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Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsAny DU car nuts out there? Seeking advice on next purchase...
(The following could be read as very elitist, so if you're a liberal progressive that doesn't understand why some people enjoy up-market cars, please don't report this post. I'm a liberal progressive and cars are my only vice. I always have a nice car. Perhaps it was growing up in a family that had complete disrespect for their vehicles. Whatever it is, I am a fanatic.)
So, my lease is up on my 2012 Infiniti M. I turn her in in about four weeks and am weighing my options. I've test drove a few different new and used beasts, and have narrowed it down to the following choices:
1. Another Infiniti M (now called the "Q70" .
2. A 2007-2009 Audi S8.
(I took buying my leased vehicle off the table as they want $10,000 more than market value. Crazy how that works. They will NOT negotiate. I've been there on previous Infiniti leases and I know the drill. They're nuts!)
Audi S8
The Audi S8 has a Lamborghini V10 engine with a 5.2L displacement which has been tuned for low-end torque to power this full-sized beast to 60 in 5 seconds. Naturally, as an Audi, it's all-wheel drive. The MSRP for these cars was well over six figures when new. Due to absurd depreciation (43% in the first year alone), these older models are now hovering around $30K-$40K on dealer lots.
Pros: Lambo V10! Jesus Christ, is that not enough? Looks extremely classy and timeless. Gorgeous interior. Audi engineering quality.
Cons: German cars seem to have electrical issues (might be a misconception). Lambo V10 sounds pricey to work on without a warranty.
Infiniti M56
The Infiniti M56 has a V8 engine with 5.6L displacement producing around 420HP and rockets this mid-sized luxury sedan to 60 in around 5 seconds as well. It's also all-wheel drive, which is very important to me. New, I think the vehicle is way over priced at $70K topped off so a lease would be mandatory for afforability. But used 2011-2012 models, at $25K-$35K, they are a bargain.
Pros: Japanese quality and reliability. Looks delicious driving down the road! Familiarity with this vehicle and its performance characteristics. Matches the older Audi in terms of features, comforts, and gizmos.
Cons: Marquee not as prestigious as anything German.
So my question, fellow liberal car nuts, is: what would you do? Both of these vehicles are in my price range. Both have extended warranties available that meet my criteria (e.g. nothing goes without coverage) and are affordable.
Thoughts?
TuxedoKat
(3,818 posts)He's a big time car nut. He even reads car magazines in German (not his native language!). He may have another recommendation though! For myself, I like the looks of the Infiniti. It just looks smoother and more modern to me.
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)ReverendDeuce
(1,643 posts)The E-class, BMW 5-series, Infiniti M, Audi S6, and Lexus GS are about as small as I can fit.
OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)I'd pick the Audi from the two above. It looks more badass to me. The Infiniti just looks too dull to me.
I should say I don't know much about high end cars at all and not much more about low end cars. If I had the time, money and skill I'd love to restore a 68 Firebird and I'd be happy with that.
So if you're interested in a non-car guy's opinion on looks alone, there ya are. I imagine either way you'll feel pretty damn sporty zooming around in one of those. I know a car guy at work who loooooooooves audis for whatever that's worth
RobinA
(9,893 posts)The Infiniti looks like an updated Taurus to me.
However...a V10 is a bit much in my book, and I've had way better luck with Japanese cars than German.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Not a big fan of the big sedan-type cars. For that price range, I would get an MX-5, personally. My dad actually bought a 2007 911 for not much more than you are quoting there.
I realize that's not helpful advice. I like the Audi better, at least the way it looks. That Infiniti looks just like a Nissan Maxima, which I guess is what it is.
He said the Audi. I'll pm you the messages in detail.
Oops, ignore this, posted in wrong spot.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)Based on that, I'd go with the Infiniti, personally.
ReverendDeuce
(1,643 posts)From the beginning of my time with them to the time I sold them or traded them, they've maintained their like-new quality. Fit and finish has been top shelf. Not one has ever had a single mechanical issue. Absolutely worry free.
From what I hear of Audi and the German makes, electrical problems happen but they are not the type of problems that leave you with a non-functional car. It's more of things like "oops, the automatic door closer thingy doesn't work."
The warranty I am looking at covers everything. It even covers the factory stereo and GPS unit.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)steve2470
(37,457 posts)Last edited Mon Aug 4, 2014, 03:23 PM - Edit history (1)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1205499steve2470
(37,457 posts)cloudbase
(5,519 posts)owns a shop that specializes in repairs to BMW/MB/Audi.
He makes lots of money, and he drives a Lexus.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,369 posts)and as such, must admit that I haven't put hundreds of miles on either but rather hundreds of yards, I would go with the Audi.
I think the fit and finish to the Audi is superior. Their driveability is also legendary.
Infiniti and Lexus for that matter, just seem to be trying too hard. It is, in my opinion anyway, little more than a gussied up Nissan (in the case of Infiniti). The Infiniti will probably be a lot cheaper to maintain though.
It has always struck me how quickly Infiniti and lexus models seem to deteriorate. They just do not seem to me to hold up well over time.
BTW, Are you sure about the "Lamborghini V-10"? Are you positive a German Car maker is buying their engines from the Italians?
ReverendDeuce
(1,643 posts)The Lamborghini Gallardo V10 was made by Volkswagen for then. The Audi S8 derivative is slightly modified from the Lamborghini version, here are the details from the Wiki:
"The D3 series S8 features a 5.2-litre all-aluminium alloy four-valves per cylinder V10 petrol engine. This engine is a derivative of the Lamborghini Gallardo's original 5.0-litre Lamborghini V10, which was also developed under the Volkswagen Group ownership. On this Audi-only variant, compared to the Lamborghini engine, it features a longer stroke and wider borewhich increases the displacement of the engine, and produces more torque at lower revs, making it more suitable for the larger and heavier full-sized luxury Audi application. It produces 331 kW (444 hp) of power and 540 N·m (398 lb·ft) of torque. By having its bore whittled out an additional 2 millimetres (0.1 in), displacement in the S8 application increases from 5.0- to 5.2-litres. The engine also features Audi's direct-injection system, called Fuel Stratified Injection (FSI)."
A HERETIC I AM
(24,369 posts)Then go for it!
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)steve2470
(37,457 posts)I wonder how much those are worth these days. Probably a lot.
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)I mean most of them were rust buckets after a year on the road so I would suspect most of them are just piles of rust in a junkyard somewhere.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)Could not find one. Granted, I did not spend hours looking, but you're probably right.
bluesbassman
(19,374 posts)The Infinity is a good looking car, but the lines are just a bit quirky for me and I'd probably tire of it sooner than later. I'd go with the Audi.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)One: do not buy that S8 without a warranty. Period. But the ps is try and buy a maintenance warranty as well. I bet the oil change (dealership only too) is at least $350. Minimum.
Then brakes. Consider the mileage and consider the brake wear. Brakes are probably 1k each. Read the service history too.
Two. Stop messin about and get a 2010 M5 or 550i
ReverendDeuce
(1,643 posts)As for the warranty, good points. I would never buy one without as close to a full coverage warranty as possible. I'll look into maintenance contracts as well.
As for the BMW... the BMW 5-series is uncomfortable to me. No matter how I adjust the seat, I cannot get away from the goddamn B-pillar. It's always pressing up against my left shoulder and it makes the car impossible to get out of without going through contortions. Same with the 7-series.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)Sometimes forgets their's a driver.
I'm a bmw nut. Traded In and out of 6 of them so far and in none of them have I ever seen the full instrument cluster and until I figured out the seat I could have invested in tiger balm.
So I'm with you there.
I'm a New Yorker (adopted anyway) and driving an Audi for me is like visiting LA. I try to love it, but after a short while I remember why I don't like and head back to stuffy, cramped, lovely BMW, er, NYC.
ReverendDeuce
(1,643 posts)As I said, I've had three M-class Infinitis in a row, and they are just so nice to me. It's like the halfway point between BMW and Lexus. Lots of performance, all of the luxury features I want, built solid as hell. They are not nearly as glued-to-the-pavement as BMW, though. That I wholly agree with. Nothing feels like the BMW. And BMW does have more whiz-bang gadgets.
Lexus is completely placid to me. The most boring cars on the road. Like Cadillac. That Cadillac XTS V-Sport has the dual-turbo V6 with 400hp, but it's like driving a pillow around. The body roll is out of goddamn control!
So for me, the Infiniti is a nice spot between the two. Audi sort of feels the same.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)How I feel about Benz. To a tee.
I drove the 2014 Infiniti q50. Yawner for me. I'm sure I'd like the m class. Always been a fan especially the older rear wheel drive ones.
I also like Nissan engines in general. Gutsy.
ReverendDeuce
(1,643 posts)The Q50 looks great and is an exceptional value in that size class. You really need to pay attention to how the adaptive steering and throttle response are configured for you. If you leave it tuned for "comfort", you'll feel like you're driving dad's old Buick.
As for Mercedes... the E-class is mundane, the S-class looks like grandpa on the inside (it looks like it needs bench seats and a transmission stalk coming from the wheel with a faux wood knob on the end).
The M's have been great. The others here have assumed it's a re-badged Maxima, which is not true at all. There's nothing the two cars share. I like how I can easily defeat all the nanny options with real buttons. The M56 can deliver some impressive burnouts with AWD and traction control shut off. The sport model includes some extra goodies and paddle shifters.
I keep sticking up for Infiniti because I like them, obviously. But I do feel like it's time for a change having owned three M's in a row.
ReverendDeuce
(1,643 posts)It doesn't appear to be true. Brake work is the same deal.
The dealer who has the one I want has ASE staff. In order to get an extended warranty from Nissan they have to complete a 156-point inspection which includes tire and brake wear, just about every fluid I've ever heard of, shocks, a litany of things.
Nissan's warranty is the only one I could find that would cover this vehicle. It's managed by Nissan Extended Service North America for non-Nissan vehicles and they sell to the public. You just need to use their CPO checklist. They offer extensions all the way to 100,000 miles (only an additional 2/24 at 100K, though). For the one I am looking at, I can get a 3/36 or 3/48 for quite a reasonable price.
The warranty is an exclusionary warranty and even covers the on-board GPS, stereo, and every gizmo in the car.
I can get the repairs at an Audi dealer or any ASE-certified shop.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)But I don't really follow on what I was incorrect about. Cost or if it's covered?
It was just a guess based on my bmw experiences.
Certainly you could use an ASE Cert. repair place, but I wouldn't trust it. You gotta dig pretty deep to find a Lambo tech.
ReverendDeuce
(1,643 posts)At least that's what it looks like you wrote. Maybe I misunderstood. Same with the brake work.
As for a mechanic that can work on the V10, this is true and obviously I'd make every effort to have a VW or Audi tech work on it rather than some local yokel.
The only items the warranty doesn't cover (I just re-read) are obvious wear items (pads, rotors, wiper blades, upholstery), non-OEM equipment, oddball stuff like the hydropneumatic suspension as seen in Peugeots (I've asked for clarification on whether or not the OEM adaptive suspension is covered, but I believe it would be as it is not stated as an exclusionary item), and, amusingly enough, they even state that the GPS Navigation DVD *disc* is not covered (the drive is, but not the disc). When I read that, I LOL'ed -- at least they are thorough!
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)Good reads.
I vote audi. When is your next chance to drive a Lambo V10 incognito like that.
I bet that thing still kicks like a bull on up the gear box.
That 560 sure did.
ReverendDeuce
(1,643 posts)Nobody pays $300 for nav discs anymore.
There are some impressive videos on YouTube...
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)ReverendDeuce
(1,643 posts)That looks even MORE exotic to deal with should issues arise.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)Can't imagine the real world/day-to-day trials of that engine, but damn!
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)In a Lamborghini Gallardo 560.
petronius
(26,602 posts)Although I know nothing much of cars (my vices tend in other directions) so my opinion is pretty-much meaningless...
maddezmom
(135,060 posts)I just got a previously own certified 2011 BMW535i. It is my first sedan in over 12 years...been driving SUVs. Absolutely love it and the gas mileage isn't bad either.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)I had the 2010 wagon. Only difference is twin turbo vs the new twin scroll turbo. Same stats though.
Loved it. Hugged it goodbye.
Yes. I hugged it goodbye.
maddezmom
(135,060 posts)Had a used 2004 M series wagon my first time in the UK...cuz the roads were so much smaller it took me a long time to get adjusted, but loved it. Ex had a used 3 series convert able that I loved to tool around in when he was on business. All and all I am pleased with my purchase and got the extended warranty.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)First one since the late 90's. That was a lifted 4runner. This one, an x5. Kinda the same.
maddezmom
(135,060 posts)LOL! My last car in the UK was a Volvo x5...nice, safe but was the fleet car for most expats. Boring.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)Loved everything but driving it.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)mnhtnbb
(31,390 posts)We even took it out one night, top down, to see the Christmas lights (no snow on the streets)
in Lincoln, NE before we moved. Sleigh ride in a BMW anyone?
irisblue
(32,975 posts)could you take me on your test drive? I know nothing about cars.....but I can tell you how the passenger seat works.
BootinUp
(47,156 posts)And built for passengers. lol.
locks
(2,012 posts)will help save the planet and your bank account. 56 miles to the gallon.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)And other matters
Throd
(7,208 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)So I can't say I know a thing about the two you are considering.
That said, I have a friend with an Audi who, if he had it to do over again, would not. The damn thing is ALWAYS in the shop.
I like reliable cars, myself!
ReverendDeuce
(1,643 posts)I realize that lots of this is anecdotal, but still it's good to hear others' opinions.
What Audi did your friend have, do you know?
MADem
(135,425 posts)It is only a few years old, now, and it's been in and out of the shop since it was new.
They're very good at giving him the "loaner" car, but they should, at those prices.
Every time I see him in a different color car, I know he's got that thing in the shop!
Once I got to gloat when I gave him a ride to the dealership to pick up his loaner when his car was towed (wouldn't start).
My car is a shitbox, but it takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'!
mnhtnbb
(31,390 posts)I've had three BMW's--all pre-owned, certified--bought them when they were 2 years old and
low miles--and none has had an electrical problem. All 3 series: convertible, sedan, now a wagon.
I do love the ride.
My oldest son drives autocross here in NC. When he was in Germany last May (we were all visiting
youngest son living in Berlin) he drove a BMW wagon from Berlin to Frankfurt so he could, of course,
drive the Nurburgring. He had the BMW up to 145 MPH on the road. (You have to rent special vehicles
for the Nurburgring.) He said it was fantastic handling.
ReverendDeuce
(1,643 posts)So, it's been difficult to ascertain a lot of the details about the Audi and I'm a bit flummoxed. It seems that the 2007 Audi S8 model does NOT have adaptive cruise control or lane departure warning. I use the adaptive cruise control in my Infiniti all of the time, sometimes even in the city on major thoroughfares. The lane departure warning and blind spot detection are also things I find very useful. They are quite reliable when it comes to merging and changing lanes.
These features are on the 2008 model, but I am not sure how to identify whether or not the features are installed. The ventilated/cooled seats are easy to spot as there is a button in the center console. The lane departure/blind spot apparently have their LED indicators on the inside of the side mirrors, but apparently these are not standard features.
Do I really need this? I don't know... I've only had blind spot warnings since 2011. I've had adaptive cruise for nine years now and I make heavy use of it.
I'll be driving several hours on Friday and I'll give it a shot with both features disabled in my Infiniti to see what the experience is like. I hope I can live with it, because these Audis are just so damned sexy...