Dogs at eating establishments? Really?

[SHRED]

We were in a small town in Colorado sitting down on the patio to enjoy some live music and good eats.
The table next to us had a medium sized dog and then two young ladies bring a good sized pit bull to another table near us. Both owners thought it was a good idea to let these two dogs sniff each other so they relaxed their leashes. The growling and nipping started especially the pit bull and the owners struggled to separate them as they bashed into me. I came close to getting bit.

We have a pizza place back home that was "dog friendly" and a little girl got her face shredded.

If I owned a restaurant or any business there is no way I'd take on the liability of letting dogs in but I see it more and more.

My feeling is that if you can't leave your dog for a half hour to shop or eat then maybe psychological help is needed.

And also, we have been attacked by dogs on hiking trails by owners who let them run free. I carry bear spray now on hikes and not for the bears per se.

[TexasTowelie]

1. Unless it is a service dog,

I agree that it isn't a good idea to let a dog inside a restaurant. I'm more tolerant about letting a dog join the owner outside on a patio--I'll go inside to eat.

There is absolutely no reason that a dog should be allowed to roam in any situation and the owners should be liable for any damage or injuries that their dogs may cause.

[RKP5637]

5. And some people let their kids roam over the restaurant like wild critters thinking it's

cute. Pets and kids IMO should be kept under control in a public place like a restaurant. I have nothing against kids or dogs, but some people just do not know how to have them with them responsibly in public places.

[thucythucy]

22. Non-service dogs at a restaurant can be a distraction to the service dog

and thus a safety issue for the person using the service dog.

I have friends who use seeing eye dogs. Those dogs are highly trained (averaging at least a year in training, at a cost, between breeding and training, of more than $30,000.00) but even they can be distracted by another dog lunging at them or appearing someplace unexpected. A spooked or nervous or distracted seeing eye dog can be a safety risk for its owner.

Anyway, glad you mentioned the exception for properly credentialed service dogs.

[Thekaspervote]

2. Agree! I'm not sure why suddenly it's okay for dogs to be in stores, shops

My lovely daughter has crazy trumpian out laws. The mom in law has a small dog she won’t go anywhere without... just nuts. Including church. I tell ya the trump world has gone mad!

[CurtEastPoint]

3. In all the time I have spent in Europe and seen this, I have never seen a fight.

But I agree that they should be leashed. We have probs in our hood w/folks who think their babies off leash is so cool. Idiots.

[Rorey]

10. Not cool at all.

I had a "problem child" dog. He had a lot of issues when we first got him. He was about seven. I took him for an hour walk on a harness at a park every day as part of his training. It was a regular park, not a dog park. Leashes were required. My guy weighed about 70 pounds at the time, and on a harness I was well able to handle him. What I couldn't control was when people would allow their dogs to be off leash because "they're nice". I'd always warn people with dogs that they shouldn't approach us because my dog wasn't friendly with other dogs.

One day a guy showed up at the park with two small dogs and he let them off their leashes. Of course they came running right to us. I had to lift my guy almost completely off the ground so he wouldn't bite the little dogs. I got a little nip in the process, for which my guy was extremely apologetic after the drama was over. The next day I saw the guy again, and gave him a pretty good piece of my mind for letting his dogs off their leashes. I never saw him at the park again.

So yeah, people should keep their dogs leashed when they're out and about. It's for their dog's safety as well as for the well being and safety of people.

[CurtEastPoint]

16. Well said. A neighbor (tiny woman) has a HUGE dog and it dragged her into a neighbor

yard and killed their cat. Of course tiny woman claimed the cat attacked her dog. Right.

[Rorey]

20. Of course. And the cat probably dragged the dog into its yard.

Cats are amazingly strong, after all.

I used to have a sweet Rottweiler who weighed 125 pounds. I was his Alpha and he worshiped me and did whatever I asked. Still, I knew I couldn't handle both him and his Aussie mix "brother" on a walk. Too much dog. I don't *think* they would have ever done anything dangerous, but you just never know.

[ProfessorGAC]

62. Speaking For Me Rorey

My dog is always leashed. It annoys the crap out of me when some dog just comes running in the yard. Even in our yard, he's on a leash, because once he's over the property line, we're breaking a city ordinance.

My dog is a big 'un, but he's a lab, which are typically docile and friendly. But, i don't know every other dog within 3 blocks each way. So, i have no way of knowing if there's going to be issues or no. Probably not, but how would i know?

I use a 25 foot retractable leash, and my beastie doesn't seem the least bit frustrated because a 25 foot circle around me is still plenty of wandering territory.

He has a bigger problem having to wear a seatbelt in the car, but i drive a ragtop, so it's not optional.

[Maraya1969]

4. I have to be careful with my own 2 chihuahuas when food is involved.

If they are too close and food is in the middle a fight starts.

[Rorey]

6. Just don't leave them in the car

[img][/img]

Like this guy's owner did.

[Kilgore]

7. In the last two months we had similar experiences

The first was in a Walmart. Two "service" animals went at it in the produce area. One person was bit and there was a lot of commotion.

The second was in a Fred Meyer (think Kroger). Again two dogs went at it in the bakery and another person was bit. To make matters worse, after they were separated one decided to mark the territory by hiking its leg on a display. That tore it for me. Took a photo with the phone and sent it to the health department and Kroger corporate. Vented on the manager who took it in stride and explained "service" animals are allowed in the store by law and there is nothing she can do.

I am tempted to ride a horse into the store as my "service" animal. If it grazes on the produce and deposits a pile of crap on the floor.....its ok. Its my "service" animal.

Thanks for the opportunity to rant.

[Rorey]

11. LOL, Do it!!!

[Kilgore]

13. Have truck, trailer, and horse.....

I`m tempted.

[Rorey]

15. There are people who legitimately need service or therapy animals

But it really has gotten out of hand. The thing is, people are afraid to question anyone who claims their animal is an assistance animal because they don't want to get in legal trouble. As a (very nice) landlord, I've had to do a lot of research on service animals. We generally allow people to have pets, as long as they're in compliance with our insurance. Last year we found ourselves in a situation of having tenants from hell. We used the lie about having a service dog as one of the leverage points in getting them out. It was just one of many lies on their application. The dog was actually quite sweet, and if the tenants had been half as nice as the dog, they'd still be living in our house. I really believe in second chances, but when I found out what they did to their last landlord, I knew we had to get them out.

[thucythucy]

23. I believe the ADA says the service dog has to be properly credentialed.

You can't just order a harness on line and pretend your dog is a service dog.

My best friend's guide dog was bred and trained at a school in California. The dogs are bred for their job, and get up to a year of training on their own, and then a month or more training with their paired owner. In addition, the school each year sends out a team to evaluate both the dog and the owner, and if there's any question that the dog isn't living up to their standards, they have the authority to remove the dog from its user (but will first offer remedial training to help solve the problems). Of course, if they think the dog is being abused they will remove it immediately. BTW, there is a years long waiting list for people to get into the program.

My friend has a photo ID of her and the dog, issued by the school, which has an 800 number and a website so that anyone with questions about the dog's bona-fides can call or check on line.

People pretending to have service dogs do a disservice to those who truly need them. Especially if their dogs aren't well behaved. That sort of con job makes it that much more difficult for actual service dog users who genuinely need the support or guidance of their animal, and need to be free to take their dog wherever it is they need to go.

[Rorey]

24. Thank you for that info

I'm relieved to see that the dog and owner are evaluated regularly. I witnessed a woman being unkind to her service dog a few years ago, and it was very upsetting to me. She was obviously in need of the assistance of the service dog, but she also didn't appear to be a "dog person".

[thucythucy]

43. I don't know how other schools do it,

but technically my friend's seeing eye dog is still owned by the school. This way, if the school believes there's abuse or neglect, they can take the dog away immediately without having to worry about legal issues. My friend of course is fine with that. Also, if the dog becomes too old or ill or otherwise unable to work, the school will take away the harness so as not to put dog and master at risk. They then offer the option of retiring the dog to a foster family the school vets, or the master can keep the retired dog and apply for a new one and so have two dogs, one working and one retired.

It's an amazing program, with lots of dedicated people.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

49. A guy I know brought his freshly trained service dog to the office.

His wife planned on visiting hospitals and such. A very admirable endeavor but I swear the dog was lobotomized. I don’t know what they do to train them but the dog had all the personality of a stuffed animal.

[mopinko]

60. that's not a service dog.

a therapy dog is not service dog. if she was saying that, she should have her credentials revoked.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

34. .

[mopinko]

42. you arent allowed to ask what the owner needs them for but

you CAN ask- what task is the dog trained to do. if it isnt trained to do a specific task, it isnt a service dog. emotional support dogs are not covered by the ada.
they are quite a pox on actual service dogs and their owners.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

51. True.

[2naSalit]

59. indeed.

As a NPS worker, that was all I could ask about the dogs. People, especially in the US, seem to think that they are doing something "cool" by trying to skirt the rules on this.. which I find reprehensible.

I know people who need their real service dogs and I feel that those pretending to have a service dog are just trying to get "one over" on the system... I never trust anyone who does such a thing, and I have known of a few who tried to get away with it.

[Wolf Frankula]

8. I say

Keep the kids out and let the dogs in. I've never had a dog throw food at me or steal money I've left as a tip.

Keep your dogs and kids under control.

Wolf

[Voltaire2]

9. Stay outta France.

[JDC]

19. My 1st thought also.

[GoneOffShore]

33. I was about to say the same.

[mnhtnbb]

39. When we visited a friend and his French husband in Lyon last year

Spartacus came out to the wine bar with us before dinner...and to the restaurant for dinner, too.



Spartacus is very well behaved. My friend has favorite cafes that he frequents and wait staff who bring Sparty his own bowl of water.

[TheCowsCameHome]

12. Eagerly rec your post.

WTF is with this "dogs go everywhere" lately?

[bdtrppr6]

28. seriously out of control

i understand the value of pets. i have 2 cats, 1 rabbit, and 4 chickens(yes they are pets), no dogs, i'm not a dog person. this psychotic need to drag your dog everywhere is ridiculous. the grocery store, restaurants, or truly any kind of shopping or public arena, OTHER THAN A PARK OR THE SIDEWALK, should be dog free 100%. service animals are no problem, those are required to have a life.

i live in Dog Town Portland OR and they are seriously fucking everywhere. really annoying. i've been in Winco, Fred Meyer, and various brew pubs where owners have to pull their mutts apart, either from barking/lunging or an ass sniffing frenzy, and generally disrupting everything around them.

just cause you've got a dog doesn't mean i have to be subjected to it.

flame me, dog lovers, i don't care. you need to see the other side.

[Kilgore]

38. See post #7

These both happened in Portland.

Its to the point I hardly ever go into the city anymore, its beyond weird and heading for bizarre.

[KT2000]

14. arts & craft fairs too

I now a couple people who will not even go to them anymore because of all the dogs and the ones that want to fight there. All the way around, consideration of others is becoming a thing of the past.

[Aristus]

17. In Germany, people bring their dogs into the restaurants all the time.

Always on a leash. And it's Germany, so you'd better believe those dogs are well-disciplined...

[mnhtnbb]

40. France, too. See my post #39.

[Tipperary]

61. England and Ireland too.

I never had a problem with them.

[mythology]

18. You would have hated the cafe where I used to live in Colorado

Not only were they dog friendly, they once called us to ask if we had forgotten our dog there because he had dug out and spent the last couple of hours sitting on the patio bumming food. I immediately go up to get him, but he's gone, because they took him into the kitchen where he was bumming yet more food. But he considered himself less a dog than a really furry human.

[Polly Hennessey]

21. So, let me see, you don't like dogs 🐶

and dogs don’t like you. Whatever you do, don’t go to France.

[SHRED]

25. Nope

I don't like irresponsible dog owners.

[Solly Mack]

26. Don't move to Germany.

Dogs go to the mall as well as restaurants.

[dawg day]

27. In England, dogs are more welcome than Americans. :)

There were always dogs in restaurants. I will say, though, England has the best-behaved dogs. They would walk nicely down the sidewalk, curl under the chair in a restaurant, and never bark.

But I was always aware that this person I was talking to valued her dog way more than me (or her husband or friends, probably). Boy, do they love their dogs in England.

[mr_lebowski]

29. Gotta wonder how much is Yanks thinking 'dogs go everywhere in EU, so why not here in teh US?!?

... believing that they oughta be 'more free' in the USA to take their dogs 'wherever'.

Not saying everyone doing this has 'been' to Europe, but I'd bet if you jump online and google 'is it okay to take my dog to X' you quickly find European-based posts saying 'yeah, that's fine, everyone does it' ...

And being the dumbshits that US people many probably think there's no other 'factors to consider' other than 'We're the US, we're FREE here! If Euro-folk can do it, we FOR SURE can!'

Oblivious to the fact that most likely most of the dogs you encounter in Europe have been SPECIFICALLY bred for generations for their docile/social nature, plus the fact that there's probably a LOT more 'raising your dog from birth' to 'go with you everywhere' ... than what happens here.

IOW, you can't necessarily just up and start taking your 6 y.o. dog Spot to restaurant patios just because s/he doesn't cause trouble in dog parks and you read everyone in EU takes their dog to the grocery store.

It's VERY obvious (to me) that many dogs will behave very differently running around among 20+ other dogs ... than they will around just 1 or 2 others.

And they'll also often act differently on leash (as they would be, hopefully, on some patio somewhere) than when they're running around playing.

Many are also more territorial when very near their owners than they might be otherwise.

If every dog people took w/them places calmly curled up under the chair of their owner and chilled/stayed no matter what, very few (I'd think) would really be bothered as long as it's not totally unsanitary for them to be there.

[doc03]

56. No wonder dogs are more welcome than Americans, look at our

so-called president.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

30. I have gotten so I really hate dogs.

Dog owners seem to think that of course EVERYONE loves their dog, which simply isn't true. Oh, and barking. Did I mention barking? Likur e the dogs in back of me and across the street from me? They bark. And bark. And bark. Did I mention they bark?

At least cat owners are not under the delusion that everyone out their loves their cat. And even if their cat meows all day, you can't hear it from half a block away.

I have known service dogs that are a pleasure to be around. But I've known far too many dogs who aren't well controlled, whose owners are oblivious to that issue, and who (as I've already stated) assume that everyone loves dogs in general and their dogs in particular.

A lot of us don't. So keep your dog at home. And inside your house. I'm so sick of listening to barking that I'm tempted to do something that gives dog dislikers a bad name, but at least I won't have to listen to the goddam barking for hours at a time.

[roody]

31. It is a dog owner's responsibility to stop the barking.

Most of these dogs are completely neglected and bored, stuck outside and unloved and unwalked. I call the police and report a dog in distress.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

32. It may be the dog owner's responsibility, but those owners simply are not responsible.

And I get to live with the consequences. I probably should start phoning on a regular basis.

What I'm really tempted to do is create an audio file of the barking and play it back at 3 or 4 am.

[RandiFan1290]

36. What are you "tempted" to do to the dog? nt

[mnhtnbb]

41. It's not the dogs, it's the owners. Last night at 2 am I was awakened by a dog barking

in my apartment building. It's a 23 story high rise and lots of dogs. Sounded like the dog was a floor up and maybe outside on a balcony? Didn't want to go down the hall to see if it was on my floor because I didn't want my dog to wake up.

There was a big thunderstorm with lots of lightning. My dog was sound asleep. Storms don't bother her. But someone's dog didn't stop barking for half an hour. I got up, put the radio on to drown out the sound of the barking, and watched the spectacular storm out my floor to ceiling windows. Eventually, the dog stopped barking, I turned off the radio and went back to bed and back to sleep.

Turn on some white noise--music--when you are irritated by the barking.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

35. Why not just go to places that don't allow dogs? If it bothers you so much.

Last edited Mon Jun 11, 2018, 02:53 PM - Edit history (1)

Chicago dog bars. Where everyone knows your pup’s name

https://www.google.com/amp/www.chicagotribune.com/dining/foodfocus/ct-food-chicago-bar-dogs-0606-story,amp.html

[SHRED]

46. It's more than that

We've been confronted many times while hiking and biking.
Just had another incident today.
See post below.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

48. I hear you on unleashed dogs.

I’m a dog owner/lover but I can’t stand unleashed dogs.

My dog is Leash aggressive to other dogs so it sucks when some unleashed “friendly” dog comes running up. I finally had to have words with the idiot across the alley who kept letting her dog run loose in the alley so it could run straight to my gat and “go at it” with my dog in the gap under the gate. Me: “seriously, lady, why the fuck do you think it’s a good idea for your dog and my dog to try and bite eachother under the gate? It happens every day.”

A friend of mine lives across the street from a forest preserve and they have issues with unleashed dogs running up to their kids in the yard. The kids are deathly afraid of dogs. The mom is notorious for calling the county cops out to issue tickets.

My brother and I were over at the house one day and we saw a lady with a dog come out of the woods. I pointed the dog out to my brother because it was a beautiful Blue Healer (I have a mix). The lady saw me pointing and started “mother fucking” me and flipping me off. As she drove past she rolled down the window and said “thanks for calling the cops you fucking asshole” — I said “fuck off lady we are contractors building the addition. But cool dog. Idiot.” Lol.

[milestogo]

37. I carry bear spray for the pit bull that lives in my neighborhood

who wants to kill my dog.

[SHRED]

47. Good idea

[Floyd R. Turbo]

44. Over the past six months a dog bit a child in a stroller at my local market,

another pissed on a display at the Lowes where I shop, and finally one took a shit in the reception area of a newly opened restaurant. None of the dogs were service animals.

[SHRED]

45. We just had another incident this afternoon

Riding our bikes on a trail here in Colorado.
The dog came towards my wife. She got off her bike and held the bike between her and the dog asking the owner to call the dog. He refused. Instead he said, "she's friendly and won't hurt you". Whereupon she said, "I've been attacked many times by dogs while riding". He couldn't care less. He seemed indignant. I barked at him, "I guess there is no leash laws in Colorado?!?" sarcastically. He didn't turn around and just kept walking.

Fuck these dog owners who ignore leash laws and disrespect others like this.

I'm still angry.

[Rorey]

50. "friendly and won't hurt you"

The thing is, no dog owner really knows for sure what their dog might do.

I put a whole lot of trust in my Rottie that I had for almost 10 years. He would do anything I asked him to do. He seemed to love just about everyone. Still, he had the ability to cause great harm, so I never left him unsupervised when there was anyone around, and he was always on a leash and harness if I needed to take him somewhere.

It's pretty inconsiderate of someone to allow their dog to intimidate someone who is out enjoying a bike ride or hike. That guy sounds like a real ass.

[SomethingNew]

52. I take my dog to bar and restaurant patios all the time.

Many people around here do too. I have never seen dogs fight at any of the places I go. I keep mine on a short leash (and pretty much everyone else does too) but most of the time people are constantly coming over to pet him anyway.

I think you are in the vast minority with your strangely passionate aversion to something so harmless. Some people love their dogs and enjoy taking them places, especially if it's going to be for several hours to have drinks/etc. If the restaurant/bar allows it, go inside if your so bothered by it.

Edit: I'm very skeptical of all the accounts of vicious dogs constantly running up and attacking people. I'm constantly at dog parks, walking around town, out hiking/fishing, etc. I've seen thousands of dogs while out doing these things and I have never been attacked, seen someone get attacked, or seen a dog try to attack anyone. My suspicion is all these accounts come from people who don't like and don't know dogs so they see a friendly dog walking over to get petted and freak out over nothing. I've had that happen twice with neighbors and it was absolutely ridiculous both times. Of course, I made sure to keep my dog far from them after the """incidents""" so that they wouldn't have another bizarre freakout.

[Dream Girl]

53. Go inside so I can take my dog to the bar. And there you have it.

Inconsiderate dog owners so fucking obnoxious

[SomethingNew]

54. Go inside if you're one of the few weirdos who hate dogs.

I keep my dog away from people when I'm at these places so they can all just shut up about it as far as I'm concerned. He doesn't bother anyone. The same can't be said for all the kids, idiots who have stupid conversations, and loud boors, but you don't see me calling to ban all of them.

How is my position any more selfish than yours? Let's lay out all the facts:

1. Establishment allows dogs
2. Almost every customer is fine with it
3. Bites/fights are obviously not a widespread problem since they still allow dogs
4. You come in and throw a fit, demanding everyone else change to suit your preferences
5. You then call the people who refuse "fucking obnoxious"

Perhaps it's time to look inward in your search to root out obnoxious behavior.

[Dream Girl]

57. I actually love dogs but I would never take her to a restaurant. I can make it a few hours without

her. I don’t find it necessary to subject others to my dog. I find many dog owners totally obnoxious this days. And I love kids. I’m fine with them being in restaurants. I was a kid once too..we all were.

[SomethingNew]

58. Maybe you should train your dog.

When mine comes out in public with me, nobody else is "subjected" to him unless they want to be.

And have you considered that it isn't about YOU being able to go without your dog, but about the DOG not being locked up by itself in the house all day?

[doc03]

55. I go to Saint Peterburg Florida every winter for a couple weeks

very dog friendly town never saw any problem there. Some people let their kids act much worse than animals.
I love dogs but don't have one myself anymore.