Video & Multimedia
Related: About this forumSibling Incest Class Offered at University of Missouri?
The University of Missouri is offering a class on sibling incest this spring semester! Conservative heads are exploding across the country, but is there value to studying the theory of and writings about incest?
Huffington Post reports:
Also quotes the professor, Stefani Engelstein:
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)that's it. Conservatives don't have to take the class.
Kurska
(5,739 posts)And you know to be honest, if a brother and a sister whatever combination of siblings want to fuck and they are both of age how is that anyone elses business? Yes it is gross, but no one is making YOU do it.
Never understood why people feel the desire to dictate the love lives of other adults. Obviously there are real genetic reasons for two sibilings not reproduce, but all sex doesn't need to result in reproduction.
alp227
(32,034 posts)It's easy to defend sibling incest as "my body my choice" but then the problem is if the siblings breed then without a doubt their child will have severe genetic issues thus they have forced a child into a life of suffering and misery. PZ Myers states:
Kurska
(5,739 posts)This sword cuts both ways, what about unrelated people who are also at serious risk of defects in their child? Should they be banned from having children? I know older women are much more likely to have children with autism, should they be banned from having kids? Where do you draw the line? At minimum I fail to see any harm in consenting adult homosexual sibling relationships.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)a college literature class. Incest is creepy. You'll get no argument from me there, and I wouldn't take the class. But I don't see a big deal about it being offered. Studying sexuality is common in the humanities.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)A brother-sister coupling results in 25% of active genetic loci having identical alleles in the offspring. That means that if a sibling parent is a carrier of an autosomal recessive disease, there is a 12.5% probability of it manifesting in the kid.
So if the brother is a carrier of the cystic fibrosis gene (for instance), there is a 50% chance that the sister has it too (assuming that only one of their parents was a carrier). Then there is a fifty percent chance of the sister passing it onto the kid, as well as a fifty percent chance of the brother passing it onto the kid. So 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5 = 12.5%.
But there is only a two percent chance of either of them carrying the gene in the first place.
In practical terms, the increase in the prospect of genetic diseases is about 2%, which is equivalent to the increase in risk that a woman causes by giving birth to a baby at the age of 40, as opposed to 25.
Ian Iam
(386 posts)I suppose that I'm the only person on the planet who does not have his own YouTube channel. If such is, in fact, the case, then I take pride in it.
marble falls
(57,106 posts)Grassy Knoll
(10,118 posts)cousins came from ant holes.
napoleon_in_rags
(3,991 posts)...by which I mean those who are supposedly by genetic predisposition appointed to lead:
Then this topic is significant. All throughout history, so called royal bloodlines have exercised large influence, and to keep the "blood pure" they inbred.
And generally, I know from frank people I have talked with that brother sister intimacy happens, it happens quite a bit more than people would like to think. An informed society studies the world based on what IS going on, not what think SHOULD be going on.
Kudos to the prof for offering a provocative class.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Cleopatra.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)since a literal interpretation of the Bible would seem to require incest, at least in those first couple generations.
Behind the Aegis
(53,961 posts)Limiting it to siblings is, well, limiting, especially if this is about literature, etc.
alp227
(32,034 posts)and then it would have to be in a general course about pathology since incest may also cross paths with pedophilia.
Behind the Aegis
(53,961 posts)It could be included in a class on human sexuality.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Don't use that kind of language on a Sunday! Martha, cover your ears.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)If you exclude all other types of incest you lose oedipus and antigone. Seems a shame.
Christ knows how this will help anyone get a job, but then again the universities are teaching all sorts of shit these days.
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)Toward such useful words as "gobbledygook," "poppycock," and presumably "piffle," and "pablum" is profoundly disappointing.
All you have to do it observe rightwingnuttia for about 20 seconds to realize that those terms are essential to any sort of thoughtful description of the breed. "Nuts," "fools," "jerks," and "assholes" just don't cut it.
I'd also put in a vote for "twit," which I've found useful countless times. And don't get me started on "schmuck," "schlemeil," or "messhugenah."
And no, I'm not an 80-year-old British guy.
SEMOVoter
(202 posts)As someone who met their husband in "Philosophy of Sex, Love and Friendship" I can assure everyone that this class is not a how to for incest.
Wisdom says the class syllabus includes a lot of reading and essays.
I majored in finance. Always thought a "Prostitution of Money Markets, the World's Oldest Profession" would be a great class!
redgreenandblue
(2,088 posts)Conservatives are morons.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)As a friend of mine who was from Missouri once said:
"Yeah, I used to take my cousins down to the tall weeds. So let's get that out of the way right now."
DissidentVoice
(813 posts)...when I was in Developmental Psych, based on the biology of siblings as they grow up together. Especially if they're very close in age, don't have a lot of contact with others and aren't socialised yet to know about societal taboos. Biology kicks in, and involuntarily one notices the other.
Literature/film is full of explicit and implicit references to sibling incest.
Let's start with the Bible. Abraham and Sarah were half-brother/sister. Many of these far-right types howling about this class should read the book of Genesis again.
Josephine Hart's novel (and accompanying movie with Jeremy Irons and Juliette Binoche), Damage, had implicit references to a sexual relationship between Anna (Binoche's character) and her brother.
The V.C. Andrews novel (and film), Flowers In The Attic, covers this very topic.
Even in Star Wars it shows up. Alan Dean Foster's novel, Splinter Of The Mind's Eye (which was to have been the sequel to the original film if it hadn't done as well as it did), describes romantic feelings between Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia, though they don't act on them. Of course, Luke and Leia are later revealed to be the twin children of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader.
To study this topic in academia/humanities/science is not an endorsement.
Rozlee
(2,529 posts)Sarah and Abraham were half-brother and sister. King David's son Amnon raped his half sister, Tamar. Getting away from sibling incest, the bible also mentions Abraham's brother Nahor, who married his niece and Amram who married his paternal aunt. And Lot's two daughters got him drunk and had sex with him so that they could get pregnant. They did. You'd think religious conservatives had never read the bible.
AnnieBW
(10,429 posts)Besides them, House Targaryen was well-known to practice incest.
Mutatis Mutandis
(90 posts)In 1871, a short skit in the humor magazine Punch titled Most Natural Selection proclaimed that If Mr. Darwins theory of the Descent of Man were true, we should . . . have to accept quite new views of marriage. Insisting that it was preferable that married couples should not be near relations, such as cousins, the skit claimed that if we are descended from Anthropoid Apes . . . we should conclude that there was no cause or just impediment whatever why we should not marry cousins so very many more degrees removed than any other as those arboreal and quadrumanous ones. Punchs characteristically facetious contribution to the famous debates over evolution in Victorian Britain undoubtedly shocked many readers with its grotesque and disquieting insinuations regarding conjugal relations between humans and simians. But Charles Darwin himself, who had pronounced himself reconciled to mans bestial ancestry in his earliest notebooks, would more likely have been discomfited by what the skit suggested about cousin marriage, for in 1839 he had married Emma Wedgwood, a woman who was both his first cousin and his sister-in-law.
Josiah Wedgwood married a cousin, but his children did not: His sons took a step up socially by marrying into the wealthy Allen family, and his daughter Susannah married Robert Darwin, the son of Josiahs close friend Erasmus Darwin. In the next generation, Caroline Darwin married her cousin Joe Wedgwood. It was an alliance that made good financial sense, since her father, Robert, who was a private banker as well as a physician, had lent a lot of money to Joes father, Jos; the marriage would keep important debts within the family. Carolines brother Charles Darwin later married Joes sister Emma, reinforcing the alliance.
Persistent intermarriage between members of Darwins family and the Wedgwood clan effectively intertwined two bourgeois dynasties of the English Midlands. A plethora of biographical studies of the great evolutionist and the ongoing publication of his correspondence have revealed the particularities of this complex family network in great detail, with the result that more is perhaps known about Darwins extended family than that of any comparable figure (with the obvious exception of royalty). In Incest and Influence, an illuminating study of the significance of cousin marriages for the 19th-century English bourgeoisie, Adam Kuper therefore uses Darwin as an exemplar of a more general tendency.
The book opens with an account of Darwins protracted deliberation over whether and whom to marry. His choice of a close relation as his spouse was, as Kuper makes clear, entirely unexceptional for a man of his social position in England at that time: In the Victorian upper middle classes, more than 1 marriage in 10 was between first or second cousins. A similar number of marriages were between brothers- and sisters-in-law, meaning that about 1 person in 5 married within the family circle. This emphasis on endogamy was an effective means for bourgeois families like the Darwin-Wedgwoods to sustain beneficial domestic connections and to safeguard the property and riches accrued from the nascent industrial economy. Great intermarried families therefore came to dominate trades such as ceramics (the Wedgwood familys pottery was world famous) and banking (the largest bank in the world, the House of Rothschild, was a family firm, and many Quaker banking families, including the Barclays and the Gurneys, intermarried and eventually merged their banks).
clip
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)dlwickham
(3,316 posts)I was thinking the same thing
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Canuckistanian
(42,290 posts)Someone who studies criminology is more likely to become a criminal or is seeking to 'normalize' crimes?
Bloody ridiculous.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)It isn't OK anymore than pedophilia and bestiality are OK. Somethings are forbidden for very good reasons. It would be nice if murder was as repugnant to us, but large scale murder is useful. I suppose if incest became useful to the powerful, we'd be sold a diet of incest promos until it became OK too.
AnnieBW
(10,429 posts)in the "Game of Thrones" series. Oh, and extra credit if you were really into the "Flowers in the Attic" series when you were a kid.