Nahuatl; the native tongue of the Mexica (Aztec).



Yet, in all this mixture, I can still read and understand the "Cantares del Mio Cid"; a poem written in Castilian over one thousand years ago.

Whereas English speakers have difficulty understanding Shakespeare from a mere five centuries ago.

It is a puzzle, but it points to the rapid evolution of English and the relative stagnation of Spanish.

Nevertheless, Spanish is evolving as well, and much faster than it has previously done.

On my latest visits to Mexico, after an absence of close to 40 years, I was shocked! Shocked! to be addressed by the familiar tu, instead of the expected 'Usted', by mere waiters.

It was enough to make me clutch my pearls! Oh, my!

But life goes on, I suppose, and people find a way to communicate, even if they have to modify the language to do so.



How long ago was it, that emoticons didn't exist as part of our discourse?


NV Whino

(20,886 posts)
12. I still have a great resistance in using tu rather than usted with my gardeners and housekeepers.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:02 PM
Nov 2015

I just feel it's disrespectful. I expect they think I'm standoffish. But, I'm sure they laugh at my Spanglish anyway.

Xipe Totec

(43,890 posts)
15. To set your mind at ease, Usted is used to underline class difference.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:08 PM
Nov 2015

You use tu, the familiar, with members of your own class.

You use Usted with members of a different class. Either above, or below.

Members of the ruling class used Usted with their servants, and servants used it with their masters.

A person using tu inappropriately was called an 'igualado' someone pretending or aspiring to be my equal.

So take that into consideration when you address your gardner.

As I said, I am a linguistic fossil.

Xipe Totec

(43,890 posts)
18. Both are true and correct. The missing information is that you are friendly with friends and family
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:15 PM
Nov 2015

Everyone else is strictly business.

DFW

(54,387 posts)
20. I had to take Medieval Spanish to get my degree
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 12:15 AM
Dec 2015

We were all surprised how easy it was to follow. Our professor was a great guy, had been all over North Africa visiting Ladino communities and played us tapes he had made while he was there.

Although an Anglo, his Castellano was pure Salamanca, and he never lectured in English. We only had one exam, too--the final. He told us we could write it in English or Spanish. He didn't care. He said that he had been speaking Spanish the whole time, so it would be clear in either language whether we had understood the material or not. You'll love this: he told us he used to say his students could write their final exam in any language they wanted, but then got one handed in written in classical Arabic. From then on, he said either English or Castillian, but nothing else!

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
13. No need to apologize -- I learned something.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:05 PM
Nov 2015

I had never known that we had that "goodnight" smilie.

Now I'm waiting for the admins to do a version in which the cross is replaced by a colander....

ailsagirl

(22,897 posts)
16. I thought it had to do with dying but I guess I learned something too!
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:09 PM
Nov 2015

I recalled the grave and the cross and your joke about "literally dying." But I guess it does mean "goodnight"

I never understood THIS:

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
19. The first thing I thought of was a very old mathematics joke.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 11:48 PM
Nov 2015

It's said that the definition of a topologist is someone who can't tell the difference between a coffee cup and a doughnut.

Link

ailsagirl

(22,897 posts)
21. Ah, very clever
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 12:15 AM
Dec 2015

"A topologist is a man who doesn't know the difference between a coffee up and a doughnut. mathematics."

Glad I asked. I've asked before but no one responded.

ailsagirl

(22,897 posts)
14. Interesting article: "In Defense of the Literal Use of Literally"
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:06 PM
Nov 2015

A poster on Reddit "...puts the blame for killing English on all of us, the living, but in the wake of public outrage, language experts have pointed out that this sense of literally is nothing new."

http://blog.dictionary.com/literally/

DFW

(54,387 posts)
23. That was intentional
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 11:39 PM
Dec 2015

If you check the paragraph, there were about fifteen intentional errors to point out the difference between English and Republicanese.

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