Has anyone else watched Ken Burns "Dust Bowl on PBS?

[Curmudgeoness]

I am so shocked at the magnitude of misery that these people endured. I have heard about the Dust Bowl, and I have read books like "The Grapes of Wrath" that discussed what it was like. But watching this, with pictures and stories of people who lived through it, this is almost too much. Last night, I watched one episode where they had constant dust storms, then they had jack rabbits descend on them and eat all the rest of the green plants, and it kept getting worse. The preview of the next episode showed a horde of locusts. I cannot imagine what these people went through, and I don't know that I could have kept going.

Incredible series, but so depressing. I think everyone should see this----especially the "get government out of our lives" folks. We do not realize how good we have it, even when we don't have it very good.

Anyone else watching?

http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/dustbowl/

[texanwitch]

1. I watched it.

My Father saw many dust storms when he was in the CCC's.

He told me many times about the dust.

Trees were planted to block the wind.

He was stationed in both New Mexico and Texas.

[Curmudgeoness]

4. Right now, they are dealing with the CCC and WPA.

They were just talking about the trees being planted.

This was a difficult time in this country's existence....drought hitting in the middle of the Great Depression after years of poor farming methods. We are seeing nothing like this yet today. And lets hope we never do.

[texanwitch]

5. My father said they planted millions of trees and helped on farms.

Farmers were hard headed about changing their way of farming.

[Curmudgeoness]

6. I wondered if those trees survived

with the years of drought. I am not surprised that there was resistance to change----isn't there always. And it sounds like it was the government who was trying to tell them better farming methods. Although the government was helping so many of these people, they didn't seem to trust it. Sound familiar?

Did you notice this series is making a lot of political statements?

[texanwitch]

7. I hope so.

The farmers plowed straight, didn't want to plow with curve.

Also it took all the farmers to do this.

I am sure some of the trees made it, not all.

I am glad I listened to all the old stories.

My mother's family had it much better in central Texas.

My Granparents kept their farm, they were poor but ate well.

My father picked cotton on a farm next to my Grandparents farm.

That close.

My mother was rich compared to my father.

[Curmudgeoness]

12. This series talks about all this.

And it did address the plowing problems---two of them. One was the straight plows instead of going with the contours of the land, and the other was the plows they were using that loosened all the dirt, not just in furrows. The government actually offered farmers payments to try the new methods of plowing, and this documentary said that many took the payments. I am sure that this helped to convert these farmers as well as others who saw it.

[texanwitch]

16. Smart move, pay to make people change.

I don't think people really ever learn.

Some land should not be farmed.

[Curmudgeoness]

21. And at the end of this documentary

they talk about the irrigation that has helped this area farm again....and how there is only about 20 more years of water available. They may learn one thing, and make even more mistakes.

I thought that was a smart move too, especially since most of the farmers were in dire need of money, so they pretty much had to do it. So I suppose the government isn't always bad.

But I remember reading a book about this time, and it was about a rancher. The government was sending cattle feed that was all moldy and ruined and patting itself on the back about it. That was a very good book, it was a western and I have never read a western before that, but it was highly recommended to me. Elmer Kelton's "The Time it Never Rained".

[ashling]

36. My dad grew up on a farm in North central TX

His father was an FDR Democrat and his grandfather a Texas Populist. He told me that his father cried when he had to shoot his livestock. They were out of the worst of it, but not by much. He said they never had any money, but always had plenty to eat. They almost lost the farm a couple of times for back taxes.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

24. But, the parallels to some of today's issues were so strong it's hard to imagine we won't. In fact,

the doc identified some of the farmers as climate change deniers. More than a parallel, it's the same damn thing, seems to me.

[Curmudgeoness]

38. And did you notice they started to pay farmers not to grow crops?

And the very strong religious beliefs that popped up constantly, with the end of the world prophecies?

I am not sure if that was due to climate change, although I would not be surprised that it was. But I think that much of that area was always arid, and they just did not respect the nature of the land and the local climate. It sounds as if finding water to irrigate was what saved that region for a time, and not a change of climate there.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

47. I think Burns was saying that the extreme lack of rain during the 30's was a mini climate change

that the farmers insisted was going to end "any minute now' and it lasted for ten years.

Yeah, these people, many of whom thought government assistance was shameful or worse, seem to have evolved into people who are willing to, year after year, continue to take money for nothing from the government while still badmouthing government assistance programs.

[derby378]

2. I'll have to catch the repeat sometime

I am very interested in seeing it, though. Burns usually does an excellent job with his subject matter.

[Curmudgeoness]

3. They are repeating some episodes tonight.

That is what prompted me to post this. I only had seen the one they did last night, but it looks like they are trying to catch us up tonight. I am sure they will repeat it more than this. He is doing an excellent job on this.

[ashling]

45. It was pretty good, but

not up to his usual. I may feel that way, however, because I have seen most of this footage before. I usually get a lot of new information or new perspectives.

There was a program a couple of years ago (maybe more) called Black Blizzard which was excellent. Most of this footage as well as the personal perspectives were covered in that. I use it in my online government classes to talk about government's role, public policy, and local politics. Last summer during the drought out here in Texas, I had them do a paper on policy and the role of government using that as background.

[GoneOffShore]

8. Watching now.

It's wonderful.

[Curmudgeoness]

10. Well, it is done wonderfully

but this is breaking my heart. The misery is unimaginable.

[GoneOffShore]

14. True.

[Zorro]

9. This year's extended drought may be an ominous foreboding

of a return to those days.

Climate change is real.

[Curmudgeoness]

11. I absolutely hope not.

And I suppose we should be grateful in another way that we have a Democrat in the White House if anything close to this happens again.

[CBGLuthier]

32. Since those days, Oklahoma has built over 200 lakes. The water I use every day comes from one.

The drought sucks and will have impact but the changes made should prevent the return of another dust bowl.

[Curmudgeoness]

39. I do hope that there is nothing like this again.

We learn, and we make other mistakes. I do not want to see people having to live through something like this ever again.

[elleng]

13. 'Everyone's' watching, watched first half yesterday, 2d half tonight.

[Curmudgeoness]

15. I don't know about "everyone", since

I was the only one at work who had watched it last night. I work with idiots, I suppose. If we aren't talking about Target or Kohls, they aren't interested.

What do you think about it?

[elleng]

17. Its profoundly moving and upsetting.

I really meant 'everyone' at DU, as I've posted info threads about it, and don't speak to or about idiots (often!)

[Curmudgeoness]

18. Ah, yes, everyone at DU

is definitely not everyone. That's why I love it here.

I had to laugh at the cries of "socialism" that the wealthier people were screaming at the time of the Dust Bowl. Some things just never change.

[snappyturtle]

27. Not everyone. I was dying to watch this but PBS doesn't stream

and I could't find a source. Does anyone know of one for us computer only people? I hope PBS eventually makes this available in their video library but since it's Ken Burn's project I doubt it. They'll instead save it for their fundraiser telecasts.

[Curmudgeoness]

40. I don't know if this will work

but it is on the PBS website to watch....

http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/dustbowl/watch-videos/#2304010308

It is also for sale on the PBS shop for $29.95.

I may watch the first half of episode 1 later, since I missed that part----I didn't realize it was on.

[snappyturtle]

46. Thank you for trying to help. If I had money I would have cable or satellite so.....

the videos are good but just teasers for the real thing.

[Curmudgeoness]

50. I just watch the whole first episode at that link, it wasn't a teaser.

Tell me about the money it costs for cable and satellite. I don't have either, but do have an indoor antenna that works pretty well and a converter box for the TV. I get all local channels and a PBS from quite a ways away. I gave up cable years ago.

[snappyturtle]

51. I haven't tried today! Thanks....I tried on the premier dates so...??? nt

[KatyaR]

19. It definitely shows how strong and determined people can be.

What makes me so sad is that Oklahoma and Kansas have such a bad reputation. Families who have been here for generations are some of the strongest and determined people I've ever know, sincere and with really good hearts. But most of the country just sees us as a bunch of stupid Repuke hicks.

As a side note, the local PBS station did an interview with Ken Burns. He told the story of the gentleman who cried on camera when he talked about his little sister dying all those years ago and how they went with him to the cemetery to visit her grave. It was heartbreaking to hear him talk about how affected this gentleman is decades after her death.

[texanwitch]

20. It sure was hard to watch.

The little sister they all wanted.

The dust killed her.

[Curmudgeoness]

22. Oh, I could not imagine how difficult it would have been

to be Ken Burns with that man. That had to have been a terrible time for that man as a child.

I agree that the people were incredible. I don't think I would have survived. You know how determined and strong they were just by watching what they went through. Sadly, I suppose that the people living there now have forgotten that they needed help from the government....even though it wasn't nearly enough from what I saw.

Is this where you live? If your family lived through this, you are from great stock....survivors.

[nutsnberries]

23. we watched it here

and learned so much from all of the personal stories. wow.

[AngryOldDem]

25. Yes, I watched it. It was excellent.

The true shame is that this has been a pretty much overlooked part of the Great Depression. You hear about the "Okies" and the dust storms, but that does not begin to cover the sheer magnitude of the suffering. It was eye-opening -- especially learning about how the California authorities harrassed those trying to resettle there.

Burns clearly pointed out the fact that, despite what Mitt and the Teabaggers believe, government **does** have a responsibility to help get people back on their feet, either by teaching them new methods of farming or creating "busy work" (i.e. WPA) for them to do. It all leads to self-sufficiency in the end. FDR understood that. Too bad some of our current leaders don't.

[Curmudgeoness]

41. And these were proud people who worked hard

all their lives. They NEEDED help. The last thing you could call them was lazy.

If you didn't know about the harrassment in California, there is a song I remember....and a line in it that shocked me the first time I heard it. "The police at the port of entry say you're 14,000 for the day."

[luv_mykatz]

26. I don't have a t.v., so can't watch the documentary.

However, I did see it mentioned online, and went to the web site, watched the film trailer, and looked at the photos and read the posted stories of survivors and descendants of survivors of the Dust Bowl years. Great information, and I hope as many people as possible watch it, or Tivo it during it's next broadcast times (which were like, 2 am on the Left coast).

I did read the book, "The Worst Hard Time", which is also on the Dust Bowl years, and is mentioned on the web site for the documentary.

There are many, many parallels to our current climate change challenges and dangers. There were many Dust Bowl deniers and government haters back then. Sad to say, some of them were just as scornful of the Soil Conservation Service scientists who were trying to help them back then. And there were also greed head land speculators and town promoters who tried very hard to discredit what the government was saying was the cause of the problems, as well as the solutions that were offered.

I am very glad this information is being broadcast in the documentary. I hope huge numbers of people see it, and that thoughtful discussions result.

The mid-west is mining the water in the Oglalla Aquifier. That is mostly fossil water, from the melting of the glaciers at the end of the Ice Age. It can't easily be replenished, and the ongoing drought forbodes very serious problems.

[eppur_se_muova]

29. Big rec for "Worst Hard Time" -- if you've read it, you don't much need to see the film.

Not meant as a slur on Mr. Burns' work, but the book is a righteously rewarding read unto itself. The author, Timothy Egan, appeared as a commentator in Burns' film many times.

One big difference: WHT focused on the people who stuck it out, not the ones who took off for CA. "Dust Bowl" told the story of the migrant "Okies" as well as the ones who stayed put. And the commentary on the New Deal is more prominent in DB.

The chapter on Bob Dole's injury and recovery in Cramer's "What It Takes" (WARNING: 1072 pp, don't start it if you don't mean it) paints an unforgettable picture of life in Kansas at that time. Dole was eventually sent home to KS to recuperate, at a time when people were still getting sick from all the dust in the air.

[Curmudgeoness]

42. I can be watched online.

Near the end of Episode 2, they discussed the Oglalla Aquifer and the problems with the dependency on it.....I think they said the water will only last another 20 years, and when it is gone, it is gone.

http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/dustbowl/watch-videos/#2304010308

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

49. That is what the one gentleman was saying--20 years.

[cynatnite]

28. This is probably one of the better documentaries out there, IMO...

It was compelling and very moving.

[SteveG]

30. Beautifully done program

I have a pretty good background in the period since the the period between 1865 and 1950 was my area of concentration when I was an Undergrad. I know most of the information, but wow, the narrative and the footage was awesome.

[GoCubsGo]

31. Yes One of the best documentaries on the subject I have seen.

It's the high-quality stuff I have come to expect from Ken Burns. I HIGHLY recommend catching a re-run of it, if you missed it. I'm sure it will be played again several times over the next week or two.

[kurtzapril4]

33. And the Dust Bowl still has repercussions...

Okie is still used as a put down in some places out West. My sister lives in the San Joaquin valley in CA. She's bigoted, as are many of her friends. Any Caucasion person who is labeled poor is an "Okie," just like any poor African Amerian is called the n-word.

The last time she called someone an Okie around me I said, "Look, you were born in KY and you live in a trailer, in a trailer park. You don't have your own teeth. That's comedy gold right there for some people, so stop it."

[Curmudgeoness]

43. That IS comedy gold!

You made me laugh, but you are so right. Makes you wonder......I guess that everyone needs someone to be lower than they are.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

44. Yeah, just ask Elizabeth Warren.

She graduated from NW Classen High in Oklahoma City. She said they can't decide to smear her as an Oklahoma hick or an elite Harvard law school professor.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

48. If you're a RWer you don't have to choose! Logic be damned!

[benld74]

34. Yes. Amazing. The one,,,

comment by a 'rich' individual in Texas was spot on for today as well. The individual called what the government was doing 'An act of Socialism that doesn't belong in America'

[Mr.Bill]

35. Growing up in California in the 60s

I met many people who migrated west during the dustbowl. Some of the finest people I've ever met. Strong sense of family and a good work ethic.

[Flaxbee]

37. Caught part of it yesterday; would really like to see all of it

Excellent. Though it does make you wonder how humans have survived this long... we seem to be so destructive and stubborn...

[luv_mykatz]

52. I got to watch it after all.

Some kind person posted a link, and I was able to watch it online!

A HUGE thank you, to whomever it was who posted the link.

I cried for a lot of it, especially the last half hour, or so.

I also posted a link on my Facebook page, encouraging all of my friends to watch it.

Again, thank you for the link.

[luv_mykatz]

53. Silly me, I should have re-read all of the posts before posting my last reply.

Thank you, Curmudgeoness. You are the person who posted the link which allowed me to watch the documentary online.

And, you are the person who started the thread. I saw information which told me that the Dust Bowl doc would be broadcast on PBS, but I don't have a t.v., so I did not think I would get to watch it. Thanks to you, I did get to watch it.

Very powerful stuff. There was a segment on the irrigation in which someone commented that the same mistakes were being made, in the same place all over again. They were referring to people not respecting that the Plains is dry land, and NOT meant for farming. "Wrong side up" is what the cattle herders said, when the sod was plowed up, removing the deep-rooted buffalo grass, and replacing that sod with wheat.

Basically, the immigrants tried to impose a form of agriculture on the Plains which wasn't suited to the amount of available rainfall, bouts of severe weather, and drought which the Plains are subject to. The kind of agriculture they tried to impose is better suited to Western Europe, which has much more rainfall than the Plains.

The Plains environment was North America's savannah, with huge roaming herds of antelope, deer, and buffalo. Most of the stuff I've read said that the Plains was able to be stable environmentally precisely because none of it was fenced, and both the animal herds and the people who lived there moved around, instead of staying in one place.

What is scary, is that tapping the water in the Oglalla aquifer made it possible to impose a kind of farming which is not suited to the Plains' environmental realities for the long term. What will happen to all those folks when they run out of water?

One of the points made by the documentary was that the Dust Bowl could happen again. Maybe not as bad, because of the improvements of farming techniques, but still, when the water in the aquifer is gone, what then? That is fossil water and can't be replaced within our lifetimes, or for many lifetimes.
I am tempted to paraphrase Aldo Leopold, who pointed out that is does no good to make improvements in the pump when the problem is that the well (read: resources) is going dry.

Still, I am extremely glad that Ken Burns made this documentary, and I hope as many people as possible see it, and talk it up with their friends. We need to have lots of thoughtful discussion about climate change, and the possible social problems and dislocations it could cause.

I also kept wondering what the local Native Tribes would have said, if they could've been interviewed for the doc? Perhaps 're-wilding' the Plains is not such a far fetched idea after all. But it would have to be done in a way that would truly support the folks who live there now.

[Curmudgeoness]

55. I was glad to find the link and share it.

I had missed the first part, so I watched it again. I sickens me when I hear the wealthy, then and today, accusing the poor or those who have had misfortune of being lazy and shiftless. I cannot imagine how hard these people worked to try to eke a living, or just survive, during these times.

And you are right, this apparently will happen again as the Oglalla aquifer is drained. The only thing that I can hope for this time is that they will be prepared. If we are forewarned about the water dwidling, they are too. But how do we relocate the large number of people who live there? I don't know how that can happen. What they need to do right now is start moving toward other jobs and ways to make a living.

I am glad that you were able to watch it, and were moved by it. So was I.

[Little Star]

54. I have it taped on my DVR ready to watch sometime this long weekend..

I am really looking forward to it. Love Ken Burns and PBS. Documentaries rock!!!

[Curmudgeoness]

56. This one will tear your heart out.

But it is worth every minute.

[Little Star]

57. I can't wait to see it but I have to wait until my daughter....

has time to come to my place and watch it. I promised. She didn't tape it and really wants to see it. I told her sometime this weekend or I'm watching without her, lol.

Hope you had a nice Thanksgiving. Mine was nice, thank heavens for my kids & grandkids.

[Curmudgeoness]

58. I will be good to have someone to discuss it with

so I hope your daughter makes it.

I had a nice Thanksgiving.....thank heavens I have no kids and grandkids. I had a quiet day that is just too rare these days. Slept in late, cooked a stuffed chicken, did a lot of reading, and now I have settled down to see what my DU family is doing.

A good day.