"Walking Dead" fans: Question about Carl and Herschel.

[Brigid]

Herschel was very concerned about witnessing Carl shoot that kid -- so much so, he talked to Rick about it. If Herschel was so sure that Carl did the wrong thing, why didn't he stop him?

[texanwitch]

1. I am pissed at Herschel for making a big deal about this.

Carl did give the kid a chance, more then I would have.

I have rewatched the scene several times, the kid was up to something.

Anybody else would have run away for put down the gun.

This a teenage kid that believe what the Gov said, wanted to be a hero.

Carl didn't do anything that Rick woulldn't have done.

Rick did it in the bar with the two strangers.

[texanwitch]

4. Carl is not a normal kid anymore.

He had to shoot his mother.

He made a mistake with Dale, not shooting the zombie earlier.

Yes he is cold, I don't blame him.

I have been living under a lot of stress, and there are days I feel cold toward people.

The kid had shotgun, that can do a lot of damage.

I had a shotgun pointed at me once, my cousin thought it was funny.

Carl has grown up very fast, had no choice.

Is there a childhood for children in Walker Land.

Think about the new baby, what is she going to know or be like.

[MiddleFingerMom]

2. Herschel had no warning that he was going to shoot --

.
.
.
...no more so than we the viewers had.
.
I'm torn about Carl's justification. I've SEEN the police use GREAT restraint when dealing with a veru dangerous
criminal -- I would've been scared and maybe shot the guy. He had several guns aimed at him and STILL was
angrily aggressive.
.
But they have training for that -- Carl didn't. PLUS the teen should've just dropped the gun immediately -- he
kept approaching Carl and had a crafty look on his face, I begrudgingly side with Carl.
.
But Herschel saw a coldness in Carl that DOES need to be addressed by Rick -- despite the times he lives in,
he's still just a kid. He's been given way too much responsibility and he's decided that, at his age -- fuck you,
Dad.
.
.
.

[Brigid]

3. I think that is why Herschel talked to Rick.

Last edited Mon Apr 1, 2013, 11:46 PM - Edit history (1)

That coldness. It's downright scary in a kid that age. How Rick is supposed to guide him through his teen years in an environment like that, I don't know.

[texanwitch]

5. His childhood ended when he had to shoot his mother.

He hasn't been the same since.

Rick needs to be less of a leader and more of a father now.

[texanwitch]

8. The kid was point in the prison, he had the shotgun for that reason.

He should have dropped the gun and backed off.

He did have strange look in his eye.

[SEMOVoter]

6. As a mom, and I'm not praising Lori

But back in season two, Lori was still clinging to concepts of "education" for Carl. In one scene she had him doing math or something or other on Hershel's farm.

Imagine a world where concepts like education and a future aren't really valued or even necessary. The infrastructure mentioned in other comments, like a police force or even a judicial system just aren't there. There's no reason for Carl to second guess his decision to shoot the kid. What will Rick do to penalize him? No TV?

I thought the scene was important because ethics and morality don't just boil down to how much infrastructure there is to support it or the punishment one might face for bad judgement.

Carl stated fairly clearly his take on the subject. That in his experience, allowing the kid to live meant someone in his circle might die, so he felt and obligation to kill him. It is a tough ethos. One we seem to draw closer to by eliminating education and opportunities in the real world.

Just my two cents, for what that's worth.


Also, we need a zombie emotion.

[texanwitch]

7. The old world did go to hell quickly.

This is Carl's world now, and his baby sister.

[SEMOVoter]

9. Also, I think there Carl is experiencing Abjection from Killing Lori

Not to get all psychological, but It's pretty wild and horrific, but I think this is Carl's mental state.

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Abjection

[kudzu22]

10. I think the scene was supposed to show the growing coldness in Carl

Personally, I think Carl was right to shoot. You got some unknown guy, likely from the enemy camp, coming at you with a gun. You tell him to drop it, but he keeps advancing, slowly, and doesn't drop it. I'm not a cop but I think most cops would shoot in that situation. I think the writers made it a deliberately ambiguous situation to let viewers draw their own conclusions about Carl.

[CrawlingChaos]

16. I didn't think it was nearly as cold as not stopping for poor Backpack Guy in the Episode "Clear"

I thought that scene, in particular, was a very effective snapshot of how much the group has changed.

I still think about Backpack Guy!

[SirRevolutionary]

11. Ok here goes...spoiler if you haven't seen the show

Herschel didn't have any time to react, Carl just shot. Carl's reasoning is very similar to what the Governor was saying "In this life now, you kill or you die...Or you die and you kill." Carl's an extremely messed up kid at this point in the story because of all they've been through.

Two things bother me, when Rick first decided to give up Michonne and this deal with Carl. Rick actually did tell Merle to get Michonne, he regretted his decision later, but it was after the fact. Oddly, she forgave Rick pretty quickly too and the whole thing was forgotten.

With Carl, the whole controversy I see revolves around so many people looking at the one side of the issue: kill people before they can kill you. Reminds me of Tolkein's Gandalf when he said in the Lord of the Rings "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends."

If they're going to keep Rick as the quintessential good guy in the show, he'll have to explain to Carl the other side of his own reasoning, he may have just shot a potentially great ally. Who could say what that kid's present and future behavior would have been, look at Merle. He helped out finally after being a bad guy for so long. What if Rick had killed him earlier?

My point is if you're going to be the good guy, you're not allowed to behave like the bad guys. Else you've become the thing you hate and you're just another side of the same coin. Yes, I realize the show is about surviving the zombie apocalypse but all along Rick was the one who wanted to retain some semblance of humanity for his group, and unless they're going to devolve into animals, that's what Herschel's point was. Win or lose, the end doesn't justify the means.

[texanwitch]

12. I look at the scene as Carl did not know what was going on at the prison.

I am sure that there was a bug out car somewhere nearby for his group.

They had a crazy guy coming to kill them, all of them.

Rules can of go out the window when this happens.

Now Glen and Maggie didn't shoot to kill but they had on body armour.

Carl is a good kid, he did go help the group that came in the back of prison.

No one else wanted to.

Carl is not going to be normal anymore.

Rules from the past cannot always be followed.

I hope things can get better for the group but it will never be like the past.

This was interesting scene.

[MiddleFingerMom]

13. THIS will be interesting. Carl was immediately and seriously...

.
.
.
... disgusted when he saw that they were taking in a sizable number of
old, "useless and non-contributing" people to add to their responsibilities.
.
He's making me think more and more of Shane as the show progresses.
.
.
.

[texanwitch]

14. This did bother me.

He will be a handful as he gets bigger, he is still a little kid.

Killing his Mother was a life changer for him.

I am quessing just being with a small group of people for so long had its effects on him.

I hope he doesn't get like Shane.

I don't know how Carl is like in the comic books.

[Iggo]

15. Carl said "Drop it".

The kid didn't drop it, but instead moved slowly toward Carl while raising the gun. Herschel left that part out when he ratted him out to Rick.

[texanwitch]

17. The kid was looking back and forth from Herschel to Carl.

I could see the little wheels going around his little head.

He was at first surprised by the group.

He was told do drop his gun, he didn't.

He just kept coming foward with his gun pointed to the side a little.

He was the point in the prison, the Gov told him to go ahead.

I don't think the kid was that afraid of a little kid and a old man.

He was just trying to get the drop on them.

He was a teen, they don't always think so clearly.

You don't offer your gun to someone like that holding a gun on you.

This scene shows the difference between the old world and the new world.

Herschel grew up in the old world and has different values.

Carl is of the new world and can't always have the same old values .

The teen was a danger to the group.

Herschel saw him as a kid with a gun.

Carl didn't, he saw a danger to the group.

Carl will need to be a little cold to make it.

I don't think Walkers and bad guys are going away in the future.

He has a little sister and Beth to take care of.

Glen and Maggie are the next youngest in the group.

The rest are older by several years.

It is good news that some of the new people are kids, a future fighting force.

I don't want to see Carl go all Shane on us, but Shane did have a point.

Carl has his little sister to keep him grounded.

You do need rules and laws but it has to be grounded in the fact that you live in a walker world.

In that world it is hard to trust everyone.

Look what Rick did with the backpack guy, just left him to die.

That was very cold.

[Iggo]

18. Re: The Backpack Guy

Exactly.

That was cold, cold, cold. But Rick didn't bat an eye letting that guy die and then taking his stuff. And if he doesn't think that Carl learned that lesson, he better think again. (Carl was in the car when that happened, right?)

[texanwitch]

19. He was in the back of the car.

Rick didn't pick the guy up because he didn't trust him.

Carl shoot the teen because he didn't trust him.

Carl learned a lot on that trip.

The backpack guy could have been of some help, we will never know.

That was one cold scene, twice he asked for help.

[walkerbait41]

20. We think Carl did the right thing

This kid could have killed Rick or any of the others. How was Carl to know? Yes we think he did the right thing.

[texanwitch]

21. Carl has learned from his mistakes.

With the zombie in the woods he was playing with.

He didn't kill him so the zombie got Dale.

Carl has learned.

The kid with the shotgun would have killed our guys, no problem about that.

He looked excited in the prison, he was point.

Carl was protecting his own family.

The kid was stupid.