What would you do? (marital 'infidelity'?)

[trof]

My friend's wife told him she had 'feelings' for a guy at work.
Has a 'special relationship' with him.
Wanted some 'space' to 'work things out'.
She claims no sex.
Just 'feelings'.

He is one of the best and nicest guys I've ever known.
They have two young daughters.
And he's always been the primary parent/care giver to them.

She earns big bucks and he lost his job last year (mortgage business).
They decided he would be a stay-at-home dad while she was the 'breadwinner'.
It really made sense, and they both seemed to be OK with that.

He is just devastated and I think she's a jerk.
'No sex' with this 'feelings' guy?
Yeah, right.
Pull the other one.

This all happened a few weeks ago.
He's over the initial shock, but still floundering.
I said 'Get a lawyer, NOW!'

Comments?

[boston bean]

1. leave her, fast

no one deserves to be treated like that.

It's cruel.

[madinmaryland]

2. "where there is smoke, ..."

Yeap. Good advice is to speak to an attorney.

[pipi_k]

4. I believe people

should do whatever they can to figure out if the marriage can be saved (via therapy).

First, of course, both spouses have to want to save it.

If only one wants to save it, then yes...all bets are off and getting a lawyer is the next thing to do.

[boston bean]

8. this is my take. to stick around with someone treating you like that

you are only lengthening the time they will treat you like that.

From my worldly experience, I believe this woman is unsure if she really wants to leave her husband and put her kids through that. So, instead of asking for a divorce (something she might regret), she asks for some space to at the very least emotionally cheat on her husband.

The quicker he stops being a doormat, the sooner his wife will make the decision on staying or going and he can keep some respect for himself. No one likes a mushy, i need you, i can't live without you, don't leave me, in this type of situation. It pushes people even further away, and gives them permission to keep treating you like that.

Because putting up with that BS, you might as well tattoo sucker on your forehead. She will not respect him and even fall further out of love.

If he leaves and she decides to not go back to him, well, that is how it was going to be in the end anyhow.

[pipi_k]

10. But people here

are emotionally UN involved enough to sit and say he should get divorced, when that's not an easy thing to do.

I've been on both sides of this equation...both the cheater, and the one cheated on.

My experience is that a person who cheats is expressing things s/he can't verbalize and so the person acts out anger or frustration.


Also...these sorts of things are not always one sided. I'm not saying the husband has cheated, but perhaps (in spite of how people want to view him as being a "victim&quot he also has a part in this whole drama.

Did he cause her to cheat? No. But maybe their relationship isn't meeting her emotional needs because he is emotionally distant.

Nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors. What people need from each other and what they can or can't provide.

In any case, counseling seems to be in order here, either as a couple, or individually. If she doesn't want to go, then that's that.

But the bottom line here is...people who find themselves being "doormats" for others also have issues that need to be addressed...one of the most important one being WHY they attract people who walk all over them. Once they figure out what attracts them to people who treat them like dirt, they stop attracting people who treat them like dirt.

In any case, the opinions we're all giving here are just that...opinions...and the guy is going to do what he wants to, no matter what anybody here thinks.

[boston bean]

12. Of course it's just advice.

many people get it when in situations like this.

My advice is that if he wants her back, be strong and don't let her walk all over him. I would give the same advice to a woman who was being cheated on.

If he continues acting as if he has no option, he will only prolong the madness.

[pipi_k]

14. But it's not merely

a matter of being strong and not letting her walk all over him.


Maybe he acts like he has no option because he really feels like he has no other option. Like he's trapped.

No job. Children. He probably still loves her.

I'm not even sure a marriage counselor would advise him to "be strong" and not let her walk all over him. To do so would, IMO, reinforce whatever victim feelings he might already have and make her the bad guy when she isn't.

I believe they need a third party intervention here in the form of a counselor who can help them figure out if the marriage is worth saving, from the POV of both of them.

If they get through that process and find they no longer care, then it's time to end it.

Again, we don't even know if he is the one who's really being walked all over here, in spite of her cheating...

What sort of story would SHE have?

[boston bean]

15. who knows???

I have one simple rule. If you are being cheated on, you do not stay in the relationship and let someone continue to cheat on you.

[seabeyond]

26. me. too.

but then hubby has the same rule. we understand each other.

cheat, and pretty much figure the marriage is over. so, might as well ask for a divorce before selling self out and cheating.

[riderinthestorm]

35. Yup me too seabeyond and boston bean. My husband and I had that convo before we were even married

If one of us got the urge to cheat, and we didn't either rein it in or get ourselves to a marriage counselor, and we carried it out - well then the marriage was finished.

It was non-negotiable for either of us. I've never wanted an open marriage and neither did he. If our marriage was in such jeopardy we were going to cheat then there are only two options; get counseling and try to make it work, or end it.

[boston bean]

37. We had the same discussion.

It is just something I could never do to another person. Doesn't make me special, but it's a line I would not cross.

If I was unhappy in the marriage, I wouldn't look to another. I would take care of whatever business needed to be taken care of. Either trying to work it out, or get a divorce.

[IndyJones]

52. We've had that discussion, too. You are in our you're out. No sitting on the fence.

If I'm at the point of cheating, then it's time to move out. That not only disrespects my husband, but my children, as well. I am not going to do that and I'm not going to tolerate that from him ever. But if I suspected he was acting like a douche, I'd call his mother and she'd fly out and kick his ass.

[pipi_k]

36. It's sad when people

treat marriage like it's disposable.

When one person cheats, it's a family problem that, in many cases, can be resolved.

Also...there is absolutely no proof whatsoever, besides people's suspicion, that the wife has physically cheated.

Maybe her admission of emotional cheating is a warning shot of some kind...a cry to her husband that she is not getting what she needs from him, and she wants him to HEAR her before she does cheat physically.

If that's the case, and if he can't provide for her emotional needs, then perhaps it's best that they do end the marriage.

These things don't happen in a vacuum.

Anyway, it's pretty easy to say that if one's own partner cheated, the marriage would be over when one isn't in the thick of things.

And now I'm done here because this has gotten way beyond my original point, which was that I believe people need to do what they can to save the marriage if...and only if...BOTH people want to save it.

If the wife in this case doesn't want to save the marriage, then all of this is just meaningless.

[boston bean]

38. Nothing happens in a vacuum, you are right.

But that doesn't mean you should be someone's door mat.

The poster has told you she doesn't want marriage counseling. We only know one side of the story.

I'm not invested in this at all. I do not know these people. But I do know human nature and a mind of my own.

People should not be seeking any relationship outside the marriage if they are unhappy. You do that after you have exhausted all other means and after you have extricated yourself from the marriage.

[Major Nikon]

42. Cheating is just a symptom of marriage problems, not the actual problem itself

Very few people cheat in a happy marriage, and those that do generally have individual problems. Cheating almost always results from the breakdown of the marriage itself, which often can be fixed. Lots of peoples marriages survive cheating and some are stronger afterwards because generally it forces the marriage into a crossroads where things either have to get better or disolve.

So I agree. If both sides are committed to fixing it, then it can happen, and if kids are involved they should at the very least give that path some serious consideration.

[boston bean]

55. That is true, but that doesn't mean

you sit back and let them treat you like that.

As a matter of fact, the less you let someone treat you like a door mat, the better your chances are of salvaging the marriage.

If you don't have enough respect for yourself not to allow that shit, then don't expect the other person to.

[Major Nikon]

75. The hardest part is coming to terms with what caused the breakdown of the marriage

This usually involves both sides taking responsibility for the role they played. I have no idea what caused the breakdown of the marriage mentioned by the OP, but one of the most common causes is contempt which is toxic to marriage(or any relationship for that matter). So let's say one side treats the other with contempt for many years, and then the other side goes out and cheats on them. Who treated whom "like a door mat" in that situation? It's very easy to get caught up in the belief that it was one side that caused the breakdown of the marriage, but in almost all instances it was both sides that contributed to the problem.

[boston bean]

76. seeking solace outside the relationship, is a what is wrong, no matter what!

you aren't happy, you do something about it. counseling, work it out, get a divorce.

that is my message.

[Major Nikon]

82. Actually in the vast majority of cases that's just a symptom and not the actual problem

By the time it gets to that point, there's already a lot that has gone wrong in the marriage. And being happy is not necessarily the answer either. Some people live with chronic depression and still manage to maintain successful marriages. Most of the time it really boils down to how people deal with conflict and how they communicate with each other. All marriages will have conflict. Some of that conflict may never be settled, but generally most can. When couples don't deal with their conflicts, this leads to contempt and contempt erodes the marriage. Cheating generally happens towards the end after a lot of other things have gone wrong. Even when marriages get to this point, it doesn't mean the marriage is nonredeemable. Lots of couples manage to get past infidelity and rebuild troubled marriages. But in order to do this they have to address the actual problem, and not just the symptoms.

Furthermore these things don't just apply to marriage. They apply to pretty much all relationships including professional, friendships, and all types of family relationships.

[boston bean]

83. I understand they get past it. He needs to let her know this is unacceptable.

That he is not her door mat and that she needs to make a decision right now, or get out.

[GliderGuider]

108. Major Nikon, you speak the truth.

That agrees with my experience. The externally perceived morality of the partners' behaviour has little-to-nothing to do with the success of the relationship. I've been in a number of different styles of relationship, and as long as the conflict management, communication and basic honesty are intact they thrive. Whenever any of those go south, so does the relationship.

[Major Nikon]

111. There's a lot of new information regarding what makes for good relationships

Many of the long held beliefs, even those held by professionals, is just wrong. Many believe that you just have to communicate each others needs in order to have a good relationship. The reality is it's not just communication, but how you communicate that matters. Many used to believe if you argue all the time you are destined for divorce, but this is not necessarily true. Many couples that argue often live in very productive relationships. My grandparents bickered all the time, but they stayed married for over 50 years and they had a great marriage. The key was they knew when to stop bickering and they knew how to deflect each other before things got too heated. They also knew how to resolve most of their conflicts (mostly because I think one or the other knew when it wasn't worth it to keep pushing). If one or both parties get into the mindset that they have to win all arguments, this is a sign of trouble. Much of it also has to do with the way in which you speak to each other and how they manage their emotions. If you treat your SO with contempt or both sides behave this way, the relationship is in trouble. The same is very much true for children. If you treat them with contempt, that's what they learn, and they are probably going to start giving it back to you at some point. It's like the father that shot holes in his daughter's laptop. He had a tremendous amount of contempt for her. It's pretty easy to see where they went wrong if you know where to look. It's also just not true that when a relationship gets to the point of cheating that it's always over. Couples can and do resolve these things all the time, but they have to know how to attack their actual problems, and not just the symptoms. Unless you plan on living as a hermit, it behooves everyone to learn how to treat each other in their relationships. If you do it the right way, happiness and contentment follow. If you do things wrong, you're destined for pain and misery.

It's amazing how much you can improve your relationships by practicing these things. It even works with animals. The movie The Horse Whisperer, was based on a real guy that learned how to train horses without using contempt. When those same principles were applied to people, amazing things happen. It works with friends, it works with employees, it works with relatives.

[GliderGuider]

112. Thanks for that excellent piece!

[riderinthestorm]

113. Yikes the Horse Whisperer is not about contempt! It's about working with an animal's instincts

herd dynamics and alpha relationships. Your analogy to this movie is deeply, deeply flawed and troubling.

Real life horse trainers who do round pen work (like my husband) aren't really "horse whisperers", they've simply mastered the psychology of horses and use it masterfully. Primarily they force (yes force) the horse to run around that circle until they are tired and turn and face the trainer thus acknowledging them as the alpha. Its not a contemptuous relationship but it IS definitely premised on the psychology of herd dynamics which certainly operate fundamentally on alphas and betas.

Stallions fight viciously for dominance. When a human asserts that dominance they must use other skills, tricks, and techniques than a fight. However, even John Lyons - the guy whose made a fortune off this technique - will tell you "if a horse bites you once, that's a problem. If they bite you twice, you didn't hit them hard enough the first time." Horses use their entire arsenal of force when fighting for dominance and those of us in the biz know and understand that sometimes you have to be the bigger bully. That doesn't mean beating the shit out of an animal - most times its a stern verbal rebuke (if you've done your training correctly).

Human relationships are NOTHING like this. While the most successful horse/rider partnerships revolve around mutual respect, the human is always clearly the alpha.

[Major Nikon]

118. There are plenty of parallels that can be drawn

And the alpha/beta characteristics which you appear to believe only apply to herd animals are actually terms which are used in the study of most social animals and particularly primates, which humans happen to belong. So while this may not apply directly to most western sexual relationships, it most certainly does apply to humans and examples can be found in all sorts of instances. So to claim that human relationships are "NOTHING" like this is just wrong. So while I don't really find your apparent ignorance to be particularly troubling, I do find it deeply flawed (just one deeply though).

No analogy is a direct comparison and it's quite silly at best and disingenuous at worst to claim otherwise. You're simply pointing out the obvious differences while ignoring the similarities. If my analogy troubles you so much, you might want to spend some time learning about what creates successful and unsuccessful human relationships. Furthermore I'm not suggesting that horse training methods can be used directly on people, as you seem to incorrectly infer, but rather the opposite, which is that good human relationship skills can be applied to animals.

[riderinthestorm]

121. You tried to make an analogy using alpha/beta relationships, applying them to a marriage partnership

25 years married (28 years together) tells me you are very wrong to try to draw a comparison between herd dynamics and a human marriage.

Furthermore, I have never formed friendships, partnerships, or even business relationships using alpha/beta herd dynamics with any human being I've ever met. Oh I've certainly seen it done (politicians, authoritarians, patriarchal relationships for example) but that doesn't mean they are models for our society or culture.

[Major Nikon]

122. Hogwash

As I pointed out to you in my last post, you have taken what I wrote and turned it around completely backwards. I said that these principles could be applied to animals. I did NOT say the reverse no matter how many times you claim I did. Your wishing it were so for some strange and unknown reason does not make it so. For the cheap seats, this is exactly what I said, verbatim...

It's amazing how much you can improve your relationships by practicing these things. It even works with animals. The movie The Horse Whisperer, was based on a real guy that learned how to train horses without using contempt.

Either you didn't understand what I wrote, or you're simply trying to put words in my mouth for the sake of being argumentative. No reasonable person could honestly make the inference you're making. I didn't say anything close to what you're alleging, and I even went to the effort of clarifying what should have been a very straightforward and easy to understand assertion. You're really getting in deep here and I'm not going to get into a big drawn out fight on the Lounge. I'm not going to continue to argue on what you think I said. I've laid it out quite clearly for you. If you simply refuse to acknowledge your error, or refuse or are unable to understand what was written and clarified, I can't help you any farther.

Cheers!

[classof56]

125. Not sure if this is relevant, but in the book The Horse Whisperer, the main female character

cheated on her husband with...The Horse Whisperer.

I'm no expert on marriage, only been wed for 45 years to the same spouse, but we have always placed a premium on fidelity. Has worked fine so far, and we're aiming for the Big 50. I'm guessing we're now too old to stray, even if we had a hankering to do so.

Only marriage advice I ever give people who ask is--keep your sense of humor!

Blessings.

[IndyJones]

53. She needs to make a choice and until she does, she should move out. She made a vow and she's

going to keep it or not. But until she decides, she shouldn't disrespect her family by sitting on the fence and entertaining another life. If you allow someone to straddle the fence, then you open yourself up to being a doormat.

[IndyJones]

51. I agree. You are a doormat or you're not. If he lets her go down that path, he loses respect and

trust. Trust is a tough thing to ever get back.

[trof]

9. He's seeing a shrink. He's asked her to go to family therapy.

He's coming back now, facing reality, but he was a basket case for a while.
She won't go to family therapy with him, but did agree to see a shrink.
She reported to him that her shrink said she was perfectly fine.
He said "Did you tell him EVERYTHING?"
I don't think so.

I think he's on Xanax now.

[pipi_k]

16. We're getting

one side of the story here.

His.

There's always another side. Always.

Like I asked in a post above....

I wonder what her side of the story would be...about their private life together, I mean.

[Major Nikon]

43. Sounds like she's not willing to admit she's part of the problem

My guess is she's blaming everything on him.

[Wait Wut]

5. He's probably scared.

You're right to suggest an attorney, but you may need to take that extra step and help him follow through.

She's obviously gone. He needs to think about himself and the girls. Those kids don't need to see their mother treat their father like that.

Get him out for some fun. Make her stay home with the kids for a nite or two. He deserves a break and needs time to clear his head. Try to keep his thoughts as positive as possible. Instead of telling him how useless his (soon to be ex) wife is, focus on him and the kids. Keep her name and existence out of all of your conversations. When he brings her up, guide the conversation away from her. Hopefully, he'll eventually be able to get out without much psychological damage if he thinks of her as already being gone.

Talk about all the things you and he can do together with the kids. Remind him he's not alone.

And, if you get the chance...slap her silly. "Special relationship". Fuck.

[ohiosmith]

6. CALL A LAWYER RIGHT FUCKING NOW!

[Gormy Cuss]

17. +1

but for the OP, no one really knows what they'd do in those shoes, not even those who have divorced. Couple dynamics are as variable as couples. Having said that though, there's no harm in talking to a lawyer to get some sense of what may happen if she officially calls it quits.

[quakerboy]

71. Or to look at his options for proactively doing so

It sounds like he is pretty clearly not ok with having a relationship where you provide the partner with "space" to "work out" a relationship with a new 3rd party. No reason he is stuck waiting on her, as she has made her lack of commitment to him explicit already.

[seabeyond]

7. i think.... an i dont know cause havent experienced

but knowing me, and cool with me on my own, where i am in life

i think i would say, thank you for the 18 yrs. take care.

[Taverner]

19. Yep. See a lawyer.

And see? We agree on some things...

[seabeyond]

23. we always have

probably always will.

[Taverner]

25. Honestly, I think despite our views on vice, we mostly agree

Spark up?

[seabeyond]

28. i was telling a friend

as i am getting older and not remembering as well... (and lack of sleep makes it hard), i read fish, pot and coffee help with dementia.

so there you go. coffee, pot, fish, pot, coffee....

[Taverner]

29. I love love love Salmon

I miss eating Chinook Salmon in Oregon

California, for all of its greatness, is lacking in the Salmon dept

And the GOOD trout dept

I caught some lake trout up in Diamond Lake a few years ago that would make you faint on the spot it was so good

[seabeyond]

30. and i miss calif and all the fish i got there. nt

[Taverner]

31. Whaddya want?

You do know you can ship fish frozen via FedEx....just has to have a signer (well, that and some Dry Ice)

[riderinthestorm]

11. 1. Get a lawyer. Today

2. If she won't agree to go to marriage counseling, today, then its time to have "the talk" and force some action. Staying in limbo land will emotionally devastate him (while she gets to play around). If she won't go, then decisions have to be made to make the separation legal and clear - about visitation, who gets to stay in the house, $$$, - all of it.

3. She IS sleeping with the other guy already, he knows that right? If not, then you must inform him in no uncertain terms. She is jeopardizing HIS health by sleeping around. He should get tested for STDs pronto.

4. His wife is treating him terribly. His self-esteem must be pretty low to endure this kind of disrespectful behavior from her. He really needs some (more?) support from his friends and family to bolster his will to get tough with himself and her and model better behavior (for his kids sake, if nothing else) than being a doormat.

[Drahthaardogs]

116. Self esteem? IT is not about self esteem.

You know what it is like to be a man with small children? He has a choice, put up with a cheating wife or lose your kids. Dad's get the shaft in our legal system to this day. It is not fair.

For example, in THIS situation, he is the the stay at home parent. Children should go to him and HE should get alimony. Who wants to lay bets she gets the kids and pays him nothing?

[Moondog]

13. If you mentally change the genders of the parties

so that your friend becomes "the wife / mother" and his wife becomes "the philandering husband", the answer becomes obvious.

Retain counsel now. File suit tomorrow.

Get the house, and the kids. The money will follow the kids. Then clean her out. And she will become his indentured servant for the next ten or twenty years.

Your friend, fairly or unfairly, lost his wife's respect when he became her househusband. It's over. And if he takes her back he is a fool.

[denbot]

20. infidelity is not a gender issue.

His role was not a gender change, and her behavior is not gender specific. He should NOT leave the home until he speaks with an attorney.

[Moondog]

22. I'm not suggesting that he leave the home.

I am suggesting that he have a court order her out of the home.

And, oh, I've been an attorney for nearly 40 years. Been to this rodeo a few times . . . .

[Taverner]

18. Get a lawyer indeed

[MrScorpio]

21. I guess an open marriage is out of the question.

Lawyer up!

[GliderGuider]

109. Those are hard enough to negotiate going in, let alone after the papers have been signed.

When your monogamous partner comes to you after a number of years and says, "Hey dear, what would you think about opening up our marriage?" the appropriate response is, "Oh, shit!"

[KG]

24. he needs to punch a motherfucker in the face.

[OriginalGeek]

47. Seriously this.

Because there is a motherfucker at work who knows a woman is married and also knows she is vulnerable/dissatisfied/whatever for whatever reason and instead of backing away from the whole thing he is in there battering at her hatches and, no matter what she says it is, he wants to fuck her.


yeeeeessssss, I knowwwwwwwww, violence is bad blah blah blah......So lets say OP's friend isn't gonna punch a motherfucker in the face - he needs to make that motherfucker believe like the pope believes in Jesus that he is ready and willing to to punch a motherfucker in the face.

[cliffordu]

61. Yep. Fix it so the motherfucker can't kiss anyone for a month or two.

[siligut]

27. This is just sad

I don't know enough about them to say what the best thing to do is. I have seen the female in relationships fall out of love with their husbands when the husband lost his job/money. In both cases, I was irritated with the females. The economy has been tough on relationships. I already don't like the wife in your story and with that, I say, he should move on and find a woman who appreciates him. It really is so sad.

[pipi_k]

40. It is, and this is

the problem with one-sided stories.

One person can be made out to be a villain while the other person is the innocent victim.

My parents divorced when I was about 13 or so.

My mom cheated on my dad. He never missed work. Tried his best to provide for us. He was a good and honest man.

I could make my mom out to look like the most horrible person ever.

But there's another side to the story.

As good a man as my dad was, he was also an alcoholic with some mental problems. He wasn't above hitting her...or us kids. He broke her jaw with a beer bottle one time. Tried to strangle her (the marks on her neck were embarrassing at my 10th birthday party).

So who is the villain here? Who is the victim?

And you know what?

Nobody outside the immediate family knew.

So if I had told anyone either side of the story, the person I squealed on would have looked like a monster, and the other would be the victim.

This is the problem with one-sided stories.

[siligut]

41. Aw, pipi, I'm sorry

Alcoholism is such a terrible disease, it ruins things like nothing else can. When there is abuse, with or without the alcoholism, the best thing to do is get away from that person. People stick around, hoping it will change, but that is usually unrealistic unless the person seeks help.

I am in complete agreement regarding the problem with one-sided stories. Trof's story just reminded me of the two cases I know of, where the woman was no longer happy with the man after he lost his money/job. That says to me that the woman didn't really love the man and I believe love is important in a relationship

[Major Nikon]

44. The problem is almost always two sided

People generally want to assign blame on one side or the other, but most of the time both sides are to blame in varying degrees.

[Sugarbazooka]

32. Take an objective look.

Well, that really stinks... especially with children involved. The first thing to do, though, is to take an objective look. In order to do that, you have to take all the feelings and blame out of the equation. You have to just look at the situation as it is and admit that things are just as they are, regardless of who is the "bad guy" and who is the "victim." Once you take the emotions and blame out, it makes it much clearer to see what your options are and what is the right thing to do. Concern numero uno.... THOSE CHILDREN. Don't let them get caught in the middle of a drama. Do whatever you have to to protect them and keep them safe emotionally, physically and financially. And then he can ask himself two things... 1) "Is there any chance that this relationship can be repaired?" and 2) "If it was possible to repair it, would I want to badly enough to do what it would take?" I think that would be a good start. And remember... those are only questions HE can answer.

[elleng]

33. Haven't looked at the other replies,

but I vote, firmly, for STAY. Seeking divorce/separation awful for everyone, here could force him to allege infidelity, doesn't sound like good facts in support of such allegation, AND the kids WILL be adversely affected.

Keep family together as long as possible, let her/force her to keep working for/paying for the family.

JMHO

[mysuzuki2]

34. If she needs some "space" give it to her.

She can move out, get her own "space". Pay child support. Visit the kids every other weekend.

[dana_b]

39. "space" is not what they need IF she wants to work this out

that will only create more room/time for temptation. Counseling, therapy, etc. and communication is what they need if it is to be. otherwise I think your advice to him was solid. Poor guy.

[nolabear]

45. I say stay out of it.

Let them work on it together, either to stay together or to break up as compassionately as possible for the kids' sake. Your investment in things is in your best interest, and though it might seem like it, not necessarily in theirs.

They need time to talk together and get past the understandable rage and confusion so maybe, just maybe they can do what they do with the least amount of harm.

[auntAgonist]

46. This is the best advice IMHO.

[DFW]

48. One unanswered question

What's the situation of the "guy at work?"

Is he single, married, separated, what? The advice to your friend, if you dare get involved,
would hinge greatly upon the answer to that question.

Also--you said your friend is devastated. Because he really wants to keep his wife and their
marriage, or because he doesn't, or because he isn't sure one way or the other?

But since I don't know any of the parties involved (luckily for me!), in the immortal words of Tom Lehrer,
that's not my department (says Wernher von Braun).

[trof]

54. He's married.

[DFW]

60. In that case

Still not knowing much about all this, I'd say that if your friend's wife harbors no illusions of her
co-worker leaving his wife, she should harbor no illusions about any affair having any chance of
a future. If, after all that, she still wants to pursue him, then she needs to get real (and honest)
with your friend and tell him their marriage has no future, either.

[seabeyond]

73. honestly, who would want a pos that would not only do this to her man, but another woman

and family she does not know.

there are so few expectations in my life, but one is a sense of character with the people i allow... (works both ways).... around me. what kind of person would not only hurt her family but no issue with hurting another either. i dont think much of that person. would make it a zillion times easier walking away, cause i would not respect that person. lack of respect is the relationship killer.

says so much about her character

[seabeyond]

79. with ya. i can understand a mate falling out of love. but to do it with a married person...

that says something about you, not your relationship.

i dont think i do emotional bond/connection the same as a lot of others. i dont get it.

[jobycom]

49. Any answer you read on here is completely worthless

because none of us know any of these people. And honestly, you probably don't, either, since you've heard mostly one of the three sides. Maybe she's going through an emotional hell right now, too, and can't tell what to feel or do. Maybe she's selfish. Maybe the other guy is playing her to bed her. Maybe he's really in love. Maybe your friend has been unresponsive in some way that his wife really needed him to be better at, and this guy is her cry for help in that area. Maybe she'll come around in a short time and realize what she's doing, or done.

Maybe she hasn't done anything sexual yet. Maybe she has. Maybe she's already decided, and nothing your friend does can change it, or maybe she's screaming inside for the right answer, the right gesture from him, something to help her get her emotions under control.

There's no advice anyone here can give that will help your friend. He's going to hurt, no matter what. She's going to hurt, too, probably. In the long run the only decisions that will matter are the ones they make with each other. You should support your friend, but not advise him. What if you convince him to leave, and six months from now he regrets that, or worse, finds out that she wasn't going to choose the other guy? He may blame you, and hurt more because of it. If he wants to call her vile names to you, listen, but don't volunteer any of your own. They have to work this out, no matter how painful it becomes, or what decisions they make.

And for the record, I've been in love with a married woman, and we've talked about her leaving him for me. She didn't, and we didn't have sex. Don't assume. You either know for sure, or you don't know.

[IndyJones]

50. Um, NO. A BIG, FAT NO FREAKING WAY!

I am very sorry for the guy. But that is BS. She is putting her "feelings" over her family. Not just her husband, but her two daughters as well.

If it were me? I'd kick her butt out and start proceedings. She can figure out what she wants to do after she's out. I'm sorry, but you get a divorce before you "explore your feelings". That's just wrong.

[dr.strangelove]

56. I suspect its too late, but I would try to save things while protecting myself NOW

He needs legal counsel or a marriage counselor. I would try the latter first, but there is nothing to stop him from seeing the first at the same time.

Call an attorney and start to prepare for the worst case. At the same time, tell her you want to work on the marriage and see if it can be saved. If it can, great. If not, the lawyer will tell him what he needs to do to protect assets now and be sure his children are protected. Likewise, the other man can be investigated to see if he is the type that the children should not be around. Getting a head start on the worst case scenario while not throwing in the towel would serve him well. Lawyers do not always mean divorce, but if its coming, why not be ready. If the marriage can be saves, consider it good insurance that he never needed.

[PassingFair]

57. He needs to get a job.

Unless the kids are newborns, the whole family will
be better off.

I don't know how men endured all of the pressure, in
decades past, of being the sole provider, especially in
tough economic times.

My husband was "under-employed" for over seven years.
He never made more than $10,000/year during those years.

I was SO stressed out that there were WEEKS where I
didn't want to be TOUCHED, let alone "get physical" with
him, partly from resentment of having to carry the whole
load, but mostly from anxiety of having to row
the ship all by myself, keep my kids (and him)healthy and happy, etc.

Now that he's working, the pressure on me has been greatly reduced,
and our marriage is MUCH happier.

I have to say that I was NEVER tempted to have an affair, I was literally
too stressed out to think about that.

[LaurenG]

59. I totally agree with this.

I do think this is step one and it wouldn't hurt to get an atty in case it's too late to save the marriage.

[Rosie1223]

62. I would suggest a marriage counselor before a lawyer.

Especially because they have children. Having a neutral professional to hear both sides of the situation and advise both parties may allow them to work through this difficult time.

Vibes to your friend.

[kaitcat]

63. Maybe he should find a plaything of his own.

I think she gets points for being honest, but OTOH the cruelty of what she did/is doing is unimaginable. He's in a position where he's completely dependent upon her and then she proves that he shouldn't have trusted her with that much power and control in the relationship. I feel sorry for him. He's like any emotionally battered spouse -- giving up on the safety and security of that paycheck is a hard thing to face.

[pipi_k]

67. I can't think of a case where

retaliation ever worked.

When I found out my first husband cheated with my sister, I was devastated, but forgave him. Or I thought I did, anyway.

Not long after, I found a "plaything of my own" and had a short affair.

What happened as a result of that affair was one of the most painful things ever. The birth of a daughter...not my husband's child...who died at the age of 3 months.

Life has a way of punishing those who take it upon themselves to get revenge.

Also...it looks like he gave up power to his wife, and maybe she felt/feels resentful that she has to be the sole financial support for the family. Maybe in her family of origin, the man and woman had more "traditional" roles and she's really angry. He may not have "trusted" her as much as given up.

[kaitcat]

70. Oh wow. I'm so sorry for bringing up that painful memory for you.

Well, it sounded to me like they both consented to the new arrangement, role reversal, whatever you want to call it. My family has power/control issues like you would not believe. My mom did the traditional thing, but my dad was a truck driver, an alcoholic, and a horn dog. I think she believed him twice when he came home with half the money she was expecting and told her he got robbed. That's why my first instinct is for the friend's wife to feel that power go to her head and think she can do whatever she wants because her husband won't feel like he has any option but to take it.

[pipi_k]

72. Oh no...

please don't feel badly!

It was a very long time ago...mid 1970s.

[kaitcat]

95. Thanks for that.

Some things are always there, though, no matter how much time passes. I'm grateful you have found a way to handle such heartbreak.

What I didn't say before and probably should have is the fact that I have been "companioning" with a married man for about 16 years now. I'm not married. I have zero desire to take him for myself or disrupt his "real life" in any way. I'm happy if I see him twice a year or every two weeks. It's always up to him. I don't know his last name, don't know where he lives, works, have his phone number or address. It works for us. The last time I saw him, I think I scared the stuffing out of him with my exploration in my 40s of the crazy things I I want from him. This gives me a somewhat perverted perspective on the OP I think, sets me up to be judged when most of the time I don't have the patience for that.

[GliderGuider]

98. Nothing teaches us like experience.

My hat's off to you for your honesty and courage. Life is way too complicated for simple moral bromides to be worth anything more than the air they are spoken with. Every last one of us is different, and 99.99% of that difference stays locked up inside where only we can see it.

Good luck with your arrangement.

[kaitcat]

99. Thank you.

I really appreciate your rare and generous sentiments when I disclose my situation -- it doesn't happen often.

In my own twisted way, I get to be his second wife, the twisted one that does it every way but missionary. I deal with my guilt in the only way I can, by being careful what I ask and yelling at him when he descends into the bromides in trying to reassure me of my place in his life if it "weren't for my kids, blah, blah, blah." I smack him around liberally and generously when he crosses those boundaries. I laugh at him and make him pay in the most other-womanly of ways imaginable, at least to my favorite online toy store.

[GliderGuider]

110. The Buddhists are right about the need for compassion.

I've learned over the years that everyone I meet is carrying a burden, has a story they keep hidden, or lives outside the social lines in one way or another.

In the last 40 years I've been in all kinds of relationships - an open marriage to a paraplegic, a 20-year traditional marriage, a 7-year common-law marriage, a classic long-term affair, a polyamorous triad, and now finally a fully realized twin-flame union with a woman I first met at the very beginning, back 40 years ago.

It's not the sort of relationship trajectory that our society holds up as the ideal (!) but it's the one I wanted and perhaps needed in order to learn lessons about judgement, autonomy, compassion and the more shadowed sides of human nature. The times I regret were the ones where I wasn't honest, but even those taught me lessons about self-respect, respect for others, and compassion.

We each choose the path we will walk through life, and how we will respond to the curves and knuckleballs, the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. The more consciously we make our choices, the better the outcome will be. You've found that out, as have others on this thread. For many the lessons are still waiting patiently.

[dawg]

64. I wish I could give him a hug, buy him a drink ..... whatever.

I know exactly what I would do in his situation. I would give her an ultimatum. Stop all contact with the other man (except for unavoidable contact at work) and start marriage counseling immediately. Otherwise, I would lawyer up.

No "space" in the marriage would be granted. I would make that abundantly clear.

[OmahaBlueDog]

65. I'm going to give you advice, and it will not be popular

STAY THE HELL OUT OF IT.

In telling your friend to get a lawyer, you've probably done what you thought was right, but if the couple does patch things up, that may bite you in the ass later. The implication is that you think he should blow up the marriage. Suppose he doesn't? Suppose they go to counseling and patch things up (it happens)? Suppose he decides to just ride it out (it happens)? Will there always be an implied lack of respect between you because he didn't take your advice?

He is just devastated and I think she's a jerk.
'No sex' with this 'feelings' guy?
Yeah, right.
Pull the other one.

Really? You know this? You've gathered evidence? Unless you're a private eye, you most likely are speculating. Really, I'm not trying to pick on you - we all look at situations and put 2 and 2 together. You may be right. Hell - you're probably right. Here's the thing - you may be wrong. In any event, your friend needs to sort that out. Lots of couples deal with infidelity; some recover, some don't.

Also, the way you present it, you have only heard one side of the story. Maybe she has a POV that is different than his? Just saying.

She earns big bucks and he lost his job last year (mortgage business).
They decided he would be a stay-at-home dad while she was the 'breadwinner'.
It really made sense, and they both seemed to be OK with that.

There's a whole lot of dynamics that can be in play with that one. Sexual politics. Workplace politics. Financial politics. I wouldn't touch it beyond nodding and listening. If pressed for advice, I'd lay out the choices (counselor/lawyer/ride it out), but would be vague on what I'd do -- because I'm not in his shoes; I don't know what he might have done at other points in the marriage to screw things up; I don't really know what's best for the kids.

I'd be a shoulder to cry on, and I'd be ready to offer a couch to sleep on if things go south. I would only intervene with direct advice in these circumstances: If he's talking suicide, have him seek out a counselor immediately, or better yet, drive him over to one. Also, if he does go the divorce route, and he does not get an attorney (I had a friend do this), tell him at that point he's committing financial suicide. If he's turning to excessive drink or drugs, attend Alanon and see if an intervention can be arranged. Go to the AA meetings with him if you have to.

[pipi_k]

66. Um...

Most sensible answer here, IMO. I think you got it exactly right.


And everything you pointed out is exactly the reason why people should not share stuff like this with friends or family members.

My daughter did that for a while. Always called me and my son to complain about her husband, and, since she's my daughter, I took her side.

She moved out for a bit, then went back to him and then couldn't understand why her brother and I were so down on her husband. Well, it's because we weren't emotionally invested in him. PLUS we were hearing the worst, which I realize was one-sided, but still, when it's your kid...

Now she's back to breaking up with him again, and I've given up being the unpaid therapist. Saves me from a lot of headaches, too.

People should be there to provide emotional support, but beyond that...

MYOB.

[nolabear]

84. I agree. You were more bold than I but yes.

[OmahaBlueDog]

101. Well, that seems to make four of us versus the thread

(maybe five of us)

[GliderGuider]

97. I'll give you a "yes, but..."

MYOB is good advice, but so is supporting friends who are in crisis. I've been in both his shoes and hers over the years, and neither of them is thinking clearly. He needs dispassionate, objective support. Legal counsel should provide some of that. He's vulnerable - no job and looking after the kids. He's the friend, he's asking for help. He deserves compassion and help. There is no obligation to be impartial in this situation. Yes, the advice to see a lawyer may come back and bite, but so does being craven and holding back.

We regret the things we don't do a lot more than the things we do, so my vote is to help.

[OmahaBlueDog]

100. Ayayayayay.......

MYOB is good advice, but so is supporting friends who are in crisis.

Yes, but MYOB is better advice than meddling in a troubled marriage

He needs dispassionate, objective support. Legal counsel should provide some of that.

He needs to figure out whether he wants to save his marriage. Only he and his wife can make that decision. You say he needs an attorney. Maybe he needs a marriage counselor.

We regret the things we don't do a lot more than the things we do, so my vote is to help.

I do regret the things I didn't do, but I also regret having taken bad advice over the years. Your advising this guy to see an attorney; is the attorney going to give objective support? No, the attorney is going to steer this thing towards litigation because that's their paradigm. This guy's a married, grown man with kids. Let him figure out for himself whether he wants a divorce.

I've been in both his shoes and hers over the years, and neither of them is thinking clearly.

If you're saying neither one knows what they want, I'll buy that. However, those outside the relationship shouldn't be the ones to tell them what they want.

[GliderGuider]

102. I'll expand it out a bit

The fellow probably needs all of the following in no particular order:

1. A personal psychologist to help him cope with his feelings, get a handle on the inner turmoil and possibly avoid some of the traps we fall into when we try to make life decisions when we're in upheaval;

2. A marriage counselor to try and figure out what happened to the relationship. If she won't go, he should go alone, to try and clarify his own role in how things unfolded this way with an eye to preventing problems in the future;

3. A lawyer who will advise him on what his rights and exposures are. They don't all steer clients toward litigation in my experience, and the client can always turn down that option if it's proposed and he doesn't want to go that route.

4. A close, discreet, non-judgmental friend who will provide emotional support but refrain from playing the blame game. He needs a friend to keep a lookout for self-destructive behaviour, suggest that he might benefit from professional input, make sure the basics of his life don't fall apart, and generally provide tea and sympathy.

People inside the relationship are the only ones who know what's going on, so they have the absolute right to make their own decisions without outside pressure. However, giving support isn't the same as being directive. Everybody involved should be clear that their role is to help him/them figure out what they want to do, not tell them what to do.

[geardaddy]

68. He should get a lawyer

and a therapist.

[HopeHoops]

74. I think your wife needs to sit down with her friend and knock some fucking sense in her head.

It is COMPLETELY normal to be attracted to someone outside of your marriage, and even fantasize about them, but once you cross that boundary into the sexual realm you have altered everything in an irreparable way. You can still possibly reconcile things, but never repair them.

She needs to think about her kids and her husband instead of herself.

[Carolina]

77. Very sad all around

I really feel for this guy.

The story is classic, happens every day and NOT necessarily because of problems in the marriage: it's the work flirtation.

Picture it: a person gets up, gets dressed in the nice business attire, puts on the good front/behavior and heads off to work refreshed (at least more so than at the end of the day). At work, there are others who may appear similarly at their best, or at least their better selves.

Then that same person comes home tired, changes into comfort clothes, may want some down time alone when s/he doesn't have to be "on"...

Now, throw in this mix of facts that fuel the infidelity fire:
1. like it or not, women still expect the man to work, and a man with a good job is very "attractive" even when he is physically otherwise

2. there many nubile, young women in the work place, some of whom may actively pursue the security of the employed, older man; meanwhile, the older man may be flattered by the attention

3. there is no longer any stigma surrounding extramarital affairs (unlike my youth and young adulthood), and commitment is a thing of the past. Not that I'm saying people should stay in a marriage rife with abuse (be it substance, physical, verbal, emotional) but the "I'm not happy therefore I'm searching, trying to work on my feelings" excuse is CRAP.

Marriage is a choice made out of love and commitment. Yet, nowadays, too many people make the choice to walk away simply because the grass looks greener elsewhere. This man finds himself in the vulnerable position of many woman -- "unemployed" though working full time as homemaker and child care provider. His wife's work 'flirtation' is not only emotionally demoralizing and overwhelming, but it also threatens absolutely everything about his life. That is devastation as much as a flood or fire. So, he's not a doormat to flounder, and rashly running to lawyers opens a costly can of worms, starting with a hefty retainer followed by billable hours that benefit the lawyers no matter the outcome!

I always hope for the restoration of the family when there is no abuse (as itemized above). Wish I had better advice about this very sad, and sadly common, situation. Be there for him. At such times friends can be truly life saving.

[plcdude]

81. I think

Pipi k offers the best response go with her.

[irisblue]

85. does he want the marriage to continue?

1...cut any xanax in half first, it causes problems over the long haul.
2...joint AND single counseling, why is she looking around, why is letting himself be a doormat, why is this marriage not working for both of them, what has happened to their sex life together? what has happened in their emotional life together? is there unexpressed anger that is throttling their communication?

[irisblue]

86. does he want the marriage to end?

1. cut the xanax in half, it still doesn't help
2. forensic accountant, top flight lawyer, rely on their dispassionate advice about finances.
3. the kids...how many, ages, genders? does HE want to be a near daily/daily part of their life? is it possible that he and his wife can stay in the same neighborhood so the kids have the same schools/friends. no matter what, and i speak as an adult whos' parents divorced and my father didn't pay support....MAKE SURE YOU PAY ANY SUPPORT. what ever you may feel about how the woman and how she may/may not have behaved, don't mess with that. your kids are your kids,
4. he needs to be classy and cool when which ever parent moves out. don't trash their mother, don't trash her family, don't fight over plates...make the next stage of the new life about your kids and better days for all.

[trof]

88. He'd still like to make it work.

And I really don't know why.

[trof]

91. The daughters are 5 and 2. He has legal advice.

One of the close friends in their circle is an attorney.
1. DON'T move out.
Abandonment.
2. Stay with his daughters.
3. If she needs 'space', SHE should move out.
In fact, he should insist that she do so.

If this goes to the mat, he should get child support AND alimony.
What a turnabout from what's usually the 'rule'.

[OriginalGeek]

124. My son got full custody and gets child support..

his ex just decided she didn't want to be a mom any more. He didn't even have a lawyer - she did - but he showed up at court and explained his side and she didn't fight too hard because she knew she was in the wrong and the judge agreed with everything my son asked for and even WANTED to award more in child support but my son had a good job and wasn't interested in punishing her.

[irisblue]

87. this is all from all my painfully and expensively acquired knowledge

your real life experience will totally vary. in deep sympathy iris

[trof]

90. Update. (I had no idea this would attract so many replies. Guess I hit a nerve?)

Seems like a lot of us have been through something like this.

OK...I've known this guy since he was in high school with my daughter.
He was in her wedding.
We're pretty close.
We don't 'shake', we hug.


He has the most amazing 'connection'?...whatever..with kids.
I admire him for that, if nothing else.
My grandchildren ADORE him.
When they hear he's coming over they are MANIC!.
His daughters think he hung the moon.

I think he's missed his calling.
He should be a teacher or a coach.
(He's kind of a jock.)

He was totally blindsided by this thing.

Many have said that we're only hearing one side of this.
That's true.
But knowing this guy for as long and as well as I do, I just can't imagine that he'd have done anything to precipitate this whole thing.

[seabeyond]

94. btw...

i think it is bullshit people denigrating him being at home with the kids, and so very very young. and as you said, an awesome connection. no greater gift to the children or the family as a whole. i think it is awesome when men make this choice and i see and hear more of it. i respect these men, as much as i do the mother that puts the time and care into the kids, and i dont think the man should receive any less than a mother.

i read a couple posts above that bothered me and wanted to be clear on that.

i know men that are more nurturing than women. i think it is awesome when it works out in a family that a woman is able to go to work and provide when the man has that ability and desire to give little ones what they need, .... i have a brother that was the caretaker. and his wife that would have been much better off going to work every day. if they had been able to create that environment, they probably could have avoided a lot fo the issues they did. and their kids not experience what they did.

[Major Nikon]

103. It's very hard to say looking at it from the outside

I've known some couples where I thought both of them were nice well adjusted people and they wound up getting divorced. You just don't know what's going on behind the scenes. As a friend, the best thing you can do is not judge either of them and just be supportive as he's probably going half nuts by now. If you're too quick to condemn her, you might find yourself in a difficult position if they do wind up staying together.

I will say that the chances that she hasn't already sealed the deal with this other guy are pretty slim. More than likely she's just claiming she hasn't in order to prevent him further pain or to prevent an unfavorable divorce settlement. She really has no motivation to be truthful about it if she has already done it.

[GliderGuider]

96. Nobody can know what's in someone else's heart, so I won't dump on either of them. But

For the sake of his kids, his future and his own self-respect he needs to get competent legal advice NOW. He won't be seeing anything clearly at this point, and he needs someone competent and objective in his corner.

If she's saying stuff like that, she's already gone. No way will I trash her for it, though, and it's also probably nothing he did. The human heart is a complicated and unpredictable organ, and all the finger-wagging and tongue-clucking in the world don't help when it changes like this. All he can do now is protect himself from further harm.

[no_hypocrisy]

104. Let me tell you about my friend.

Young guy, under 30. Married his high school girlfriend after years apart. (She broke up with him junior year, slept around, got pregnant with another guy, had the baby). They bought a house together before the marriage and he was raising another man's child as his own. She'd leave my friend at home on Friday nights and go out "with the girls", leaving him to babysit.

Three years into the marriage, out of the blue she told him to move out. Was offended by his drinking problem. Never mind that she had liquor all over the house herself and still went out "with the girls" every Friday night (and I don't mean 4 a.m. at a Jersey diner with gravy fries).

He tried to win her back, to be allowed back into his house. He went religiously to Alcoholics' Anonymous. He gave up drinking and prescription drugs. Read the Bible. Gave up smoking cigarettes. Clean and sober.

Not enough. Despite the fact that she barred him from coming on the property, he went back for some stuff in his drawer about a year after he was kicked out of the house. In his underwear drawer were a dozen condoms. Not his . . . . His wife still maintained she wanted time apart and to think things over. All the while this guy was surrendering 100% of his pay to her to allow mortgage payments. She kept him paying by telling him that if he stopped, she'd file for divorce.

When he found out that she was banging her boss, he stopped the mortgage payments and she filed for divorce. While it was extremely painful for him as he still loved her (and felt like a failure because she told him he was), it allowed him to move on.

My point: When you're told "I need space. There's nobody else in my life," then call a friendly lawyer and get some options. And prepare yourself for the worse.

[Ikonoklast]

106. LAWYER UP IMMEDIATELY. TODAY.

Ask me how I know that is the only correct advice, go ahead, ask me.


Tell him to put his emotions in a jar, and see his soon-to-be ex-wife as his legal adversary.

I'd be willing to bet that she has already retained counsel; women even moreso than men plan their divorce out beforehand.

[supernova]

107. grrrrr

You tell her to put on her hush puppies and move in with him. Let him support her and then do the best you can for your kids.

[applegrove]

114. I would start seeing a counsellor with the wife. They have kids and she owes them that much.

[Lil Missy]

115. Tell him to avoid getting any advice from strangers on a message board. n/t

[Orrex]

117. Shoot the hostage. Take him out of the equation.

Go for the good wound and she can’t get to the plane with him. Clear shot.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

123. ^^^^^^^^thread winner^^^^^^^

trof, should lock the thread

[grasswire]

119. lawyer up now, and protect the assets for the childrens' sake

She could arguably (because she has income) totally clean this friend out and impoverish him and cut him off from his children if he doesn't get some legal advice NOW.

She could be planning and already be getting legal advice while your friend is still reeling.

Tell him to see a lawyer on Monday, just for protection. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

[BiggJawn]

120. Get a lawyer.

The only reason she's telling him this much is that she's got "feelings" for this guy all the way to her cervix and thinks it'll soften the blow when she throws him out and moves "Mr. Feelings" in..

Voice of Experience.

[mackattack]

126. What she means is....

"Im sleeping with this guy at work and want to be with him and not you. Unfortunately we have the house and the kids so divorce is gonna be more of a financial and emotional mess than I want to deal with. Plus the whole process can take a year so that will be annoying. Basically Im telling you that i am having an affair so that I can go out on dates with him while you stay home, and I wont have to come up with an excuse each night about why my shirt is on inside-out.

During this time, me and my fling will be getting a lawyer and planning how to get rid of you....of course we will make you look like a lazy welfare sponge so that we get everything. Then we will sell your house and your car and take the kids. You can move back with your parents while I fuck this guy and take the kids on vacations with your money. But....to set this up, i just need some space first."

[Happyhippychick]

127. I'm a marriage counselor and I read all of the replies

I think there is no such thing as wrong or right in terms of advice, each situation is unique and none of us really knows what goes on in someone else's marriage no matter how well we know someone.

Infidelity is a symptom of a marriage in trouble. Unfortunately since it is such a huge boundary crosser, the attention goes to the infidelity instead of the problems that exist in the marriage beside that one. Therefore much time is spent on that issue and it is hard to get to the bigger, more significant issues of what has gone wrong in the relationship. The trouble is due to failures on the part of both parties, if your friend was completely blindsided then I assume he was not paying attention or purposely ignoring things his wife was telling him. This does not mean that I sanction infidelity, it just means that I know it is a more complicated issue then "this is all your fault because you cheated."

Successful marriages are very difficult to obtain, we all carry a set of expectations about how the world should be and we don't even realize it. When those expectations aren't met, the feelings of disappointment are deep and we don't even know why.

I suggest he go to counseling regardless of whether she will accompany him. He needs to figure out what he wants his life to look like without relying on her to make it so. I have saved many marriages and I have been unable to save many marriages, at the end of the day the two people involved both have to be committed to changes that will make the marriage work. If they simply expect the other one to do it then it won't happen.

[pitohui]

128. get a lawyer to screw the one who's working? i don't get it

she earns big bucks and he's fucking around while she's working so you tell him that she had some "feelings' and she's the one who should pay for everything?

ok, i don't get it but I will admit that women who have kids w. men who sit on their ass not working and dreaming up ways to screw them have major problems w./ self esteem

let's see, have the babies, carry them for 9 months apiece in your body AND have the big job that earns all the money AND just do everything AND let mentally ill man then come back and wine and moan and take money for nothing and set yr kids the example of a man who doesn't work sitting on his ass? i'm sorry, trof, i'm usually on your side but this just ain't happening

by siding with the no hoper you are voting to put the kids in a household where they are brought up where the man has no chance except to rip off others, society doesn't benefit from pushing that, the kids will have miserable life forever if that's their dream

put aside your sensitive feelings and focus on ACTIONS instead of wooo-wooo feelings because at the end of the day it's what you DO that counts not what you feel, sheesh, do you really need a woman to tell you what every man over age 11 once knew by instinct?

it ain't the thoughts and feelings that count, it's the ACTION that counts

if she actually cheated on him m-kay, if she feels cheated by this man who ain't a man but she's just trying to goose him, that's another story, and the dude should get off his duff and get a fucking job

[ScreamingMeemie]

129. "he's fucking around while she's working"

Excuse me but, as one who chose to stay home with the kids while my husband went to work, being a stay at home parent is not "fucking around".

I got up every single day with my husband (actually was his alarm clock), made his lunch and his coffee. I then woke up our children and got them ready to go to school. Then it was laundry, vacuuming, shopping, cooking, folding said laundry, getting kids from the bus, homework etc...

Yeah, that doesn't sound much like "fucking around" to me either.

You cannot judge this man as "fucking around" just for being the parent who stays home. Stay at home parents typically have an unending job. Thank you for considering that.

[dawg]

130. That's not fair.

You can't say that somone "ain't a man" because they don't earn a paycheck.

My situation was nearly the opposite of this one. I worked while my wife stayed home with the kids. One of our children had special needs, and my wife could never have made enough money to justify going back to work. I had the highest earning potential, so it just made sense for me to work and for her to stay home.

I would never have said that she wasn't a real woman because she couldn't help me pay the bills. She worked just as hard as me, and sometimes harder.

I will agree with you, that if all this woman has had are "feelings" then the two of them should do whatever it takes to work this out. But, like trof, I'm pretty skeptical of her story.