Recommendations for a new small, four door car?

[Xithras]

My wife is ready to trade in her current minivan in for something smaller, and I'm looking for recommendations. Not "information you can find on the Internet", but opinions from people who actually own or drive them. Her requirements:

Four door, with a hatchback.
Must have excellent rear seat leg room. She regularly has tall adults sit in the back of her current car.
Excellent gas mileage. 35mpg city bare minimum.
She wants it to bleed technology. Remote start, cameras everywhere, self parking. If it's an option...she wants it.
It has to ride smoothly. Lots of small cars ride like skateboards. She doesn't want that.


What she's tested so far:
2015 Ford Focus ST hatch: Decent car overall, but city mileage is pretty awful, the technology is dated (RCA jacks for video input to the screen...is this 1985?!?!), and the rear seat legroom left a bit to be desired.

2015 Honda Fit: Camera and interior technology was great and rear legroom was almost as impressive as the mileage, but you felt every crack in the road. No four wheel disk brakes.

2015 Nissan Versa: Probably the coolest use of car cameras that I've ever seen, but somewhat limited on technology options otherwise. Great legroom in the rear, and excellent gas mileage. Has a very cheap feel to it that makes me wary though.

2015 Nissan Leaf: She loved the car, but the range limitations kill it for her. She frequently goes on winery tours with a group of her friends, and the range limitations makes it a non-starter. That's a shame, because she liked everything about it otherwise.

2015 Toyota Prius: She only looked at this thing because I practically forced her to. I don't know why, but she hates Priuses. Think's they're ugly as hell. I thought that she might change her opinion if she actually drove one. She didn't.

Any comments on any of these, or suggestions for other cars she should look at?

[PennyK]

1. On the Focus

I have a 2013 and I love it. I can't speak to the rear legroom, but it's a very good car, and we can carry tons of stuff in the hatchback. I normally drive with the back seat down (I'm short and need a clear back view), and it's scarey how much we can carry (like enough wood laminate for two big rooms).

[Xithras]

4. I really like the look of the 2015 Focus

And we could even deal with the legroom, but 26MPG city is pretty awful for a small car by todays standards. She gets around 17MPG with her current Dodge Caravan and one of her firm goals is to double her gas mileage. That puts us at 34MPG minimum. She's also a bit of a geek and was disappointed that she couldn't connect her phone to it at all, except to Bluetooth for hands free calling and audio. The Fit had an HDMI input port that allowed her to use the console screen as a remote screen for her phone, and the Versa had a Bluetooth app based system that allowed approved apps to connect back and forth between the systems. The Ford, on the other hand, had an ancient RCA jack in the center console that doesn't even work when the car is in gear. If you want to use Waze instead of Fords navigation, or if you want to use a music app other than Pandora, you're pretty much out of luck unless you actually pick your phone up and use it while you're driving. It's a very limited system that used a dated, locked down model.

[bobclark86]

41. Is she looking for a car or a theater?

"The Fit had an HDMI input port that allowed her to use the console screen as a remote screen for her phone, and the Versa had a Bluetooth app based system that allowed approved apps to connect back and forth between the systems. The Ford, on the other hand, had an ancient RCA jack in the center console that doesn't even work when the car is in gear."

On the Ford, that's a good thing. Why? Because it means she'll be driving instead of screwing around on her phone. Distracted driving kills.

[Xithras]

42. Or....

...it means that, when she needs to check her navigation, she'll be picking up her phone to look at Waze instead of simply glancing over at the convenient and safer 8 inch screen that Ford helpfully built into the dashboard. The point of in dash screens is to get people OFF of their phones and to provide a safer way to access utilities that they might actually NEED when driving. Ford handcuffs its owners by preventing them from using any apps but theirs, and wraps the whole thing into what is generally regarded as the worst (and most distracting/dangerous) in car computer system available today. As Consumer Reports said in their review of the MyTouch system, “We wouldn’t recommend dealing with the frustrations of MyFord Touch on a daily basis even to an adversary.” As a reviewing outfit that has always been very reserved and fact-based in its criticisms of products it reviews, that was a scathing blow. JD Power actually downgraded ALL of Fords cars because of constant problems with MyTouch. The system really is that bad.

Honda and other carmakers have been dodging this issue by providing HDMI connectivity so that you can simply project your phones screen onto the cars screen. That way, instead of the car having to support every app in the world, or figure out how to match the interface expectations that Apple and Google have already establishe, it simply gets out of the way and lets your phone do the work. It's a much better (and much safer) way to do things.

As it turns out though, some enterprising owners have already figured out a way around this problem that will allow HDMI connectivity to the center screen in the Ford. It requires buying about $400 in parts, disassembling half the dash to install/rewire everything, and voiding a good chunk of your warranty, but it does work...with SD picture quality. That's a big bunch of downsides when its competitors just let you plug in/sync your Bluetooth and go.

[F4lconF16]

2. I've heard very good things about the Fit and my parents just bought one.

It's a really good car if you need to be able to haul stuff. The interior space is...impressive, and the seating arrangement and other things make it a very versatile car.

Interior room is, as you said, excellent. I'm over 6 foot and fit with no issues, and actually a lot better than in most larger cars, thanks to the higher ceiling. Seat comfort is good enough. Haven't had a chance to play with the AC/heater or other comfort stuff, so I can't really comment there. Stereo is about what you'd expect from a small car.

It is a bit uncomfortable at times, and road noise is definitely an issue on the highway. Part of that is the lack of sound-insulation, part of it is the thin tires, and part of it the fact that the engine needs to be revving far too high to maintain 70 mph. The high-end gearing is all wrong in my opinion.

Performance is bland. It struggles getting on to the highway at higher speed, and is resistant to quick changes in speed. I would be a little nervous if I had a heavy load in the back or a full car of passengers. Gearshifts from the automatic are manageable, but I much prefer the paddle-shifters, even if they are slow. I'd probably go with the manual, myself. You can also have a turbocharger installed (Hondas have lots of parts available) and that would make up for a lot of the lack of power. It would also help the engine quiet down at higher speeds as it won't have to work as hard.

I haven't had a chance to really play with the car in depth, so take all this with a grain of salt. That said, I would definitely recommend if for someone looking for a very practical and inexpensive car. It won't have the refinements and "luxury" items that slightly more expensive options, but it will get the job done, and will probably do so reliably for a long period of time. They're well put together.

[Xithras]

6. Yeah, I didn't mention the noise in the Fit.

I definitely noticed it though. There's a bunch of road construction near the Honda dealer, and she drove through it on the test drive. It's definitely a very noisy car. And a bumpy one. The transitions between the newly paved parts of the road and the older parts were really jarring.

[PasadenaTrudy]

3. Mazda 3 hatchback

But I'm a Mazda fan girl.

[Xithras]

8. Thanks for the suggestion!

I used to own a 626 and it was a great car. Hadn't even thought to look at their offerings.

[Coventina]

23. This is what I was going to suggest.

If my car suddenly died, that's what I would get.

[sharp_stick]

5. The VW Jetta TDI

has about 38 inches of legroom in the back. My coworker is 6'2" and he sat back there for more than two hours without complaining.

No hatchback though, but the trunk is huge.

It's a diesel and I get about 32 MPG combined, much better if I spend a lot of time on the highway.

Really nice ride, goes like snot when you hit the gas. The nav system is really good, hasn't got me lost yet. I don't have the Driver assistance and lighting package but it's available on the SEL version for about $1600...

"You can’t predict the road ahead. But, the high-intensity Bi-Xenon headlights with LED Daytime Running Lights (DRL) and the Adaptive Front-lighting System (AFS) can help you see what’s coming. And, with the Forward Collision Warning and Blind Spot Monitor with Rear Traffic Alert you can be more prepared."

For a small car it doesn't come cheap though, with the assistance package and automatic it'll run about $30,000.

[Xithras]

19. She can't compromise on the hatchback thing.

More specifically, she needs to be able to fold the seats down and fit her bicycle inside. Even small hatchbacks have room for one bike. Sedans don't.

[roody]

24. I love my VW Golf. I've never sat in the back.

TDI gets almost 50 mpg diesel.

[elleng]

25. My Golf/Rabbit had GREAT back seat room,

the BEST! (AND great trunk room.)

[F4lconF16]

7. You also might check out a Mazda 3 hatchback, if you don't mind lack of rear seat room.

I couldn't do it, as I don't fit at all.

Other options:

The Volkswagen Golf GTI has been getting rave reviews recently, and the one I've been in measured up pretty well. Worth a look, and performance is excellent. Not that small of a car, though.

I've heard good and bad things about Mini Coopers, so that might be something to look into.

[Xithras]

9. Oh, we DID look at a Mini Cooper.

She thought it was neat, but she's not into classics at all, and the Cooper is definitely a nod to classic cars. The technology was lacking, and she had some problems getting out of the back seat...it's a bit tight on space. In the end, she didn't even take it for a drive.

I'll have her take a look at the Golf. Do you know if Volkswagen's reliability has improved at all though? They started cheapifying the Jetta's a few years ago and most of the VW owners I knew were pretty unhappy with them. Lots of breakdowns and repairs. Haven't heard anything about them in a few years though.

[PasadenaTrudy]

17. Careful with VW

Personally, I wouldn't chance it due to reliability issues. Same with Mini. Stick with the Japanese cars, IMO. Sucks because I loved the old 60s and 70s bugs.

[alarimer]

10. Mazda 3

It comes in hatchback. In mine (2010) there is plenty of room in the back (more than in my mom's Mercedes 230, as a matter of fact). Of course, it's been redesigned, so I have no idea what the new ones are like.

[PasadenaTrudy]

18. I have a 2011 hatch

With the 2.5 engine. I love this car so much! Roomy and fun to drive.

[onehandle]

11. Buy American. nt

[Xithras]

15. We'd prefer to.

If we can find one that fits our requirements. That's why the Ford was the first car we looked at.

[PumpkinAle]

27. You may be surprised...............

What Are the Top American-Made Cars?
Cars.com's American-Made Index rates vehicles built and bought in the U.S. Factors include the percentage of parts considered domestic under federal regulations, whether the car is assembled in the U.S. and U.S. sales. We disqualify models with a domestic-parts content rating below 75 percent, models built exclusively outside the U.S. or models soon to be discontinued without a U.S.-built successor.
Rank Make/Model U.S. Assembly Location
1. Ford F-150 Dearborn, Mich.; Claycomo, Mo.
2. Toyota Camry Georgetown, Ky.; Lafayette, Ind.
3. Honda Odyssey Lincoln, Ala.
4. Toyota Sienna Princeton, Ind.
5. Toyota Tundra San Antonio, Texas
6. Toyota Avalon Georgetown, Ky.
7. Chevrolet CorvetteStingray Bowling Green, Ky.
8. Honda Ridgeline Lincoln, Ala.
9. Honda Crosstour East Liberty, Ohio
10. Dodge SRT Viper Detroit

[LongTomH]

48. Which are made by unionized workers?

I believe the Honda and Toyota factories in the American South are non-union not paying the same wages and benefits as Detroit.

[Paulie]

12. Did she try a Prius V?

It's the longer wheel base one more squarish.

The Venza may be too big but I love the look.

My 05 Prius is going on 200k so I've been looking around too.

[Xithras]

13. Funny you should ask that.

The salesperson at the Toyota dealership said the same thing. He also thought that she might be interested in driving the Prius C, but I've heard bad things about the rear legroom in that car. Unfortunately, the dealership had completely sold out of both models the prior weekend (some big Presidents Day sale) and they didn't have 2015's in either model on the lot. They only had the standard Prius on the lot. I didn't realize until after we'd left that we also didn't see the Yaris while we were there. We never walked past one, and the salesperson never mentioned it.

[mackerel]

38. I heart my Prius but I'm not sure about the back leg room. We all fit in it fine but my kids are

short and so am I.

[TreasonousBastard]

14. I have a 2013 Chevy Cruz Eco...

which averages 30-33 mpg mostly city. The dash gauge has said up to 43mpg highway, but I haven't done a long enough highway ride to know for sure.

The clutch just blew at 44,000 miles, but everything else has been just fine. A few small warranty things, but until the clutch I just had a few oil changes and the 35K service. All small change. Besides blowing the clutch, the manual transmission just doesn't seem like such a good idea. The shift ratios are a bit weird, turbine lag screws you up, and you are constantly shifting because it's a really small engine. But, I have a loaner with an auto, and it seems just fine.

The back seat? It seems small, but you have to sit in it to see if it will work for you. The trunk is enormous for a small car.

[Xithras]

16. No U.S. hatchback until 2016

The Europeans get the Cruz in a hatchback model, but we Americans get stuck with the sedan until 2016. The hatchback isn't a negotiable item, and she's not waiting another year to buy a car. It sucks that GM has been dragging their feet on bringing the 5 door model to the U.S. market, because all of the Cruz owners I know swear by them.

[Mopar151]

20. The Mazda is usually worth a look, in any survey of comparable models.

And we had a little Huyndai rental last summer, that was impressive for sheer heart - keeping up with 90 mph traffic on the "Banzai Pipeline" north of Boston, the satellite radio was nice, I liked the backup camera - and I'm kind of a Luddite when it comes to the techie stuff. The comparable Toyota we rented a week before was'nt as nice, for whatever reason. A couple friends have Sonatas, are quite enthusiastic about them.

[panader0]

21. I can give you a good deal on a 94(?) Taurus with not that many problems.

I mean, the upholstery is still pretty good. $800. It runs.

[oregonjen]

22. Toyota Venza with a V6 engine

If you are trading in a minivan, Venzas sit a little higher up, which is nice, have lots of space and a smooth engine.

The mileage does not fit your requirements, but it's worth a test drive.

[Xithras]

34. I have no intention of trading the minivan in. We're going to destroy it.

My wife really, really hates the minivan and wants to crush it. Not "send it to a junkyard to be crushed"...she wants to crush it herself. So, after calling around a bit, I found a local junkyard that will let her do it. The guy laughed so hard when I explained what we wanted that I thought he was going to hang up on me, but he ended up agreeing to it simply because nobody had ever asked him for that sort of thing before.

So, by this time next month, she'll get to drive the car to the junkyard, wait an hour while they drain the fluids, watch while they drop it into the crusher, and push the button to turn it into a flat pancake of twisted metal.

She's THRILLED

As for the Venza...thanks for the suggestion, but she doesn't want an SUV. She owned a Durango before getting the minivan and doesn't want another SUV. Owning something small and efficient is fairly important to her at this point.

[OriginalGeek]

45. I don't know what it is

but there's something about that whole plan that just makes me happy. Your wife being thrilled to press the button to crush the car.
Made my day! I hope you take before and after pictures.

And I hate my wife's minivan so much I may have to start looking for a junk yard here that will let us do the same thing. It never occurred to me it was even possible.

[Xithras]

49. Three junkyards refused before the fourth agreed to it.

Financially, it's not much of a hit for us. It's an 11 year old Dodge Caravan with 175k miles, a failing transmission, a leaking head gasket, and a big dent in the rear quarter panel where some idiot hit her in a parking lot three weeks ago and drove off without even leaving a note. Dealerships wont touch this thing as a trade-in, and the private party sale value is only a few hundred dollars because of the needed repairs. The junkyards offered me between $400 and $450 for it, which means it's salvage value is actually higher than it's Craigslist value at this point.

The first three junkyards I talked to thought the idea was funny, but couldn't agree to it because of insurance and certification requirements. The fourth guy agreed, since she's only pushing a button and not actually running the machine, and because I'll be paying him a small amount of money (to cover the state tire disposal fee and some of the cleanup and draining costs).

And I DO plan on taking LOTS of photos. She was joking around when she originally said that she wanted to crush it, but I know how much she hates this car and thought she'd get a kick out of actually getting to do it. You should have seen the smile on her face when I told her that I'd found a way to pull it off!

[OriginalGeek]

50. HA! OMG!

I almost asked you if it was a chrysler/dodge minivan.

Ours is a 2003. Never has any car I've ever owned inspired so much hate in me. It will be cathartic to get rid of it.

I understand your wife's joy completely, lol.

Looking forward to the pics - Have fun! I will live vicariously through you folks until I can smash my own.

[PumpkinAle]

26. Leaf........... what

range is she thinking of?

It truly is a great little car I was impressed. Not overjoyed when my DH bought one, but have been won over. I wanted the Chevy Volt....... have you looked at them?

We usually get about equiv 80+ MPG on a charge, but we have to go up a very steep mountain road and that hurts the "mpg". Definitely get more "mpg" when it is warmer.

Chargers are popping up all over the place now and you can quick charge while shopping.

Happy shopping, hope she gets the car she really wants.

[Xithras]

35. Several hundred miles.

We live in Central California and she does trips to the Livermore wine country, Lodi, Paso Robles, Napa, Sonoma, Shenandoah, and other northern and central California wine regions with her friends on a fairly regular basis. The closest of these to our home is Lodi, and it's an 80 mile round trip over flat ground. The rest are even further and involve hills and passes. The Leaf isn't suitable for that kind of driving.

She also does trail riding on her bicycle in the Sierra foothills. Most of those drives are only 50-60 mile round trips, but ALL of them involve driving in hilly areas. Same problem.

The Leaf is a great "around town" car, but when you live in a place like I do, you tend to do a lot of "away from town" driving

[PumpkinAle]

37. Our "town" is 20 miles away, a lot closer

than yours. Surprisingly the Leaf can really climb twisty, turny steep mountain roads with no trouble, but as you say not good for you.

May be you should go for a Tesla

I love the area where you live, very beautiful.

Happy driving to you and your wife.

[mackerel]

39. Omgeeeee we're practically neighbors. LOL

[Kali]

28. I don't know what new technology the 2015s have, but I bought a Kia Soul

a little over a year ago (and it was 2 years old) and I freaking love it. lots of head and leg room, 33mpg for me most of the time, though admittedly that is primarily highway. the tech in mine seems advanced (I can't figure out half of it, but that isn't saying much ) not sure about cameras - don't think mine has any, no idea about the newer ones

I have had a bike in it and you can get a rack for the top too, as another alternative.

[PasadenaTrudy]

33. Electric Soul!

They just put out an electric version of the Soul. I'd love to tell people I have an Electric Soul

[cyberswede]

36. I second the Soul!

One of the reasons we picked the Soul is that our then-13 year old was 6'2", so we need a spacious back seat and decent head room. The rear seats fold down for cargo space - either one or both, for flexibility.

We can connect phones via bluetooth for hands-free phone; it has USB port and a mini jack. My husband connects his iPod to listen to podcasts or his own music on the road.

the backup camera is cool - really helpful when parallel parking, especially.

I like the car - it feels zippy to drive it, but it feels roomy inside at the same time.

[olddots]

29. we have a 2013 Prius

absolutely boring with no personality but we average a solid 50 mpg .

Its a big compromise between fun and practical now ,the Honda Fit and Mazda 3 ate fun amd get good milage but a big back seat might mean you need a bigger car.

[Sherman A1]

30. I have a 2008 Yaris

It's a 2 door, but they now make a 4 door version. I have been very happy with it throughout the years. It is a basic commuter car for me. I wanted a Prius at the time, but it was out of my price range so opted for the Yaris after about a year of research. My requirement was gas mileage and enough comfort for about a 45 minute commute.

It has served me well and I expect it to do so for the next 3 or more years.

[Sancho]

31. Prius..and read Consumer Reports

My wife also didn't want a Prius at first. She finally picked a color she liked, etc. Now she loves it. A very convenient car with low cost per miles. May not be for everyone, but for a school teacher who doesn't like to put in gas it is a nice car.

[Enrique]

32. Pope Francis drives a Focus

just saying

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

40. Ford Fiesta and Focus FAIL

Firstly, I drive exclusively in the city, so I'm harder on the clutch than y'all will ever be. That said, read this

http://m.wtae.com/news/investigation-finds-hundreds-of-complaints-about-ford-transmissions/24333878

I replaced the clutch on my 2013 Fiesta at 35K miles. On the bright side, Ford has extended our warranty from 5
/60K to 7/100K.

[we can do it]

43. Subaru Impreza

[Agschmid]

47. Yup!

[Xithras]

55. It's already on our list of cars to look at.

I currently own a Forester, which I'll probably be trading in for an XV or an Outback next year. There is no way she's picking a car without at least taking an Impreza for a test drive

[we can do it]

58. We have a 2010 and a 2012.

Our insurance is now half what it was and if you have to go in the snow there is no comparison.

[LiberalEsto]

44. We have a 2005 Toyota Matrix

It still runs well and gets decent mileage. The best thing about it is that the rear seats fold flat and it can carry an amazing amount of stuff. The front seats are also higher off the ground than a regular passenger car, which helps my back.

That said, the materials used for the interior lining and dashboard are not as durable as I'd like. And the light blue metallic paint exterior scratches far too easily.

[Agschmid]

46. Subaru Impreza is a great car.

[d_r]

51. look at ford cmax

Roomier than focus but same frame and better mpg.

Eta we love ours. It has more umph than prius. It is American made by American UAW workers for an American company. It is a hybrid. It is comfortable. If you like tech it is like driving a tie fighter.

ETA
http://www.treehugger.com/cars/test-drive-ford-c-max-hybrid-vs-toyota-prius-v.html

http://www.autoguide.com/car-comparisons/2013-ford-cmax-vs-2013-toyota-prius-v-comparison-test-2688.html

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1304_2012_toyota_prius_v_vs_2013_ford_c_max_hybrid_comparison/

[txwhitedove]

52. PriusC 4-door gets 50-mpg, zippy and lots of personality for me.

[Barack_America]

53. Our Ford CMax texts us...

...when it's not charging. Plug-in hybrid so no "range anxiety". Assembled in Wayne, MI.

We like it. I'd say it's worth a look.

[Xithras]

56. We were looking at the C-Max while at the dealership. It's a nice looking car. But....

I'm just not convinced that it's worth the money.

A decently equipped 5 door C-Max gets 42mpg city and 37 mpg highway for $27,000.

A comparably equipped 5 door Focus gets 29mpg city and 40mpg highway for $23,500

The extra $3500 provides a modest 13mpg gain in the city, and actually costs you gas mileage on the highway. And that's before even getting into the costs of installing the charging station in your garage.

On top of that, Ford released redesigned versions of most of its cars in 2015, but delayed the release of the redesigned C-Max until 2016. Whenever body styles change, the resale value of the previous design drops significantly. Anyone buying a C-Max in 2015 will see serious value depreciation during the first year. It's a bummer that they delayed the release too...I've already seen photos of the new 2016 C-Max and it's a great update. If we were buying next year, the looks would have put it near the top of our shortlist. The current C-Max isn't ugly, but I'm not a real fan of the odd triple grille. The new Ford designs are a big step forward.

It's a nice car, but I don't know if it makes a lot of financial sense to buy one right now. Since my wife doesn't want to wait another year to buy, we skipped over it.

[Barack_America]

57. The government rebate sold us on the Energi.

$4000, plus we received a $2500 charging system free of charge, as part of another program. That adds to the value of our home.

We work within electric range, so our lifetime mpg is 90.

So, for us, it has been a great investment.

[IcyPeas]

54. I have a 2007 nissan Versa hatchback...

I really like it. I like having a hatchback. 2007 was the first year it was out in the U.S. I didn't get all the new technology they have now. I got the CVT.

On a funny note, when this car was reviewed back in 2007 in the L.A. Times, the reviewer gave it a very good review BUT said this:

The 2007 Chevy Aveo LS and the 2007 Nissan Versa are a couple of the cheapest cars on the market, with out-the-door prices between $12,000 and $15,000 (the average new-car price is $28,400). Both are four-door, five-seat, front-drive runabouts with sub-2-liter four-bangers under the hood. Both come in hatchback and sedan configurations.

And both repel the attentions of the opposite sex like Gortex repels water. These cars have the erotic charge of abstinence-based education, the epicurean frisson of room-temperature tofu.

Yet both are, I discovered, pretty endearing little cars. To drive them is to benchmark how far cheap transportation has come since the days of the death-wishful Ford Aspire and Chevy Celebrity. Both are safe -- with good to great government ratings in front and side crash tests and reasonably fuel-efficient (in the 30-mpg range). Both are spacious, lively and fun to drive within their cheapskate limits. Either has fit and finish and a list of optional equipment that would have been the envy of Rolls Royce a decade ago.

I laughed. It's not that bad looking! Mine is blue onyx with 54,000 ish miles. It's taller than some other cars.

My last car was a Mazda 323 -- I had it for 13 years -- it never gave me any trouble. Just regular maintenance.

Good luck with the decision.