How come clients who want immediate turnarounds are the slowest to pay their invoices?

[Throd]

They are the ones who assume I'm just sittin' around with my thumb up my ass waiting for their next job.

"I'm not going to inquire as to your current schedule and expect this back by the end of the day."

Really, you're going to e-mail me a pile-of-shit source material and expect a full branding program in 6 hours?

Sorry, I'm just a graphic designer venting about some downsides of my job.

What are yours?

[Sekhmets Daughter]

1. The bigger the client the slower the pay, right?

I was the general contractor for a home we built in 1990. I expected, as a one-shot-deal that it would take longer for me to get the job completed as the subs would bump me to the bottom of the pile in any scheduling conflict. I paid within 24 hours of receiving the bill...always in person. I ended up always being on the top of the schedule, because they knew they would be paid. My electrical contractor told me the bigger the building contractor the slower the pay. Doesn't seem like a smart way to do business.

[Throd]

2. That seems to be the trend.

Having a reputation for prompt payment seems to be a great way to retain the most reliable talent

[Sekhmets Daughter]

3. You would think! But the big guys become arrogant.

[Bake]

6. It's the American (corporate) way!

Superman ... truth, justice, and the American way ... and all the rest of that bullshit.

Bake

[Sekhmets Daughter]

9. There are times when

I would just like to see the entire system completely collapse...but for those on the bottom who would be completely crushed.

I wish Ayn Rand hadn't hijacked the Atlas Metaphor...It is the ever shrinking middle class, not just here but globally, that carries the load and supports the edifice. I'm getting tired of it myself...very tired. I don't want to shrug...I want to pitch the weight into the sea.

[jmowreader]

4. Actually...

...the clients who want the very fastest turnaround are getting their work done free.

[Munificence]

5. I owned a Print and Mail Shop

I owned a print and mail shop, put out about 50 million pieces of direct mail a year (sold it two years ago and retired). Being that corporate marketing departments would fuck around with a job for 3 months and then finally call me 2 days before it was supposed to be in the mail all I can say is that I feel your pain.

Getting payment from the big clients is really tough. Most used to be 45-60 days then I seen it switched to 90 and realistically it would be 120. And then I'd most likely get a phone call somewhere along the line with someone saying "Man we messed up the budget on this job, anyway we could get you to reduce your invoice by 5%". When this happens you know you are being fleeced and you have to go along with it if you ever expect to get any more work from them.

Welcome to the world of "doing your own thing". Most think it's roses that have never done it.

[Bake]

7. Like I said, it's the American Way.

Sucks, don't it?



Bake

[kentauros]

8. That very complaint is why I didn't apply my Graphic Design degree

beyond doing pastry work for a few years. I found I was much happier back in drafting and engineering design. There's a different kind of bullshit in this field, but it's nothing compared to working with asshole/cheap-bastard clients

[Phentex]

15. Can I butt in and ask you and other designers about client expectations?

It's been my experience that one should never do business with a friend or friend of a friend. I am also the ornery type that belives in clarifying expecations up front and getting everything in writing.

We ordered some small signs from a local shop that our office manager recommended. She had used his services in a previous business and had been very pleased with his prices and quality. I was not involved in this order but everything went fine.

We decided to move our office and wanted to tweak our logo just a bit. Even though we originally loved the logo, there were some things about it that made it less than perfect. The color was hard to read on paper. The position of a small character/doodad was meant to add movement to the logo but actually interfered with the name of the business. All we wanted was someone to change the color and move the graphic the right of the name. We needed it put into all the formats for printing stationery and ordering a new store front sign.

Initially, I was not involved except to ask how much this was going to cost us. They didn't get anything in writing, just a phone quote. They presented him with a paper copy of the logo with the doodad cut out and moved to the right of the name. Also gave him the electronic versions of the old logo. Many of these are in formats that we ourselves cannot open because of the software.

The first draft he came back with was a brand new logo (different lettering, different graphic, very odd colors). Apparently, the office manager and partner just laughed and laughed when they saw it. So they called him and told him that it wasn't at all something they wanted and to please just look at the old design and make those changes. He did express some concern about copyright. I'm not sure why.

He was very fast. I'll give him that. But each design got worse and moved farther away from our logo. After going back and forth, my partner finally blew her stack. She went to his shop and just asked him outright what was going on. She wanted to know if we had not been clear and what would it take to get what we needed.

I should have asked MFM to do this!

By now, the designer said he didn't want to spend any more time on it - and honestly I can't say I blame him. It did not seem like he was ever going to understand. However, we paid him and we got nothing. What do you make of this?

Meanwhile, I contacted the people (out of state) who did the original logo and they made the changes FOR FREE. Took them about a day to send it to us. I ended up ordering all my new print materials from them just because I like them and they do good work.

So much for trying to help the local shop owner and friend.

[kentauros]

16. Normally, it's the opposite.

That is, not doing design work for friends or friends of friends. It sounds more like this first designer never truly understood what was required of him. If he thought the logo required a re-design, then I don't understand why he didn't ask that, just to be sure. Logo-design is a long process, yet I always found it fun, as it really tested my design ability.

I don't think this guy was milking y'all, just not too good at being specific enough to make sure everyone was "on the same page."

[NV Whino]

10. I blame it on computers

First, everybody and his dog got a computer and thought they could do it better than you could.
Second, when they figured out they couldn't, they did understand how much faster computer design is than the old sketch it out approach, and now they expect you to punch a few keys and spit out that fabulous design they can't do themselves.

Yep, been there, done that.

[Munificence]

11. Haha

I am no designer when it comes to marketing materials, however I did have a small design team (3). I serviced mostly larger corporate accounts and when it came to files and artwork they were pretty squared away, mainly Adobe suite stuff.

I consider myself to be a pretty good person and I'd service the small mom and pop businesses as I wanted so much for them to succeed. With this said my staff of designers/layout/pre press folks used to hate the fact that I'd let these small mom and pop shops roll in with their "Publisher" files!

Yep, give them a computer and an $80 software package and they themselves are designers...plus they will ask for online pricing and need it tomorrow and will pay in 60 days!

Computers made everyone a graphic artist! Most of the time they's ask your opinion, would be like your best friend showing you pictures of their ugly baby and going on about how cute it was...you just say "yep that's beautiful" and go on about your business.

I feel sorry for the good graphic designers in the industry.

[NV Whino]

14. You said it!

I pretty much got out of the design business and went into property management. Pays less, but not as frustrating… and my clients pay quickly.

[hobbit709]

13. I remember a sign at some shop "If you're in a hurry, you're in the wrong place"

[Wait Wut]

17. Oh, I have a list.

Remember, graphic designers and artists just sit around and 'push a couple of buttons' all day, so we have time for lists.

1. "I need this ASAPOMGHURRYAAAAAARRRGGHHHH!!!!" - Bust your ass to get it done. Call customer. "Oh, it's done? Ummmm...I'll be out of town for two weeks. I'll pick it up when I get back. Thanks for getting it done so fast!!!"

2. "I need this ASAPOMGHURRYAAAAAARRRGGHHHH!!!!" - Bust your ass to get it done. Shoot off the FINAL proof. "Oh. I need to make a few changes. I'll get them to you before the end of the day." Two days later, you become concerned and call the customer. "Oh, no. I haven't forgotten. I'm just waiting for Blushnitz to get back from vacation. He should be in tomorrow." Two days later, you call again. "Oh, hi! I was just now sending those changes!" 2 HOURS later, they call. "Did you get the changes I sent? Is the job ready? What do you mean it takes 2 days to print and 1 day for bindery? I told you I needed those ASAPOMGHURRYAAAAAARRRGGHHHH!!!! Well, I demand a discount because of the missed deadline."

3. It just has a 'little color' on it, so you shouldn't charge me as much.

4. On the phone - "Can you tell me how to print a PDF file from this really obscure program that no one has ever heard of that I got free when I bought a box of pens?"

5. "I don't understand why you can't enlarge a 4x4 photo from 1952 to 24x36. What is this 'proportion' you speak of and what the hell does 'resolution' mean? You aren't very helpful."

6. "What do you mean I have to pay up front in cash? Just because the last three jobs took 3 months to pay and two of my checks bounced doesn't mean I'm not trustworthy. It just means I didn't have any money."

[Throd]

18. 7. "What do you mean you don't have Butthole Oblique 721 Extended Demi-Bold?"

That's right. I don't have every typeface. I have about 2,000. Not all of them.

So yes, I am going to charge you for the font I'll never use again.

[Arctic Dave]

19. Oh shite, don't even get me started on slow bill payers.

The bigger the corporation the slower the payment. I actually have to build in time for the countless hours that will be wasted trying to get payed.

Then the constant "changes" to the billing process. This number blah, blah. That verification blah, blah.

And SAP! Fuck that program til the cows come home.