What if there had been no "New World?" Anyone know of any fiction, essays, etc., about this?

[raccoon]

Searched some but I can't find even a discussion.

[KamaAina]

1. That would make an awesome Harry Turtledove

He specializes in alternative history (the South won the Civil War, etc.)

And of course there would have been a New World. It would have been populated by its indigenous people.

[Wolf Frankula]

2. I think raccoon meant

nothing but water between Europe and Asia. No North or South America.

Wolf

[raccoon]

3. Yes! Exactly. What if the Europeans in the 1500's hadn't had the New World to plunder for

gold, silver, etc.? What if Europe's huddled masses yearning to breath free had to remain huddled, unable to breathe free?

[Wolf Frankula]

4. A Friend Had an Idea for a Novel

Last edited Fri Mar 20, 2015, 12:17 PM - Edit history (1)

North and South America are there, and there is also the Island nation of Atlantis where the Azores are. This island is inhabited by a people who are a mix of Iberians and Solutreans.. They are as technically advanced as Europe, the speak a language akin to Basque, they have very complicated family structures and are governed by a parliamentary Monarchy. Think the medieval kingdom of Navarra but much larger and more powerful.

Because they are where they are, the Spanish and Portuguese never colonized the New World. Europeans have colonies (and in this novel's present) states in North America. They are Vinland and Northshieldland, colonized by Norse, Saxeland, inhabited by the descendents of Anglo-Saxons who fled the Normans, and ruled by a descendant of the House of Godwin, Celteach Mhor, colonized by Irish and Scottish Gaels, and a gaggle of German States, collectively known as Die Westlande.

Western North America is colonized from the end of Baja California to the Columbia (our names) by the Chinese, and from the Columbia to the Aleutians by the Japanese. Most of the Midwest and South, and Canada west of Lake Winnipeg are small to large First Nations countries.

Texas and Mexico are Tenochcotlan, think Aztecs, Yukatan and Central America are Mayax, a Mayan confederacy, There is A Chibcha/Bochica nation in northern South America, strongly allied with Atlantis, (which has colonies in the Eastern Caribbean), and Tahuantinsuyu, The Inka realm that takes up the Andes and much of Argentina. The rest of South America is a galaxy of small countries

Some religious changes. The Atlanteans are NOT Christians, and regard Christianity and Islam with disgust. The Irish of Ireland are Protestants, the English are Catholics, The Aztecs and Mayans have a reformed religion without human sacrifice, the Inkas are Arian Christians.

The transatlantic slave trade never happened. No plantation agriculture in the Caribbean or American South.

Jack has been frittering with this for years.

Wolf

[cemaphonic]

5. There used to be a great usenet forum for historical counterfactuals like this.

Don't know about modern equivalents though. There would definitely be huge consequences for Spain. 1492 was not only the year that Columbus encountered the Americas, it was also the year that marked the defeat of the final Andalusian Moorish state of Grenada. Spanish society (especially the nobility, but not limited to them) had become oriented around the idea that you proved your worth and made your mark in the world through military conquest. Without the New World as an outlet for this, I would guess that Spain would have attempted to conquer more of North Africa than the handful of coastal cities that it did IRL. And while they would miss out on the power and prestige that American mineral wealth was able to pay for, they also miss out on economic turmoil that their dependence on gold and silver caused. Africa overall would probably be in better shape without the transatlantic slave trade, and the internal wars to fuel it.

Portugal, Holland and England would probably still set up an Africa->Indian Ocean->Far East trade network, but without the New World gold and silver to pay for Asian trade goods (silk, spices, chinaware, etc), Europe stays a good deal poorer, and probably doesn't innovate the kinds of financial institutions that led to it being able to be first to industrialize and dominate the 19th-20th century. One or more of the Indian states is probably in the best position to become the first mercantile/capitalist/industrial economy.

Big changes for food. Imagine Indian or Thai food without chilies. No chocolate.

Neat thread, thanks.

[WinkyDink]

6. Meaning, written history and stories prior to 1492? I think some exist!