Well, I Saw Officially Crazy A Half Hour Ago

[ProfessorGAC]

Left work to go home and walk doggie. About half way home, starts raining (again!).

It's a 4 lane divided highway, so even though it's not limited access, it's normal highway speed. (Limit is 55)

So, i'm doing just about that and someone who didn't want to be in the rain went by.

Guy was doing a hundred. ON A MOTORCYCLE! IN THE RAIN ON WET PAVEMENT!

The first thing that popped into my head was "He's Nuts".

[unblock]

1. yeah well there's a guy around here who does wheelies in traffic at highway speeds. no helmet.

i've never seen him do it in the rain, but still....


of course, if motorcyclists really cared about their own safety, they wouldn't be motorcyclists....

[ProfessorGAC]

2. Good Point

I saw the wheelie thing once on I-57 just south of I-80. And, the guy was standing on the seat.

Yep, a standing wheelie on the interstate at around 3 in the afternoon.

At least the sun was shining.

[flamin lib]

3. Well now I take exception to that!

I'm 70 years old, ride a mid-sized touring bike that's a bright color, have taken the motorcycle safety course and ride quite conservatively. Wear a helmet and armor jacket.

Statistically I'm as safe as the regular 4 wheeler.

My bike will accelerate quicker, stop in 3/4 the distance of a car and at 600 pounds ( me included) can change lanes instantly. I also understand that all that advantage disappears with the first raindrop.

We're not all nutz . . .

[unblock]

4. motorcycles are not just as safe:

yes, i have friends and coworkers who ride and they are very careful, avoid rain like the plague, etc.

but statistically, no, you can't say they're just as safe as cars, see below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_safety

According to the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), in 2006, 13.10 cars out of 100,000 ended up in fatal crashes. The rate for motorcycles is 72.34 per 100,000 registered motorcycles.[2] Motorcycles also have a higher fatality rate per unit of distance traveled when compared with automobiles. Per vehicle mile traveled, motorcyclists' risk of a fatal crash is 35 times greater than a passenger car.[2] In 2004, figures from the UK Department for Transport indicated that motorcycles have 16 times the rate of serious injuries compared to cars.[3]

A national study by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATS) found that:

Motorcycle rider death rates increased among all rider age groups between 1998 and 2000
Motorcycle rider deaths were nearly 30 times more than drivers of other vehicles
Motorcycle riders aged below 40 are 36 times more likely to be killed than other vehicle operators of the same age.
Motorcycle riders aged 40 years and over are around 20 times more likely to be killed than other drivers of that same age.[4

[flamin lib]

8. I didn't say motorcycles as a class, I said *I* am as safe as the average 4 wheeler.

The stats you cite are for ALL motorcycles all ages. Breaking down the accident and injury rate by age, sex, bike type, protective gear worn and safety instructions people like me are no more likely to be seriously injured than the average car driver.

The most at risk category is under 26, female, sport bike, little or no protective gear and without benefit of the motorcycle safety course. Next category is the same but male. Add in that the under 30 age group makes up the largest portion of motorcyclists and these account for a large majority of motorcycle injuries.

The number one cause of motorcycle accidents (50%) is illegal left hand turn by an auto approaching the motorcycle, 25% are caused by "motorcycle leaving the roadway" or similar collusion with stationary objects and the remaining is a mixed bag including motorcycle failing to yield right of way. The number one reason cited for a car causing an accident is "I didn't see him." Many car drivers do not mentally make the connection that a motorcycle equals a vehicle, they see the bike but it just doesn't register as an obstruction. If, like me, you assume that every opportunity for a car to hurt you will automatically take place and drive accordingly you can avoid 50% of possible accidents and then age and maturity take care of damn near all the rest.

Behaviors like you cited; wheelies at speed, excessive speed, lane splitting, lack of protective gear and exceeding driving skill skews the statistics. Sadly, you can't even call these people organ donors because a collusion involving a bare human body at highway speeds often doesn't leave any organs intact.

The stats you cite are absolutely correct. I would not be surprised to find that the death rates have continued to rise because when fuel costs go up more people take up biking for the first time and new riders with less than a year experience are most at risk in all categories.

I realize that I'm not charmed and that there are circumstances over which I have no control. So how do I minimize my risk? I am acutely aware of all vehicles entering and leaving the roadway and assume that they do not see me so I stay prepared to shorten the .2 second reaction time. I assume every intersection has a left turn waiting to nail me. I watch parked cars at curbside and look for those with people in them; a suddenly opened car door is something to be avoided. When on the highway I position myself such that no vehicle can change into my lane and contact my bike. That is sometimes very difficult. When overtaking a vehicle I do so with all possible speed to minimize my time in the blind spot. I maintain a 2 second cushion between myself and vehicles both in front of and behind me. That is also difficult to do. At stops I park the bike in the far right side of the lane and keep an eye on the rear view mirror to avoid becoming the filler in a sheet metal sandwich. Finally I assume that if there is something stupid that anyone can do they will do it.

It may sound like my style of riding is a bore and chore but it's just habit, muscle memory and after all these years as automatic as putting on the helmet. I enjoy motorcycling because the distance in between is as important as any destination and enjoy the experience of the trip as much as the arrival. It is, for me, one of small pleasures in life and at my age both pleasures and life are in short supply.

[unblock]

9. fair point, i don't have the statistics to dig in that deeply.

intuitively, i agree that the ones courting disaster are surely making up the lion's share of the fatalities. i can't easily quantify the difference, but i'll take your word for it.

and the "bore and chore" you describe is just more "defensive driving" that we're all supposed to routinely practice behind the wheel anyway.

[flamin lib]

14. Thanks.

My stats are from memory of the only comprehensive study of motorcycle accidents that I know of. Appropriately named The Hurt Report (for the researcher who did it). The 50% and 25% burned into my brain.

I started riding again after a 40 year break. The week I bought my bike there were 5 motorcycle fatalities in the DFW metroplex.

A 22 year old and his girlfriend died when he couldn't make the sweeping curve on a freeway overpass. Sport bike contacted the concrete side barrier, climbed over it and passengers fell onto the freeway below.

While riding with a club on loop 820 in Ft Worth one member snapped the throttle open and zoomed ahead of the group. Another followed. When the first rider closed the throttle without breaking to notify his companion he was slowing was rear ended at speed resulting in the death of both.

A 70 year old riding a fully equipped cruiser on loop 635 in Dallas was clipped when a young woman changed lanes causing him to fall in front of a semi. That is when I determined to NEVER place my bike in a position such that a car changing lanes could contact it.

Every one of these "accidents" could and should have been avoided. I believe most biker accidents are caused by stupidity or testorone poisoning and should be labeled negligent instead of accident.

That said, we're not all nuts . . .

[yonder]

11. +1. well said.

[Raster]

7. What do you call a motocyclist without a helmet?

Organ donor.

[A HERETIC I AM]

12. People don't ride motorcycles because they are the safest vehicles on the road

They ride them because they are the most fun vehicles on the road.

Ditto high performance cars.

People don't buy something that can do 0 to sixty in 4 and a half seconds because they're practical commuters. They buy them because they're a blast to drive!

[unblock]

13. i get it, and they're entitled to live life as they see fit.

just noting that if safety was really high up on their list, they probably wouldn't be riding motorcycles.

they can prioritize fun over safety if they want, i'm fine with that.

but i reserve the right to think of them (motorcyclists who do wheelies in traffic, etc.) as stupid as hell, that's my right

[A HERETIC I AM]

17. I don't argue your point, honestly.

As was pointed out by others who have ridden for years, there is a HUGE difference between responsible riding and being a total asshole. See my post and the video below.

[flamin lib]

15. Yes, but they don't have the right to put others at risk.

A man in Ft Worth just this week did a head on at over 100. A sport bike and rider weigh in at just under 800 lbs. The kinetic energy of 800 lbs at that speed totaled the car he hit and the driver is in critical condition.

Like they say, it's all fun until . . .

[A HERETIC I AM]

16. Oh, I agree absolutely!

I drive a truck for a living and I have yet to run across one of these groups, but this kind of bullshit would SERIOUSLY piss me off;

For no other reason than they CAN.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

21. Almost every rider I've seen and those I know personally...

...is exceptionally safe. There will always be those, however, who demonstrate that evolution, while still working, isn't immediately effective.

[MuseRider]

5. Yes they are crazy.

I have taken care of my share of them in the ER and/or the ICU. Trauma was my thing and nobody can fullfill that like a guy who went down in front of a Semi.

People should be able to ride motorcycles but I have no idea why they do it with cars around. I lost a very good friend not long ago who felt like he did not need a helmet in his neighborhood. Pavement was wet, car almost missed a turn so tried to take it anyway and he laid his bike over to avoid the car but did not manage to miss the curb his head slammed into.

I avoid being around them. I could never live with myself if something happened and they (even if they were being nuts) being so vunerable, were severely hurt or killed by my car. I also do not live in a big city, or even in a city so most of the time I can avoid them.

To clarify, I do not mean everyone who rides a motorcycle. I mean those who drive like the OP was talking about.

[Doreen]

6. There are some stupid people out there with motorcycles.

It is sad that they do not care that they are putting other peoples lives in danger. My ex learned in his motorcycle safety class however that it is not "if" you get into an accident it is "when" no matter how faithful you are in doing everything properly. My ex did everything he was supposed to including always wearing the proper attire when some idiot pulled an illegal u-turn in front of him. Do not get me wrong I do not discourage motorcycles that is freedom of choice and even I would ride on one if I was able.

[yonder]

10. I'm 64 and have been riding for 50 years.

In my 20's, I was reasonably successful racing them too. (The track is much safer). Though no fault of my own, I've been hit by cars 3 times, ran off the road many other times, and have had countless close calls all because the car driver didn't see me or chose not to pay attention.

Yes, bikes are smaller, more nimble, stop faster and are usually quicker and faster than cars. That all goes away when you get hit or otherwise go down. A comprehensive skill set, a good helmet and proper attire are essential along with understanding, through education and experience, of just what a rider is facing out there. Lacking any one of these, increases your chances of not being able to stand back up and ride away.

This will likely be the last season I ride, on the street anyway. Not necessarily because of slower reflexes and an eye that's trying to go bad. It's because of cell phones, texting and goofing around with anything else in the cabin, taking away the car drivers' attention from where it belongs, which is on the road and to those around them. In my opinion, that lack of attention has gotten worse in the last 10-15 years.

So when you see those crotch-rocketing numbskulls blast past you on one wheel, just try to stay out of their way. You can take some pleasure in that they have no idea their stupidity, not skill, is on display. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. With luck, they might figure it out someday or learn to take it to the track. If not, well there goes another donor cyclist. Smile and give the idiot a wave as they go by.

[ProfessorGAC]

18. Hey, Yonder!

I never said all 2 wheelers were crazy.
Just the lunatic I saw today
I had 3
The biggest was a 650 Ascot
But, when MS took my left eye, and I had a ragtop anyway, that was enough
But, like you, I rode the side roads didn't over do things
But, 100 mph in the rain?
That's a totally different thing

[yonder]

19. Nope, my post wasn't directed at your OP

Rather, careless riding (and driving) in general where, against a car, the motorcycle will always lose. I agree, 100 mph on a rainy highway is nuts - too many variables, but on a nice road course and with the right stuff it can be fun.

I guess my point is if a person likes fast, no matter what you're driving/riding, be responsible and take it to the track. Hone the skills there, along with other like-minded folks. That person won't look like an idiot, they'll be better for it and the average public road user will stay safer too.

Gawd, I sound just like my dad.



If I'm remembering right, that Ascot was a nice, torquey v-twin, wasn't it?

[ProfessorGAC]

20. Yeah

It had the oval pistons, as i recall. I bought it used from a guy who, as a hobby, took it completely apart and rebuilt it.

Pretty cheap too.

Only problem was i made arrangements to buy it and pick it up in April, and then that day as the sun was going down it got to about 45 degrees. Had to ride the bike home about 30 miles in 40 something temps. My wife took me there in the car, so a couple times i had to stop, pull over and go sit in the car to warm up a bit.

Other than that, it was a good buy and decent bike.

After i went blind in my left eye, i said enough. Sold it to a guy at work for his kid. Had it 4 years and got 125 less than i paid for it.