But I liked it when I could get it. To hell with the snobs. it was good. It did what it was supposed to do, and it was more environmentally friendly than the corked stuff...

Xolodno

(6,395 posts)

21. It is more environmentally friendly.

Reply to Aristus (Reply #20)

Sat Apr 25, 2020, 01:41 AM

Apr 2020

It reminds me when we went to Napa on vacation, we couldn't afford to buy much due to the cost. But what got me, we went to one boutique "known" winery....their cheapest wine was around $70...the price of the most expensive wine in the wine club we subscribe to in Los Olivos. Difference, wine club was liquid heaven....the snobbish brand name, well I imagine that's what Thunderbird tastes like.

Its why I buy Charles Shaw Sauvigion Blanc at Trader Joe's, Sauvigion Blanc is always good, cheap or expensive, its one of those you have to work hard to make it taste bad.

Aristus

(66,388 posts)

23. Viticulture has become so advanced that there's actually little difference between

Reply to Xolodno (Reply #21)

Sat Apr 25, 2020, 01:46 AM

Apr 2020

the very good vintages and the poor ones.

I usually only pay $10-16 a bottle, and usually get great stuff.

I remember my father once brought back a bottle from France. Set him back a pretty penny. We cracked it, and it smelled like soil; like loam. it had to breath for thirty minutes before it was anywhere near drinkable.

Xolodno

(6,395 posts)

27. To be fair....

Reply to Aristus (Reply #23)

Sat Apr 25, 2020, 02:06 AM

Apr 2020

...California, Oregon, etc. wines are actively managed. Making sure they get just the right amount of water, pruning, etc. France was slow on the uptake and making wines purely by what the weather brought and relying heavily by the name value (saw a documentary on the conflict of those embracing modern techniques vs. those insisting doing it the old way..and it got violent at times). So, hence, the good year vs. the bad year.

But after getting their asses handed to them from not just California, but South Africa, Australia, Argentina, Mexico, etc. The old school ways are vanishing. But maybe its too little too late. Spain, Italy and even Germany are ahead in the game in the region. French winemakers response has been trying to sue for name recognition, they won it on Champagne but lost when it came to Chardonnay..so bad they haven't bothered much since. They no longer have a monopoly on what is "good wine".

Aristus

(66,388 posts)

28. One of the pitfalls of being conservative.

Reply to Xolodno (Reply #27)

Sat Apr 25, 2020, 02:09 AM

Apr 2020

One can't recognize when change is a good thing...

Xolodno

(6,395 posts)

29. Indeed.

Reply to Aristus (Reply #28)

Sat Apr 25, 2020, 02:39 AM

Apr 2020

France had most of the ideal weather when growing wine...and the economics over time help them solidify their position. Italy didn't unify until much later, Spain was under constant political unrest and the market in the USA was less for wines and more for harder alcohols and on the softer side, beer (then of course, prohibition). Even during WW2, the France wine regions weren't heavily affected.

Good wines were being developed post WW2 in California and Mexico at the same time.

There wasn't much promotion for Mexico (long story), but word about California started to reach out internationally...and eventually challenged. And that opened the whole market up.

With that said, the baguettes, macaroons and other baked goods in France still kick the USA's ass. I can't wait for the opportunity to return for that, the wine...yeah, not so much.