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Related: About this forumWasserman Schultz calls Jewish intermarriage a "problem"
2015
Although she does not actively "oppose" it, she identified "assimilation" and intermarriage as problems.
"We have the problem of assimilation. We have the problem of intermarriage. We have the problem that too many generations of Jews don't realize the importance of our institutions strengthening our community..."
Wasserman Schultz recently told a Jewish group that interfaith marriage is a "problem." On Tuesday, in a statement issued by the Democratic National Committee, she said she does "not oppose" it.
dubyadiprecession
(5,722 posts)Many other religious people feel that way about their own faiths, not just jews. I respect the individuals in the jewish community who wish to preserve their religious heritage.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Gothmog
(145,619 posts)This is a major concern in the Jewish community. My Temple is fairly liberal and allows interfaith marriages but many temples do not because of the effects on intermarriage.
whathehell
(29,095 posts)the effects of intermarriage, not "on" intermarriage, right?
still_one
(92,421 posts)That is their personal belief. No one is forced to follow that
Oh wait.......
It's ok, because the thought police are telling people what they should or should not think.
I tested this out on a different thread, and actually was alerted on:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1465802
Some of this type of thought process comes right out of the movie "Minority Report"
6chars
(3,967 posts)57% of people with one Jewish parent do not identify as Jewish, and the majority who do identify as Jewish are Jews of no religion, I.e. ethnic Jews. 72% of non orthodox Jews getting married are mwqrrying non Jews. I'm no mathematician but I can see how those who want the Jewish community ... especially its religious institutions ...to continue over the next century would see this as a problem. Dws is clear that this is not that the intermarried individuals are a problem or that goyim are dirty or whatever, rather the trend is a problem for the perpetuation of thhe jewizh community. The disagreement with dws I think comes from people who wonder why anyone should care if one community or another fades away.
McKim
(2,412 posts)Was she speaking in her role as DNC chair, or was it a private gathering of Jews to talk about their faith and its future?
If she was speaking as DNC Chair, then it was not appropriate. She is probably a leader in the Jewish Community because of her political roles. But, really, as a Leftist and a Palestine Human Rights Activist, I have no problem with her saying this. This is a really private matter and it should stay private. I could be wrong. I do not like to see the press dig and delve into every private matter that a politician may have. People have a right to their own private religious beliefs and practices.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)What we used to say about racial intermarriage was not true because cultures can be entwined.
What has been said about religion is another thing. A religion is not just culture it is a belief system. And when two belief systems collide it can be a real problem. My Lutheran sister married a rastafarian (SP?) and it took them years to deal with the counter beliefs. After their divorce he has now become a Jew.
That does not mean that every religious intermarrage does not work. Many do.
Gothmog
(145,619 posts)Do you want to come explain to the rabbis at my Temple why they are wrong to be concerned about this? They would love to talk to you and explain why you are wrong
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Gothmog
(145,619 posts)Why don't you re-read your post
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Have you run out of stuff already so you have to go back more than a year now?
elleng
(131,138 posts)'Comments and a subsequent clarification from U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Weston have attracted new attention to long-running concerns over the implications of interfaith marriage in the Jewish community.
Wasserman Schultz recently told a Jewish group that interfaith marriage is a "problem." On Tuesday, in a statement issued by the Democratic National Committee, she said she does "not oppose" it.
Wasserman Schultz's use of the term "problem" isn't an unusual view; many in the Jewish community are concerned about interfaith marriage. But every utterance from the Democratic congresswoman, who represents a heavily Jewish district in Broward and Miami-Dade counties, receives scrutiny because she's the chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee.'>>>
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)culture being diluted, OK that's a certain type of opinion, but I just think it's dumb.
whathehell
(29,095 posts)If Debbie's very concerned, maybe she could move to Israel.
JudyM
(29,280 posts)because we lost a huge portion of our culture and people in the Holocaust. I treasure my Jewish culture. Should I move to Israel too?!
whathehell
(29,095 posts)Of what, bloodlines?
I Ithough Judaism was a religion, not an ethnicity.
JudyM
(29,280 posts)whathehell
(29,095 posts)but I suspect any other group expressing such negative
views on 'dilution' and intermarriage would be accused of something like racism.
JudyM
(29,280 posts)You think that's higher ground than telling people to go back to Mexico? Or you think we don't notice because it's DWS?
No. What you said is an antisemitic trope. And it's hurtful.
And then you layered on another: "any other group" wouldn't be treated as leniently as the Jews.
Take a look inside, please, if you really don't see this in your posts.
whathehell
(29,095 posts)I said she :"could", offering it as it as an alternative to someone who's a citizen of a country with a largely non-Jewish population and thinks asaimilatioin is a problem.
I've seen articles written by Israelis in Jewish newspapers
urging American Jews to expatriate to Israel for exactly that reason....Are they guilty of trafficking in an "anti-semitic trope" too?
JudyM
(29,280 posts)People to move there. Who the hell do you think you're fooling!? You made 2 bigoted comments. If you had any honor at all you'd own it.
whathehell
(29,095 posts)Last edited Sun May 29, 2016, 06:38 PM - Edit history (2)
It:s always instructive when someone pours on the accusations and name calling instead of responding directly to the content of your post.
I'm not :"fooling" anyone nor do I need to...There's no bigotry in my posts. If you don't like them, ignore is your friend. Goodbye.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)commingled.
whathehell
(29,095 posts)That was my point.
MADem
(135,425 posts)whathehell
7. I agree..
View profile
If Debbie's very concerned, maybe she could move to Israel.
That is just inappropriate.
still_one
(92,421 posts)Catholics who don't believe in marriage outside the religion should move to Rome?
I have seen similar insinuations directed toward others in Congress who happen to be Jewish
You are right, it is inappropriate
MADem
(135,425 posts)I am rocked back on my heels at some of the commentary here. It's completely unsubtle, but it's "OK" because it is aimed at someone the "Brigade" doesn't like.
We know, full well, that if the person making DWS's observations were Bernie Sanders, that anyone coming back at them with some of the snide insinuations I've seen in this thread would be blown out of the water. There would be screeching, screaming, rending of garments, demands for frog-marching, etc., etc., and so forth.
I recall when Diane Rehm talked about Sanders' "dual Israeli citizenship" and the Brigade wanted her head on a pike. "How DARE she!!!" But I guess it's OK to say those sorts of things if the target is someone other than Bernie.
Situational outrage, to be sure.
By their words we are certainly getting to know them, I guess. smh!
still_one
(92,421 posts)elleng
(131,138 posts)but it IS an issue in the Jewish community.
P.S., I am Jewish, married a 'lapsed' Catholic, celebrated all holidays so daughters saw it all, but didn't attend synagogue. Daughters attended Catholic elementary and high schools because available DC public schools not suitable. Daughters identify as 'Jewish.' Their kiddies, little now, will celebrate ??? They DO Chanukah/Christmas, and 'Eastover.' Same I think for my landlord's family, with triplets! Just finished their first college year, so we shall see.
Our culture is strong; 'religion,' maybe not so much.
whathehell
(29,095 posts)Can you describe the culture independent of the religion?
I don't see it.
elleng
(131,138 posts)honoring education, enjoying special foods, enjoying music and arts together, honoring ancestors lost in many wars/battles due to religion, these things off the top of my head.
whathehell
(29,095 posts)Last edited Sun May 29, 2016, 06:39 PM - Edit history (1)
along with much of the food, is based on religion, no?
I would say that honoring education. music and the arts is not unique to Jewish people, nor is honoring ancestors who've died as a direct result of ethnic/religious discrimination.. Just my thoughts.
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)their kids dating Catholics and vice-versa (someone Jewish? Usually beyond the pale on both sides). Most of my family, on both sides, were not very religious, and we already had a mix of Protestant, Catholic, and Jewish among our relatives over several generations. I grew up in the Fifties and Sixties knowing this was unusual in my small town/suburban area. By college, however, I found there were others like me (wow). Although nominally Protestant, I married a "fallen away" Roman Catholic whose family couldn't have been more welcoming. A Protestant school friend married an Eastern Orthodox Catholic. (they cross themselves the other way). When our daughter entered elementary school after a Montessori, multi-cultural preschool in a college town, she felt funny because "everyone else went to church." Her Dad asked if I minded if she went through the Catholic thing, and of course, I didn't. I now have an adult "Catholic" daughter who loves the holiday ceremonies like midnight mass and otherwise rarely attends church. She is also a kind, caring, and open-minded person. Religion had little to do with it. I'm amazed this should be important today.
Response to elleng (Reply #5)
silvershadow This message was self-deleted by its author.
Gothmog
(145,619 posts)As a former board member of my Temple, this is a major issue that the Rabbis raise three or four times a year.
BTW, Sanders visited Liberty University on a High Holy Day which had many people in my Temple very upset.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Gothmog
(145,619 posts)Having surrogates like Cornel West does not help nor does it help when Sanders make a speech to Liberty University on a High Holy day
Response to Gothmog (Reply #25)
silvershadow This message was self-deleted by its author.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I wonder how "many", since "many" admit to only attending during High Holy Days.
Gothmog
(145,619 posts)That claim is amusing
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)...."shucks" when she was in high school. For shame, for shame!
Lodestar
(2,388 posts)very concerned about Bernie. I've read a few articles in Jewish culture
magazines and the headlines are very anti-Bernie because they fear he
will be too pro-Palestinian or at least not pro-settlements. Israel has
taken a very hard turn to the right in many ways.
I wonder if Schultz is aligned with them.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)I wonder if talking about the problem of intermarriages sort of might legitimize the idea that intermarriages are a problem.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)Gothmog
(145,619 posts)The rabbis preach this sermon three or four times a year at my Temple. It is a big topic at most Temples
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)to do with this, but it seems to have some of the same elements.
whathehell
(29,095 posts)It sounds vaguely racist, I agree.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)Your Boss Hillary has a daughter that married a Jew. Speaking against intermarriage might upset Chelsea. Hypocrisy much?
Behind the Aegis
(53,991 posts)I really dislike the over analyzation of the Jewish community lately. Many minority communities have discussions about assimilation, it isn't just limited to Jews. Jews are far more than a religion, and many like to ignore or even discount the ethnic component because it doesn't fit their little hate-filled narrative. DWS may be a putz, but she has a right to speak out on Jewish issues.
whathehell
(29,095 posts)What's with "they ignore or even discount the ethnic component because it doesn't fit their little hate-filled narrative".
Say what? I am not understanding you...First of all, who is "they" and what is "their little hate-filled narrative"?
I'm confused, because on numerous occasions, I've heard Jewish people,, even Orthodox Jews, say that Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity.
Behind the Aegis
(53,991 posts)A "Jew", however, can be a religious designation, an ethnic designation, or both.
"They" are the anti-Semites who ignore the various components of Jews to excuse or even justify their anti-Semitism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews#Ethnic_divisions
whathehell
(29,095 posts)Who are "the anti-Semites who ignore the various components of Jews to excuse or even justify their
anti-semitism"?
I ask because the only people I know who have claimed that being Jewish is a religion and NOT an ethnicity, are Jews themselves. I don't imagine they are anti-Semites.
Behind the Aegis
(53,991 posts)"Judaism" is a religion.
"Jewish" is an adjective describing someone who practices Judaism or is a Jew.
"Jew" is a noun which refers to a person who is religiously, ethnically, or both Jewish.
So "being Jewish" generally does refer to religious practice. "Being a Jew" can refer to religion or ethnicity.
I suggest you read the links I provided. And yes, Jews can be anti-Semites, and just because they aren't including ethnicity as a descriptor doesn't mean they are anti-Semitic, maybe just not knowledgeable.
"Anti-Semites" are bigots who espouse anti-Jewish rhetoric or stereotypes, such as "Jews are more loyal to Israel" or "Jews should "go back" to Israel." To be clear, those aren't the only examples of anti-Semitism.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I can't believe this thread has been allowed to continue on.
If a Clinton supporter were the one saying "Bernie Sanders 'COULD' go back to Israel" this place would be on fire with outrage and the noise from the splash from the perpetrator being tossed over the side would be heard across the oceans.
This thread is persisting because there are posters here who don't like DWS, and they will excuse anti-semitic tropes because they don't like her.
I'm appalled at this thread. smh.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)It shouldn't be a hard concept to grasp. I think some are just playing that way to rail on DWS, whom I don't really care much for.
still_one
(92,421 posts)As I said, if someone want to criticize the Democratic chair, at least criticize her on something relevant.
The fact that the OP choose this point to be critical of the Democratic chair, implies at the minimum, an anti-Jewish sentiment.
whathehell
(29,095 posts)to me, it seems, but to the many other Jews who appear to disagree with you.
In addition, I'm well-versed in the difference between nouns and adjectives, so take your
condescension elsewhere. I'm done here
still_one
(92,421 posts)There are Catholics who don't believe other Catholics should marry outside their religion, unless the other person converts to Catholicism. In fact, that has the position of the Catholic Church for sometime now.
In fact there are a lot of religions who are of the view that someone should not marry outside their faith.
Does that mean if a Catholic holds that position, that person isn't qualified to hold certain position?
We are talking a personal religious belief, not someone imposing that belief on anyone else.
If someone want to criticize the Democratic chair, at least criticize her on something relevant
6chars
(3,967 posts)The over analyzation of the Jewish community is a fetish. It is not necessarily a good thing to be the object of someone else's fetish. And also, as you say, far more than a religion - duh, yeah. What really sucks is there are 500x as many non-Jews as Jews, so this fetish and the need to explain to them all the time what Jews are, why Jews do this, etc. is pretty exhausting - in fact impossible. Time to let it be.
marble falls
(57,260 posts)problem.
George II
(67,782 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)I was surprised to hear her call it a problem.
What's that reasoning behind that anyway? Why is it a problem? Is she concerned about preserving the culture or is it like to protect the bloodline or something? I'm genuinely curious as to the reasoning behind this.
George II
(67,782 posts)If you were "genuinely curious as to the reasoning behind this" why not do some research into the reasoning behind people's thought on the matter instead of posting a year-old video on DU?
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)They have enough challenges and bigotry to deal with.
George II
(67,782 posts)...to bring up now, in the midst of a primary campaign over which DWS is presiding and just before a Convention over which she'll be presiding, instead of 15 months ago when she said it?
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)I just finished reading at how Jane is being attacked by other Hillary supporters, so that helped give me this thought. However, kind of make sense doesn't it, you know, in that reality has a distinct pattern to it.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)But it certainly does apply to them.
If DWS sees this kind of marriage as a problem it could explain if she has some personal hatred of Bernie and Jane Sanders .
MADem
(135,425 posts)Do some homework.
UGH.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)I don't "chill" in the face of this kind of talk. Sorry if you can't "deal."
Why don't you perhaps do some homework--start here: http://brandeiscenter.com/
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)just why and how for you what I said was so earthshakingly bad? Other than that I fucked up and missed the date on which she said what she said.
MADem
(135,425 posts)when you interjected with your "chill" crap?
Hint: It wasn't you. At least follow the conversation before you snark.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)when DWS made these remarks IN A RELIGIOUS setting, not as a Congresswoman. This is recycled information, and the not so veiled insinuations being made in this thread are ugly.
So what was that about "reality?"
And Jane is (or was) a Catholic, so not sure where you are even going with that train of thought.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)DWS's private comments predate Sanders' arrival upon the scene.
One has nothing to do with the other.