any plumbers here? this seems just plain effing wierd...

[magical thyme]

The last couple evenings I've been noticing a "warm" draft in the bathroom. Yesterday the heat had just kicked on, so I chalked it up to that.

But just now I could feel it and the heat wasn't running. I followed it right to the toilet. And discovered the tank felt warm instead of cool. And yes, the water was heated. No hot enough for straight hot water, but definitely very warm.

Iirc, the water comes through the pressure pump and then splits into separate pipes. One goes to the hot water heater and the other stays cold. And the cold one leads, among other places, to the toilet.

How the eff is hot water making it into my toilet?!? I see massive waste going on here. I never noticed this before, but there's been no missing it the last couple nights...

[Kali]

1. are you on a well?

do you have a thermometer anywhere? check stuff like the tap water in the sink, the tank of the toilet, in the kitchen, etc.

I have no idea what would cause that unless your water source is just warmer than you think.

although...I swear the local safeway store in town uses hot water in their toilets to heat the rooms in the winter. I have felt the tank and it was freaking hot.

[magical thyme]

3. well water, and it comes out cold, cold, cold

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

2. Where else does the "cold" line go?

To the cold water tap in the bathroom sink? Is it cold there?

Since you mention a pump, I wonder if a failing pump could result in negative pressure, sucking hot water from the tank and back into the shared inlet. This from someone who has no idea about pressure pumps.

Good luck.

[magical thyme]

4. the bathroom sink cold works fine. there is a bit of a drip on the hot

that I'm planning to get fixed as soon as I have the moolah. But that's been there a long time...

Hmmmm...I replaced the pressure pump last year iirc.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

6. If you flush the toilet, can you feel the water that's refilling the tank? Is it warm?

[magical thyme]

8. yup. but it looks like I've been given an answer!

[Frank Cannon]

5. Toilets often use a mixing valve to prevent condensation on the tank.

This valve mixes a little hot water from the water heater with the cold water before it gets to the toilet. These valves can go bad or just need to be adjusted. Follow the water line back from the toilet and see if you see where the two lines might be connected.

(Not a plumber. Just had this problem once and was similarly baffled.)

[magical thyme]

7. ah, thank you...

Now that you mention it, I used to have a problem with condensation on the tank. I'll have to check this out tomorrow. I'm not sure where the lines connect, but it's probably going to involve going places I don't want to go to right before bed

Damn, the things you learn at DU's lounge

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

9. I learned something too. This is better than Late Breaking News!

None of my toilets have a mixing valve, but in the summer, condensation is an issue. Maybe I'll have to look into this.

[edgineered]

10. Never seen a mixing valve for that.

Usually the same pipe that supplies cold water to the bathroom shower, tub, and sink also tees off into to valve to feed the toilet tank. Looking behind your toilet you may see that supply line, it is usually small. Does it pass close to a radiator or is it exposed to direct sunlight at certain times of day? Perhaps a sunlit portion of wall or a radiator is near the toilet? Keep in mind that the toilet can be at the end of the supply line, feeding first the other taps thus they get the cold well water, and then the unmoved water in the toilet supply line heats from a small source.

I am not a licensed plumber, however I spent 10 years supervising an engineering department for a large continuing care retirement community. We had four plumbers.

[edgineered]

11. Replied to wrong post, see post 10 please. nt

[magical thyme]

12. it's no where near any heat source

and this is a lot warmer than sunlight or the radiator would make it anyway, lol.

I can see the pipe that leads into the toilet. The plumbing in 'this old house' is a little strange anyway. I'm thinking set up in a way to keep the pipes from freezing easily, being Maine and all.

Mixing valve makes sense -- there is probably something in the basement.

[edgineered]

13. I'm laughing at myself now, in SW Florida frozen pipes don't exist!

It's time for you to play Sherlock Holmes now, so grab a hat and a pipe (haha)...

[magical thyme]

14. I discovered something else related to the total wierdness of the plumbing here

I've noticed the toilet periodically seems to almost flush itself. It's always been this way.

The water in the bowl and tank were both room temp this morning. Then I ran the hot water in the kitchen to make my horse's mash.

When I turned off the water, I could hear the toilet "running." Checked the water -- warm water was now circling through the toilet and the tank wall was starting to warm up.

When I noticed the warm water last night, it was a short while after I'd showered. No wonder my gas bill is always so high. Gah.

Basement. In 'this old house?'

[edgineered]

15. A step; it won't solve the entire mystery

It sounds like the float valve in the (toilet) tank is either faulty or set too high. I believe that you know the basics, check to see if the water level in the tank is at the top of the fill tube - bend the bar, shorten the chain, whatever to bring the level down. Now you'll want to see if increased water pressure is passing the valve seal.

[magical thyme]

16. you give me more credit than I deserve, lol...

If the fill tube is what I'm guessing it is, the water was right about at that level. I'm judging based on the sulfur stains (acid rain).

Of course, the first thing I did was bend the float thing the wrong way and start the toilet running Then I realized what I'd done and bent it the other way until it stopped running. Then I bent it some more and now I have to lift it bit to get it to run. The water now looks to be a little below (1/4" or so) of what I'm guessing was the previous level (because I forgot to check it between here and the bathroom. just started fritzing with the float thing).

Now, assuming that I've guessed correctly what the fill tube is (the tube thing on the left that the water seems to emerge from at the bottom), what is the valve seal and how will I know water is passing it?

[edgineered]

17. There are many types

Basically, water comes into the bottom of the float valve. Some of the water fills the tank while a hose reaches over to the top of the fill tube. The water that is diverted to the fill tube is what refills the empty toilet bowl. To sum it up so far, the water line is connected to the float valve through the bottom of the tank. When the float goes down the valve opens and water swirls into the tank and fills it. If water wasn't piped into the fill tube the tank would be full and the bowl would be empty.

If you've got 1/4" of tube showing above the water, that's fine. I like a little more though. Optimally the rod holding the float doesn't need to be bent; there should be a screw near the hinged end that adjusts it, but with corrosion and deposits it is better not to mess with it. Now, keep the lid off of the tank and go to the sink or tub and run the hot water while watching the float level. If the float rises you will need to replace the vavle assembly.

Let me know what you find.

[edgineered]

18. Sorry to run away now,

but I'll be back tomorrow night. In the mean time don't try adjusting any valves unless you are sure of yourself or someone is guiding you. Deposits inside valves make them difficult to turn and forcing them can damage the gland or the seal. If that happens either you will end up with a leak (or worse) or water that won't stop running.

[magical thyme]

20. thank you so much!

In that case, the water is level with the fill tube (with the hose running into it). Looks like the handle is connected to the fill tube and lifts it when flushed. I'm going to leave the top off to watch the next time I flush.

Running hot water didn't change the float or start anything running.

And, NO, no way I'm touching anything on my own here!

[Laffy Kat]

21. You've got a potty poltergeist.

VERY hard to get rid of. Try flushing some holy water down the drain. If that doesn't work you'll need to call in an exorcist.

[magical thyme]

22. this whole place needs an exorcist.

Someday I'll tell you the story of the smudging.

[Laffy Kat]

23. Do tell!!! I wanna know. nt

[WinkyDink]

19. I once stayed in a hotel room with scalding-hot toilet water. Don't know the cause of it!

[kristopher]

24. Water heaters heat cold water, the water expands back into the cold water feed line.

When you use hot water it is taken out of the tank from near the top of the tank. It is replaced by cold water that enters a long internal pipe at the top of the tank to deliver the cold water through the hot water to the bottom of the tank where convection carries it up to be heated by the heating element(s).

When you run low on hot water and the tank refills with mostly cold water, as the entire tank of hot water becomes heated, it expands back into the feed-in line, sometimes a considerable distance. It will cool off relatively soon, but IF the expansion pushed into the section feeding the toilet, and IF you flush the toilet before the water cools, it could introduce hot/warm/warmer water into the toilet tank than would otherwise be the case.

I'm not a plumber but I did see a Roto-Rooter commercial once.

[magical thyme]

25. makes sense. as far as the "self-flushing" toilet, it seems the tiny adjustment I made to the float

fixed it. That was happening most of the time after I ran water, but sometimes just randomly.

thanks all!