The DU Lounge
Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsAnyone here have any luck with a foreign language learning program?
I'm looking at Babbel or Rosetta Stone, but I don't have a ton of experience beyond high school Spanish 30 years ago, and am open to suggestions. And while Spanish seems the most practical, I'd certainly consider an easier language to learn. The only reason I'm considering doing this is for personal growth, so I literally have no constraints.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)Duolingo used to be pretty good generally speaking, but it changed and ran off the rails. I don't care for it anymore. Babble says they are free, teach three phrases then ask for money. I dont mind paying but I don't like traps. I've tried out two other programs in the last week with similar not so happy results. I'm still looking. I haven't tried Rosetta Stone.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,714 posts)If you want an easier language than Spanish, try Swedish or Norwegian. They are much more closely related to English, especially with respect to grammar and word order.
Kaleva
(36,307 posts)Spanish would most likely be far more practical to learn though.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,714 posts)Kaleva
(36,307 posts)Norwegian being at the top doesn't mean it's the easiest of the group. It means that its one of the easiest to learn and has the fewest number of native speakers. Spanish is at the bottom of the pyramid because it has the greatest number of native speakers in that group of languages.
"Category I: 23-24 weeks (575-600 hours)
Languages closely related to English
Afrikaans
Danish
Dutch
French
Italian Norwegian
Portuguese
Romanian
Spanish
Swedish"
https://www.atlasandboots.com/foreign-service-institute-language-difficulty/
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,714 posts)Kaleva
(36,307 posts)defacto7
(13,485 posts)is learning to speak it correctly. I lived in Amsterdam off and on over some years.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,714 posts)Reading is easiest, then understanding when it's spoken (as long as they don't talk too fast), but assembling the right words in the right order in your head and then speaking them correctly is harder.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)The hardest part was getting over the feeling that I was going to spit on someone. Those mid-guttural "ch" sounds like gracht or schans or like the Amsterdam airport Schiphol ( ˈsxɪp ɦ ɔl).
Hotler
(11,425 posts)madaboutharry
(40,212 posts)I chose Norwegian, for no particular reason other than my own personal interest. It was one of those things where I thought "why not!" The program is very approachable, not in the least bit intimidating. The method they use is working for me. They have recently changed the lesson plans and I like it even more. I would recommend giving Babbel a try, you can always cancel if you are not happy.
If you decide on Babbel, use Chrome as your browser because of the voice recognition part of the program.
no_hypocrisy
(46,116 posts)learned to speak it without an American accent.
LeftInTX
(25,351 posts)Don't attempt it!
I've been trying for 50 years!!! I can't learn the alphabet!!!
And DU can't seem to copy it correctly..LOL
Last word is: հայերեն
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)I can read in a few alphabets, but not this one!
LeftInTX
(25,351 posts)The Armenian alphabet is from 405 AD. (newcomer)
However, there are similarities with ancient middle eastern scripts.
I can't read Armenian. You have to rote memorize it!!! There are 36 letters!!! The capitals are very different from lower case.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,714 posts)DFW
(54,393 posts)Armenian
FakeNoose
(32,639 posts)The best way to learn conversational language is to have actual conversations. Someone who is patient, resourceful, and willing to help would be ideal. You can listen to tapes and repeat what you hear, but that only helps you memorize certain phrases or sentences, not to know how or when to use them. You can read foreign words and phrases in a book and say them out loud to yourself, but your pronunciation and usage will be incorrect.
If you don't have a good friend who can help with this, then I recommend taking Community College or continuing education classes that might be not-for-credit and less expensive. After several semesters of adult education with a good teacher (in my case German classes) I was able to pick up enough to continue on my own, teaching myself by reading and translating. I'll never be proficient in German but at least I can understand general conversations and make myself understood.
Good luck!
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,714 posts)what's going on sometimes. For a couple of years I've been taking a Norwegian class that involves reading and discussing books, and sometimes I feel like a dog watching television. But although I get kind of tongue-tied when I try to say something (and occasionally throw in a German word inadvertently because that's the first language I learned), I am getting to the point where I read the assignments (slowly) without having to look up everything, and I can understand most of what the instructor says. The other thing that's helpful is watching movies and tv shows in the language you're studying; that way you get a better sense of what it sounds like. Some Netflix movies have the closed caption feature in that language, which helps even more.
FakeNoose
(32,639 posts)About 25 years ago I joined a German folk singing group, it's sort of like a glee club except that we sing old traditional German folksongs in 3 and 4-part harmony. And wouldn't you know it, several of the longtime members are German immigrants who came to Pittsburgh after WWII. Many of these people have become good friends, and they are patient with my attempts to hold conversations in German even though their English is very good. It gives me a great opportunity to learn colloquial German that isn't normally taught in class. I did take classes as I stated in my previous post, but I wanted to continue beyond the classroom.
I applaud your interest in Norwegian, and I'd think it would be much harder to find Norwegian speaking Americans so it's lucky that you found your book group.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,714 posts)There are a lot of them around here - the classes are sponsored by a Lutheran church that even conducts Sunday services in Norwegian. Lots of Swedes and Finns, too; I know a person who belongs to a group that's reading the entire Harry Potter series in Swedish, and there's also an active Finnish conversation group. And there's a very active German organization that holds classes and other German-speaking events. It really does help to have people you can actually use the language with. The German folk-singing group sounds like a blast!
TlalocW
(15,383 posts)To see what it was like. I've also played with it for German and Italian. It's very easy to work with on your phone, and I like the parts where you have to speak - either repeating a sentence or replying with a correct answer. The vocabulary is good as well.
What I don't like, and maybe I find this frustrating because learning in a classroom is different, it doesn't explain the different verb conjugations but expects you to pick them up from going through the exercises. I think this is a big mistake. I think it would be useful to have something at the beginning of using the past tense, for example, that tells you, "Here are the most common ways to make the preterite forms of verbs, but we'll be looking at certain examples that don't follow these rules." Especially in Spanish because there are technically two kinds of past tense, each one used in certain situations.
TlalocW
Arazi
(6,829 posts)Either in country or in the classroom
mucifer
(23,545 posts)local tv news in English then in Spanish. No it's not conversational. But, it helps.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,714 posts)The Spanish-language soap operas are a hoot, and you really don't have to know much Spanish in order to figure out what's going on.
PennyK
(2,302 posts)It seems to cover lots of subjects, not just language. He's having a ball with it.
Foolacious
(497 posts)With Spanish, you have a huge number of communities and speakers where it is spoken, and lots of other resources besides, so you'd have an opportunity to practice. So it's #1 for practicality and among the technically easiest languages for English speakers to learn.
With Norwegian, Dutch, and Swedish (described as "easiest" in some of those lists others have linked to), you have more cognates for short everyday words than Spanish, but fewer cognates among long, "adult-vocabulary" words. You have some aspects of grammar that seem more familiar than Spanish, but others that are less so. Norwegian also has tones (to a limited degree), and all three are less phonetic in their writing than Spanish. One more thing about Dutch (in my experience): most Dutch speak quite good English and are baffled that anyone would want to learn their language, so they tend not to understand foreign accents at all and tend to get impatient with beginners. "Why are you trying to speak Dutch -- and so badly -- when I speak your language perfectly?!" Whereas with Spanish (and Portuguese, for that matter), folks are generally delighted that you are trying, and they are very patient. This does have an impact on the difficulty of the learning process.
If you are learning totally on your own, try Esperanto. Very very easy. Or choose something more for how much you like it... enjoying your studies will make them easier.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,714 posts)For example: If I say "Katten min liker meg," it's pretty easy to figure out that I'm saying my cat likes me. But if I want to use some "adult vocabulary words" and say "My cat is causing a ridiculous disturbance," it's "Katten min forårsaker en latterlig forstyrrelse," which will require looking up. Conjugating verbs is a no-brainer, though, because the form doesn't change depending on the person. So I guess it depends on what kind of easy you prefer.
RobinA
(9,893 posts)Duolingo to learn French and felt that I was making some half decent progress until Christmas came along and my motivation fell off a cliff. And I say this as someone whose first foreign language experience was German and who is NOT a good second language learner at all.
Because the German (at which I was fairly bad despite three years in high school and two years in college) kept pushing its way through I decided to stop fighting it and do some German on Duolingo, which I am working on now. Its a relief to be back where I can pronounce (relatively) and spell again. Im planning a trip to Germany in the next couple years and Im hoping to get to where I can at least limp along.
LeftInTX
(25,351 posts)And there are also less sounds than English. It has less intonation, so I struggle with it. It's easier to read than understand. (Especially the stuff on the news!!)
On the news, I can make out "Hoy es lunes" and it's all uphill from there!
dawg day
(7,947 posts)Many different languages, and it's all about conversation. Each lesson is about 15 minutes long. I'm learning Italian. I tried Babel and Duolingo, but this Coffee Break Italian is working. And the podcasts lessons are free.
3catwoman3
(23,997 posts)...they told me they were thinking about getting a second hand Rosetta Stone to brush up on the Spanish they had studied in high school. Briefly I say, because I mistakenly thought they were going to do this to enhance their job marketability.
Boy, was I wrong. They wanted to speak better Spanish so they could communicate with locals and go run with the bulls in Pamplona!
I told them they were not allowed to do that while I was still alive so I did not have to worry about them being gored to death.
JesterCS
(1,827 posts)Took two years in hs. Loved it
DFW
(54,393 posts)1.) I married a German woman. We have always spoken German together, and we now live in Germany.
2.) I lived in Spain, in a part where "Spanish," really Castilian, is not the prevalent language. So when people there DID speak Spanish, they spoke it clearly and distinctly, since it was everyone's second language.
3.) Take a course in person where your teacher speaks ONLY in the language you are trying to learn. I visited Sweden when I was 18, and understood nothing. but once explained, it is very simple. One year later, after a year of 3 hours of Swedish class a week, I returned to Sweden, and never had to use English any more.
Decide which language would most enrich you life, having frequent contact with native speakers. Then immerse yourself in it as best you can. The above three have the added advantage that many films are made in those languages, and you can copies of them to watch over and over until you don't need the subtitles any more.
OnDoutside
(19,957 posts)I spent 2 years of my working life in France and I still can't hold a conversation in French. If they speak slowly, I can pretty much understand but as soon as they feel I understand, they speed up and I'm lost !
The one time I was very comfortable was after 3 bottles of champagne ! We had just installed software at a VW garage in Reims, and were invited to the grand opening where the owners had 400 bottles in a chiller truck ! I was never so fluent/fluid !
My son has just started secondary school and the languages for first year are, apart from English and Irish, are French, German and Latin. He'll probably drop Latin next year but he has my sister's help for German, as she is fluent, and my neighbour's daughter is similarly fluent in French. I'm hoping that will give him the vital conversational aspect
DFW
(54,393 posts)My younger daughter had started with French in high school, since France is right next door to us. She spent the last two years of high school halfway around the world in Hawaii. They offered Hawaiian as a language course, but she wisely stuck with French. But just by being there, she absorbed more than she realized. After the first year, we were all in a car during summer vacation when a song in Hawaiian came on the radio. She immediately started translating it for us. Amazed, I said I thought she hadnt learned Hawaiian. She said, as if it should have been obvious, « well yeah, but ANYBODY understands THAT much! » Yeah, anybody except her dumb Haole parents!
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)But as to your last para, I have to confess that even when I watch films/TV programs in English, I often prefer subtitles because I sometimes miss parts of the dialogue.
That may be because I am older than I once was or because the speakers don't enunciate clearly enough.
Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #33)
geralmar This message was self-deleted by its author.
sakabatou
(42,152 posts)Dunno what he thought about it
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)interesting thread!
DFW
(54,393 posts)And I say that as one who DID learn most of the so-called « easy » languages.
Bleacher Creature
(11,257 posts)It helps to be part of an online community that values diversity and knowledge.
mainer
(12,022 posts)I learned enough Italian to travel around Italy.
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)gives you the most uses of the word through examples that I have found, lots more than the standard dictionaries.
You can usually take a trial run of a language program. Rosetta gets great reviews. Pretty pricey. At Yabla online you can try language videos without subscribing. Offers transcripts, pause and rewind, and different speeds. Categorizes videos by level and genre. About 10 dollars per month. Cancel anytime.
YouTube has every type of language lessongrammar, conversation, learning through film clips, slang. Also can find some full length films, documentaries and regular movies, with subtitles in English or in the preferred language. I got a kick watching Lifetime channel movies in French. I have to watch at 75 percent speed.
Cairycat
(1,706 posts)but my husband and I refreshed our college German this spring with the YouTube series, "Easy German". There are a number of other languages offered too. It's mostly a "man on the street" interview where passersby are asked a question. They do also have grammar videos. It was great for learning more colloquial and contemporary language, so it really helped when we went to Berlin this summer.
Xolodno
(6,395 posts)Pro;
1. Like how it kind of "immerses" you.
2. Uses everyday words.
Con;
1. No English translation. At times I found my self guessing at what a word met. Sometimes I was so unsure, I went to Google Translate.
2. The "writing" portion. You'll get extremely close to being correct, but it still knocks you as wrong and keeps you on that problem until you get it correct unless you advance it. Which then dings you for the whole problem. So your getting 90% and above on all the lessons. But 30% below on the writing. Think it should give you credit for how close you get after a couple of tries and move on, but show you where you messed up. Spelling can be subjective.
3. I bought the disk set a long time ago, but if I want to continue practicing, I have to purchase their online lessons. No Thanks. Think I'll buy a classic book in the foreign language along with the English version and work with that.
4. Grammar rules are never explained, again you are guessing.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,714 posts)Maybe it's just the way my tiny brain works or the way I learned languages when I was younger, but I need to know the grammar rules in order for the language to make sense to me. Otherwise it seems like just a bunch of random words strung together.