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red dog 1

(27,820 posts)
Mon Jun 11, 2018, 06:38 PM Jun 2018

Harlan Ellison did not like Frank Sinatra, and the feeling was mutual.

In a career spanning more than 40 years, Harlan Ellison has won more awards for the 75 books he has written or edited, the more than 1,700 short stories, the numerous essays, articles and newspaper columns, the two dozen teleplays, and the twelve motion pictures he has created, than any other living fantasy writer.
He has won the Hugo Award eight times.
The Nebula Award three times.
The Bram Stoker Award, presented by the Horror Writers Association, six times,
He is also the only author in Hollywood ever to win the Writer's Guild of America Award for Most Outstanding Teleplay (solo work) four times.

The Washington Post called him "one of the great living American short story writers."

The Los Angeles Times said:
"It's long past time for Harlan Ellison to be awarded the title, 20th Century Lewis Carroll."

His most well-known works include "I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream" and "A Boy and His Dog," which was made into the 1975 film of the same name starring Don Johnson.

A lifelong Democrat and progressive activist, Ellison participated in the Selma to Montgomery, Alabama marches, led by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

In 1966, in an article Esquire Magazine would later name as the best magazine piece ever written, the journalist Gay Talese wrote about the goings-on around the enigmatic Frank Sinatra.
The article, titled "Frank Sinatra Has a Cold," includes a description of a clash between the young Harlan Ellison and Frank Sinatra, when the crooner took exception to Ellison's boots during a billiards game.



From the Esquire article by Gay Talese titled: "Frank Sinatra Has a Cold"
It took place in the billiards room of a private club in Beverly Hills.

The room clacked with the sound of billiard balls..There were about a dozen spectators in the room, many of them were young men who were watching Leo Durocher shoot against two other aspiring hustlers who were not very good.
This private drinking club has among it's membership many actors, directors, writers, models, nearly all of them a good deal younger than Sinatra or Durocher and much more casual in the way they dress for the evening.
It was obvious from the way Sinatra looked at these people in the poolroom that they were not his style, but he leaned back against a high stool that was against the wall, holding his drink in his right hand, and said nothing..just watched Durocher slam the billiard balls back and forth.
The younger men in the room, accustomed to seeing Sinatra at this club, treated him without deference, although they said nothing offensive.
They were a cool young group, very California-cool and casual, and one of the coolest seemed to be a little guy, very quick of movement, who had a sharp profile, pale blue eyes, blondish hair, and squared eyeglasses.
He wore a pair of brown corduroy slacks, a green shaggy-dog Shetland sweater, a tan suede jacket, and Game Warden boots, for which he had recently paid $60.

Frank Sinatra, leaning against the stool, sniffling a bit from his cold, could not take his eyes off the Game Warden boots.
Once, after gazing at them for a few moments, he turned away, but now he was focused on them again.
The owner of the boots, who was just standing in them, watching the pool game, was named Harlan Ellison, a writer who had just completed work on a screenplay, "The Oscar."

Frank Sinatra could not contain himself.

"Hey," he yelled in his slightly harsh voice that still had a sharp, soft edge.
"Those Italian boots?"

"No," Ellison said.

"Spanish?"

"No."

"Are they English boots?"

"Look, I donno, man," Ellison shot back, frowning at Sinatra, then turning away again.

Now the poolroom was suddenly silent...Leo Durocher, who had been poised behind his cue stick and was bent low just froze in that position...Nobody moved...Then Sinatra moved away from the stool and walked with that slow, arrogant swagger of his toward Ellison, the hard tap of Sinatra's shoes the only noise in the room...Then, looking down at Ellison with a slightly raised eyebrow and a tricky little smile, Sinatra asked: "You expecting a storm?"

Harlan Ellison moved a step to the side.."Look, is there any reason why you're talking to me?"

"I don't like the way you're dressed," Sinatra said.

"Hate to shake you up," Ellison said, "but I dress to suit myself."

Now there was some rumbling in the room, and somebody said, "Com'on, Harlan, lets get out of here," and Leo Durocher made his pool shot and said, "Yeah, com'on."

But Ellison stood his ground.

Sinatra said, "What do you do?"

"I'm a plumber," Ellison said.

"No, no, he's not," another young man quickly yelled from across the table. "He wrote 'The Oscar'"

"Oh, Yeah," Sinatra said, "Well I've seen it, and it's a piece of crap."

"That's strange," Ellison said, "because they haven't even released it yet."

"Well I've seen it," Sinatra repeated, "and it's a piece of crap."

Now Brad Dexter, (a broad shouldered, 200 pound actor, producer and friend of Sinatra's), very anxious, very big opposite the small figure of Harlan Ellison, said, "Com'on, kid, I don't want you in this room."

"Hey," Sinatra interrupted Dexter, "can't you see I'm talking to this guy?"

Dexter was confused..Then his whole attitude changed, and his voice went soft, and he said to Ellison, almost with a plea, "Why do you persist in tormenting me?"

The whole scene was becoming ridiculous, and it seemed that Sinatra was only half-serious, perhaps reacting out of sheer boredom, or inner despair; at any rate, after a few more exchanges, Ellison left the room.
By this time the word had gotten out to those on the dance floor about the Sinatra-Ellison exchange, and somebody went to look for the manager of the club.
But somebody else said that the manager had already heard about it - and had quickly gone out the door, hopped in his car and drove home.

So the assistant manager went into the poolroom.

"I don't want anybody in here without coats and ties," Sinatra snapped.

The assistant manager nodded and went back into his office.


Link to Gay Talese's article: "Frank Sinatra Has a Cold"
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10027445166





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red dog 1

(27,820 posts)
6. My mom liked him, but my dad hated him
Mon Jun 11, 2018, 07:38 PM
Jun 2018

I always thought that Dean Martin had a better voice than Sinatra.

His most famous song, "My Way" was written by Paul Anka

Coventina

(27,125 posts)
7. I always thought "It was a Very Good Year" should have been titled
Mon Jun 11, 2018, 07:54 PM
Jun 2018

"How I Used and Abused Women All My Life"

malthaussen

(17,205 posts)
10. There you go. That is his appeal.
Tue Jun 12, 2018, 11:05 AM
Jun 2018

He is a jerk with invulnerability. One of several, but he set the bar.

I agree with you, btw. Only from what I've heard, he didn't just "come across" as a jerk.

-- Mal

Aristus

(66,401 posts)
8. I met Harlan Ellison. Even had dinner with him.
Mon Jun 11, 2018, 07:56 PM
Jun 2018

Contrary to his public image, he is sweet and charming to his fans and people in general. But if you cross him, the legendarily combative and ascerbic Ellison will come out, and you will regret it...

Randomthought

(835 posts)
9. a friend of mine punched him in the nose
Tue Jun 12, 2018, 09:40 AM
Jun 2018

Harlan and my friend where probably drunk at the time but Ellison insulted my friends SO who is a fantasy writer, not her writing but her so my friend let him have it.

hunter

(38,318 posts)
11. My wife and Harlan Ellison were not friends.
Tue Jun 12, 2018, 04:27 PM
Jun 2018

I'd met Ellison a couple of years before I met my wife, mutual friends, dinner, etc.. I had a mentor who was a beloved eccentric in the Science-Fiction-as-Literature academic community.

Early in our relationship my wife and I came upon Ellison in Santa Monica, walking towards us. I nodded toward Ellison, wondering if he'd remember me, and quickly noticed he and my wife staring bloody murder at one another like I didn't exist.

It was for me an "Oh, shit, this is where the knives come out and someone is going to die..." moment.

Fortunately for Ellison, he yielded the way.

Blame Star Trek.

Aristus

(66,401 posts)
12. I got to see the kick-ass side of Harlan Ellison when I met him at a convention in Bellevue,
Tue Jun 12, 2018, 04:38 PM
Jun 2018

Washington a number of years ago.

Most of the people attending were devoted fans of Ellison and his writing. But (as it seems from HE's reaction and those of his fans), there always seems to be one blockhead in a crowd who tries to get the better of him. I don't remember what this particular blockhead said to set Ellison off. But the room lit up with people shouting him down ("Out of order" - tht kind of thing) or otherwise making frantic neck-cutting motions with their hands to get him to shut up.

Ellision simple stood up, walked over to the head of the row where this smartass was seated, and clenched his right fist. His forearm bulged to a degree that would have made Popeye envious. Ellison said: "See that? I got that from forty years of pounding a manual typewriter, so don't think I won't kick your ass if I feel like it!"

hunter

(38,318 posts)
14. My wife could kick Ellison's ass and he knew it. Even more so today.
Tue Jun 12, 2018, 06:02 PM
Jun 2018

I'm near a foot and a half taller than either Ellison or my wife, me pretty smart too, as certified by the University of California, but no I would be tossed aside mortally wounded and irrelevant in a knife fight like that.



Thank my God whenever, they chose not to fight.

I'll remain a Star Trek Utopian, witness to much slash.
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