I still can't fathom why Don Draper fired Lane Pryce.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

As much leeway has been shown Don could he not find something charitable to show Lane? Lane's suicide is all on Don. How fitting is it that Don ends up in Lane's office where he committed suicide!! Live with THAT, Don Draper. Live with that!!

And that tooth scene ... that is dental record proof that Don is Dick Whitman. Will that come back to haunt him?

And that scene where Don fantasizes(?) about killing that woman and, then shoving her body under his bed.
Wow. Was that metaphorical or what?

and ... I still miss Sal. After all these years. I still miss Sal. I wish they would bring back that character.

[hlthe2b]

1. I am a little taken aback by so many that seem to idolize the Draper character... That shocks even

the actor who plays him, Jon Hamm, who finds the character to be pretty horrible. His handling of Lane, but one very cold cold example.

Still, I'd like to be a believer in (a 'secular' concept of) redemption.... so I'm sort of hoping he ends up with some constructive metamorphosis at the end.

And, yes, I was a big Sal fan, as well. You must be watching a MM marathon!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

2. Don Draper is an interesting character and, I want to like him and sometimes

I do like him but, honestly I am smitten/in love/googoogahgah for Roger Sterling.

I know. I know.

He would break my heart but, lordie what a way to go.

and I tell you who just really cracks me up and that is Pete Campbell. His character is so unintentionally FUNNY.

I just loved Bert's send off, didn't you?

sock feet and all ..... I wish I could find a clip of it.

Frank will just have to do

did find this snippet

[hlthe2b]

3. Yeah, Roger's pretty cool... I'm very glad they gave Bert (aka Robert Morse)

such a great send off... He was great.

So many of my favorite shows have already ended or are about to sign off this year (e.g., Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Justified, Newsroom, Sons of Anarchy, Boardwalk Empire, Hell on Wheels, among others) . I'm thinking it may be another good opportunity to break further from tv and focus on other areas of life. No point in getting hooked on shows that aren't really that good, I guess. I'm still hooked on The Good Wife and the Walking Dead and I'll probably try to find a way to watch Game of Thrones, but I'm not even sure what else comes on when anymore.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

4. I only watch stuff on NetFlix or DVDs from the Library or RedBox.

I cut off my satellite and I live at the north foot of a mountain and the only way to get reception is with the biggest antennae made and I just have not got around to buying one and having it installed.

So, yeah I miss a lot. But, it is probably for the best. My TV addiction was pretty bad.

I was out of work sick for a whole week two weeks ago. Could not lift my head sick. Emergency Surgery Sick.

So yeah, I did a MM marathon that week. I deserved it

[hlthe2b]

5. Oh, my! I hope you are well on the path to recovery!

and yeah, I imagine a MM marathon might be quite welcome during that ordeal!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

6. I am, thanks. It has required a Major Lifestyle change. Was advised to find another job,

It has required a Major Lifestyle change. Was advised to find another job,

which I have done. Also, diet and exercise and medication changes. It has been a real ... eye opener as what Old Age is going to be.

I think, I was fooling myself that I wasn't aging. Ha!

[callous taoboy]

12. A lot of Don hate here.

Don is a deeply flawed man, thanks to a really fucked up childhood. Sure, he screws around, is boorish, greedy, self-centered. But, most of the male characters on the show are not saints. Why do Roger and Pete get a pass here while Don gets flayed? Despite his often bad behavior, I can empathize with Don, and sometimes even sympathize.

[hlthe2b]

13. You are quite the conflator it appears. To state Don should not be "idolized" hardly equates to hate

Particularly when the actor who plays him says the same.

[callous taoboy]

16. Oh, I am much more of something that rhymes with conflator.

[callous taoboy]

17. Also, I am not responding to a particular post.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

24. gosh, I don't hate Don at all. I hate a lot of stuff that he does and I am not attracted to him

*in that way* but, there is a lot about Don that I -do- like. And, I always hold out hope for him. I also think he is one of the most interesting characters to ever hit the small screen.

Don reminds me a lot of my Dad and I see a lot of Betty in my Mom.

and I bet that I am not alone in that regard. I bet a lot of people who were children growing up in that era can relate.

[callous taoboy]

26. I wasn't necessarily responding to your post, Tuesday-

There are several posts here that cut Don no slack at all, and I think that's a shame. I think the writers intended for him to give rise to mixed feelings about him, not loathing toward him.

Look at how much Don truly cared for Anna Draper and her daughter. It was Anna's husband who basically gave Don a new life so that he could get away completely from his fucked up past. The whole "California Dick" / New York "Don" is absolutely fascinating. Don's past absolutely sickened him, which is why he could not be brotherly toward his brother when he came seeking help. Dick had to sever all ties to his past in order to be able to be Don. I did not like how callous he ultimately was toward Lane, whom I really enjoyed, but the whole trust thing (at least where money and business are concerned) ties directly to his past, like it or not.

I also see a lot of Don and Betty in my own 1950's - 1960's dad and mom; the drive to excel at work for dad and be too tired and cranky for family, the boredom of my mom's housewife existence, the regular frosty vibe between them all so perfectly captured in MM.

Don Draper is one of the most complex and interesting characters in the history of drama. Betty, too. Again, I don't like Betty that much, but I sure have sympathy for her. Between Don and Betty, I certainly think Don is the better person.

BTW- Hope you are doing much better, Tuesday. I just turned 50 last month and like a switch I have all new aches, pains and worries. :/

[Tuesday Afternoon]

27. yes, Don is a complex character with complicated issues as is Betty. I wish we knew more about

her past and what has caused her to be the way she is now. Wonder what kind of parents/childhood she had. Since, I don't know but, suspect there might also have been some trauma/abuse there, I am inclined to cut her some slack also.

Thank you for the well wishes, taoboy. Much appreciated !!

[callous taoboy]

28. Love how the writers leave Betty's past alone-

You just get clues: A stern, bigoted father (at least in old age), the berating of Sally after she is caught masturbating and later clues that Sally may be ashamed of sexuality, her impetuous demeanor toward her children.... Not a happy childhood would be my guess. Nothing as bizarre and horrific as Don's of course. I tell you, re-watching MM really helped me through a very tough time at work, but it also made me start drinking like a damned fish! This is as near to being a perfect show as I can come up with.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

30. This sentence:

This is as near to being a perfect show as I can come up with.

I am inclined to agree with you on that. I would even venture as far as to say that Matthew Weiner is genius.

[LeftinOH]

7. And don't forget how Don treated his own brother!

..and how Don's treatment of his (half) brother led resulted in the same thing that happened to Lane. Don is as much a grifter as Bob Benson, but worse.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

8. omg ... you are so right !! his own blood and kin. yeah. and the whole thing in Korea

was it really a mixup? what did he do? switch name tags? I mean right from the get go this man ain't right.

[dr.strangelove]

9. Because Don is a disgusting self-centered monster!

I will never understand why people like don and think he will ever do something that is not in his self interest. He is a despicable person. Its one of the things that make the show so good. I love that they have a bad guy as the main character. Sure its interesting to see why he makes terrible decisions and to see him dig himself out of the holes his terrible choices result in, but at heart he is bad, plain and pure bad!

On Lane, there was no question that he must be fired. He stole, period. Until the money was distributed, it was not his. He needed it and the thing to do was to ask the partnership for a loan or to approach one of them individually. He did not benefit like they all did from the purchase of the original Sterling Cooper. He was hard up for cash, while they were not. I understand why he did it, but its theft, and someone who makes that call can not be allowed to continue. Don should not have been allowed back either, but what kind of show would that be.

Sal was a fun character. I liked him too. I do not think anyone cares that Don is Dick anymore. The military thinks Dick is dead and I can't imagine anyone telling them differently. Maybe, but I don't see the Don/Dick issue mattering to anyone. Burt knew, and it died with him.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

10. Bert knew because Pete Campbell told him because Pete opened that box that Don's halfbrother sent

him before he committed suicide but, you could be right in that it is probably a non-issue now.

Thing is, I don't think Don should have fired Lane on his own. I think he should have called a meeting of the partners.

Don is talented and a maverick and yes, he is despicable.

I loved how his daughter Sally finagled her way to spend Valentine's with him. She loves her Daddy in spite of it all and she knows a lot. But then, look what she has for a mother !! Betty is some piece of work her own self. my gawd

[dr.strangelove]

11. Betty is terrible too

I know what you mean. those kids have no chance.

[Bucky]

14. One key to understanding Draper is that he has an upright moral sense...

of what other people should do and be held accountable for. He just doesn't see how that same level of accountability should hold Don himself back when he has his ambitions to achieve.

It's called being an anti-hero in literature. In film it's called a "guilty pleasure."

[Tuesday Afternoon]

15. He is above it all. The rules do not apply to him. Pete Campbell said this about Don

That is a very sensitive piece of horseflesh. He shouldn't be rattled! — Pete

can not be tamed ... a wild animal surviving on instinct.

I understand him and appreciate his talent and he has been a good mentor to Peggy ... but, ugh ... he is good looking but, not my type ...


now ....

Roger Sterling ....

whoo boy!!

[Bucky]

19. People hate it when I say this, but Pete Campbell really is the hero of MadMen

He was first to recognize the growing Negro market, he and Don were the only ones disgusted at Roger's blackface performance at his wedding. He's the one who struggles the most with the issue of marital fidelity (mind you I quit watching at Season Five so I could binge-watch the last three seasons in the summer of 2015... a plan requiring superhuman self discipline and which is slowly approaching fruition...)

[Tuesday Afternoon]

21. actually, I can see it ,,,, Pete struggles and his results are hilarious, unintentionally so maybe.

I bet that guy is having huge fun playing that role. and that Cosgrove character ... don't want to spoil it for you.

Honestly, I bet they are all having a blast on the set.

and see, you named another redeeming quality about Don ... he is not racist and he is against the Nam war. so, you know ... there is hope.

[Orrex]

25. And he was so nice to Peggy in the very first episode

I can't see Pete as the hero, born to ridiculous privilege and apparently determined to destroy as many personal relationships as he can start.

Peggy strikes me as a more heroic character than Pete, who's simply to oily and manipulative to fill that role IMO.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

31. Peggy is the Heroine but, she is the creative end of the business

Pete is management.

and Yes, all you say about Pete is true which makes room for his character to arc, grow and change and I think we are seeing glimpses of that. Subtle, which is due to the brilliance of Matthew Weiner.

besides Pete makes me laugh.

and Cosgrove with the eye patch !!

They shot out his eye !!

omg, those Detroit Dudes take the cake. Hilarious episode.

[Orrex]

32. I love the characters, even though I wouldn't want to meet most of them.

It amuses me that I keep casting about for someone to "like," but they're all pretty awful!

Terrific show. I hate that I'm going to have to wait 300 years until the final season comes on Netflix.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

33. and see ... dude, that is the difference between you and me. I would love to work there

NYC in the sixties ... are you kidding me ?!

sitting around the creative department smoking pot ... and getting paid to do it ?!

I love Joan and Peggy and Megan and Roger Sterling and I loved Sal and Burt and Cosgrove, too.

and that computer ... dude, it made Ginsberg cut off his nipple

[callous taoboy]

29. I really like that spoiled brat. Like him a lot, in fact.

He comes from such huge money that nothing really impresses him. I've known guys like Pete, bored with life, children in adult sized clothes.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

23. thought you might find this interesting ...

[jmowreader]

18. It's in the script so he had to do it

[Bucky]

20. I reject all deterministic philosophies

[Tuesday Afternoon]

22. predestined.

fate.

kismet.

predetermined.

hard wired.

meh. I am with Bucky on this.