Are Establishment Democrats TRYING To Lose Bernie Supporters?

[GoLeft TV]

[yuiyoshida]

1. K&R

Tweeted

[djean111]

2. It looks to me like Establishment Democrats want to distance themselves from

Bernie so as to go after the group that is closer to their own agenda - GOP voters. That's the only thing I can think of.

Unless they are just enjoying the fuck out of letting their nasty natures go public, thinking that we will have to vote for Hillary anyway.

[Baobab]

18. We know things that they don't want others to know-when you are hiding a lot it becomes unmanageable

They are desperate to hide all these facts that make it clear they have been selling us out. (like the ones in my sig)

Its becoming more and more obvious to average people and they have no way to stop it besides becoming more and more rigid and shrill.

[McKim]

49. Amen the Want the Alienated GOP Voters

Yes, the Kochs are giving her money, Kagan and Kissinger are on board. Her foreign policy is a dream come true for the Bush Family and the Oil and War Profiteers. They are quietly getting on board.

[yourpaljoey]

3. Big time. But why?

[KPN]

5. They are naively taking true progressives for granted.

They don't understand yet that this isn't about the election, it's about the system. And its fueled by a sense of urgency that isn't going to wait.

[jeff47]

8. They believe "who else you gonna vote for?" will work. (nt)

[yourpaljoey]

11. I fear they are in for a surprise of the fear-and-loathing caliber

Those days are gone. The Republicans will not vote for her.
Most of the indies will not vote for her.
And she still might force Sanders into running as an Independent.

She has her eye on the prize by has forgotten about the lift part of the equation.

[Enthusiast]

26. No. It's worse than that this time around.

[merrily]

52. DESTROY him and worry about Party unity later. Reap. Sow.

Not rocket science.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

30. They are crushing populism to win over Wall Street.

[stillwaiting]

75. I think Wall Street already knows they own Establishment Dems.

I think the Establishment is trying to crush leftist populism to SERVE Wall Street. Continue to serve that is. The pay is rather good I hear.

Unbelievable that someone can become part of the top .1% from a career in "public service".

[ciaobaby]

4. so very true - especially on DU

[truebluegreen]

6. I'd say so. They want to deny Bernie supporters any leverage

or input assuming, a la Rahm Imanuel, that we would be fucking retarded to vote for anyone else anyway.

[Jack Rabbit]

7. Camp Weathervane has few examples of how to win friends and influence people

I try to do Hillary a small favor an pay no attention to her mob. She needs to get them in line. It's a question of leadership, and she isn't providing any.

[90-percent]

9. Hillary needs to bring her supporters to heel

-Ha!

-90% Jimmy

[Moostache]

10. Isn't it obvious?

The Clinton Camp was always a center-right loving group to begin with....dating back to the economic policies of the Big Dog. They love power and the way they think power is gained and exercised is stuck in the 1990's.

Reality is different now than it was in 1992.

The dammages from Reaganomics has been magnified by two bubble bursts (dotcom circa 2000 and subprime lending circa 2008) and the pain is not being borne by ANYONE in the ruling class...for fuck's sake, not one goddamn banker went to prison and they came literally within hours of destroying the global economy and triggering a depression that would have made the "great" one look like a stroll in the park by comparison.

Their policy proposals are feckless and favor the rich.
Their budgetary priorities are cruel and favor the rich.
Their messaging and talking points debase the left and pander to the right in an attempt to sway voters from the GOP to themselves....not realizing this is NEVER going to happen, a Republican will vote for Trump over Clinton everyday of the week and 10 times on election night.

They take the left, true Democrats and anyone progressive totally for granted. They believe in their hearts that we will show up for them to prevent Trump and as such, they have no need or desire to pander to our wants or the needs of the nation.

They want power. Full stop.
Why does Hillary have such a hard time in presidential campaigns getting a coherent message across to the voters? Because she cannot come right out and say that she wants to be President because she wants power. So she fumbles around, comes off as inauthentic and dodgy. She makes voters she that she is not 100% transparent in her motivations so they naturally ask themselves "what else is she maybe not on the level about?"....which of course feeds directly into the right wing noise machine and endless references to past events....Whitewater.....Lewinsky.....Benghazi.....E-mail.....

The miscalculation by the Clinton camp will be the final coda to the death knell of the Democratic Party. This country is heading to a three party system all right....there will be a Progressive Party on the Left, a Conservative Party on the right and the Ruling Class party that is currently made up of the pandering bastards that hold sway right now.

What we needed was a push to the left.
What we are getting is dragged to the right.

Many, many, many people find that unacceptable.
It will be the reason we end up with PResident Trump in November.
I only pray he does less damage than Reagan did, though my hopes for that are very dim indeed.

Bill Clinton's sexual misadventures and lax relationship with the truth left a gap that allowed the right to splinter support for Al Gore just enough to lead to W. Hillary's brutally bad campaigning and personality on the trail is offering the same size splinter...those who cannot recall their past are doomed to repeat it indeed

[Raster]

17. The Clintons resent the fuck out of Sanders and his supporters.

How dare they challenge the Clintons? Don't they know who the Clintons are? This was supposed to be Hillary's time... Hillary's turn. How dare they?

Last time it was that upstart Black man that had the audacity to challenge The Clintons. And even though Hillary was the ONLY candidate worth voting for, the electorate - in their ignorance or stupidity - selected the inferior candidate.

And now, history has a chance to correct its previous mistake. This primary season was going to be one long, glorious victory lap for Hillary Clinton, and in effect provide vindication for the last few Bill years which did get a tad bit "messy."

How dare that low-rent, low-class, political nothing from one of the flyover states interfere with The Clinton Destiny. How dare he?

[shakedown1970]

42. So well said.

[thereismore]

12. It could be a natural immune reaction to a foreign pathogen (the truth). nt

[JDPriestly]

13. K&R. 100%.

Sooner or later, we will get a huge environmental crisis.

And the millennials will move to the Green Party. I hate to say that. I've been a Democrat and voted Democratic all my life. But Hillary is not handling the dissent in the party well. She is the least gracious candidate I remember since LBJ.

[newthinking]

14. Only one reason to attack this way: Fear

Certainly they are not thinking of the general election at this point. They were exposed and in dealing with that they realized that what happened in Nevada is doing great damage and they can't see past "doubling up".

The campaign has been "tone deaf" from the start and this is more of the same.

[zeemike]

37. Or perhaps they are trying to purge the party.

Of progressives who want real economic change.

Better to get rid of them...after all who will you vote for?...the evil Trump?
Or start a third party that would take decades to take effect if it is at all possible with no insiders to help it along.

It seems more like a velvet coup of democracy to me...and progressives stand in the way if they are in the party..

[kaleckim]

61. It wouldn't take much for the Green Party

to get enough votes to take part in the next presidential debates. If Jill Stein is smart, she's focusing on Sanders' young supporters, not only for this election, but to identify the Green Party's future leaders. The Democrats are tone deaf and, as a result, don't realize how close they are to losing the young and the left. If the Greens or another party on the left does a good job of attracting those groups, watch out.

[zeemike]

67. Well that is hope.

But I am a pessimist and I think that if any party like the Greens start to rise they will be infiltrated and neutralized. Big money has a way of doing that.

Remember the Independent Party?...look what happened to them. They are gone now and were destroyed by the Republicans from within.

I don't know what the answer is except a political revolution with leaders that can be trusted to not sell out...and those kind of people are rare.

[kaleckim]

70. Any party can be infiltrated

look at the two major parties. I think the Democrats might not be redeemable.

[cantbeserious]

15. Obviously

eom

[nyabingi]

16. I think they truly are

Hillary's campaign has always signaled that they are done with making concessions (and that's just how they see them, concessions) to the progressive left of the party, and they fully intend to move back to the right where they are most comfortable.

The Establishment doesn't want to deal with Bernie supporters because they know we are the tip of the spear - the people who will be sitting in, protesting, striking, marching, and taking it to the streets to fight for what is right. They want us to go away and stop challenging their supremacy, but that's not going to happen.

Hillary's supporters are comfortable with things as they are, so they don't even bother to show up to her rallies. This is also why Hillary has to pay people to stand up for her on social media.

[stupidicus]

19. it's the same old song and dance

as I argued to the would-be censors around here in 2012 whining about how critiques of BHO were coming from Romneyites, etc, trying to discourage participation in the election, that it was more than likely them and their conduct of the kind he noted that would be responsible for their self-fulfilling prophecy of a sort...

It's one thing to feel like the party is moving too far away generally speaking from your moral/ideological core, while quite another to be victimized by the partygoers. That always leaves victim thinking they're unwelcome and ready to quit the participation sought.

[Cryptoad]

20. Bern continues to show his ass

after his loss to Hillary! He will be back in his little office in the Senate basement soon and Good Riddance to him and his supporters.... we dont need u to beat Trump.

[RWilliam]

24. Tone Deaf

Are you really that tone deaf? Did you read the posts here? Seems like you are part of the problem to me friend.

[bkkyosemite]

27. DISGUSTING.!

[shakedown1970]

45. Lol. Your arrogance and delusions are showing.

[McKim]

50. I Wonder if Hillary Supporters are Really this Nasty

I wonder if some of the more heated comments against Progressives or The Left are really Right Wingers working to drive a wedge in the Democratic Party. I wonder about who might benefit. And I think we should consider all possibilities. I am a firm Sanders supporter to the very end, but wonder about the nasty comments. Be Ware.

[kaleckim]

57. "we dont need u to beat Trump."

Have you seen the freaking national polling and polling in swing states? Are you out of your mind? That's what is mind blowing, you don't realize how angry people are at the system and politicians like Clinton. You are all tone deaf and in for a rude awakening. The polls right now should have been that, but it seems very little can penetrate the Clinton bubble.

[BuelahWitch]

73. That's right, the Republicans know how to cheat at elections

better than Democrats. There aren't going to be enough people voting for her to prevent a good old fashioned vote flipping.

[phazed0]

21. K&R. Absolutely right. nt

[beastie boy]

22. Trump is addressing the NRA convention right now, and he is quoting Bernie...

... bashing Hillary to the raving applause of the gun freaks.

Hell, I want nothing to do with this Trump enabler!

[JimDandy]

34. Bernie has no control over how Clinton or Trump quote him.

Bernie doesn't 'enable' Trump any more than Clinton does. Each candidate is solely responsible for whether or not they win. Neither Bernie nor any real Sanders' supporters, a lot of whom are progressives, would ever vote for Trump.

[beastie boy]

38. Bernie has full control of what comes out of his mouth.

And when he lies about Hillary, he can be sure his lie will be picked up and amplified by the right wing.

It's a no-brainer.

[shakedown1970]

46. Name a lie Bernie has told. Links? Video? Anything?

You support a corrupt candidate- the Republicans won't have to lie about her at all.

[beastie boy]

48. It is the lie that was met with raving applause at the NRA convention today.

"Hillary is not qualified to be President". Three Pinocchios' worth of a lie.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/04/07/sanderss-incorrect-claim-that-clinton-called-him-not-qualified-for-the-presidency/

Apparently, your opinion of the Republicans is more favorable than that of Bernie.

[JimDandy]

54. Again, he has NO control over how anyone quotes him.

And speaking of lies, that one Clinton and all of her supporters pushed this week about Sanders' supporters being 'violent at the NV convention' is now going to cost you big time.

[beastie boy]

56. Once again, he has full control of what comes out of his mouth.

And unless he is a total dolt, he is fully aware that any lie he utter can be used by the right wing. And it was. At the friggin NRA convention. And it will be used by the right wing again and again.

He is a right wing enabler, and he knew he would become one before he lied.

Oh, and the despicable conduct of Bernie supporters at the Nevada convention has already turned the majority of the Democratic left wing against Berne. Just look at the left wing blogs to see the outrage.

[kaleckim]

59. How is that lying about her, her character, or her record?

THAT'S all you got? My god, you people just spent the last few days blatantly lying about what happened in Vegas (should be ashamed of yourselves) and THAT is all you got. Pathetic.

Sanders pointing out that she is corrupt is true, isn't his fault, it's your for voting for someone whose largest donors are banks and who has gotten more money from Wall Street than all the other candidates combined. Stuff that is objectively true isn't Sanders saying anything, it's tens of millions saying and thinking those things. Your problem isn't that Sanders has been (often meekly) critiquing her for that, her center-right economic record, or her hawkishness. Your problem is that those critiques are all true.

The RNC, the freaking RNC, is running ads now about how corrupt she is. How is that anyone's fault but her's?

[beastie boy]

63. Hey, take your argument to WP, ok?

They are the ones whose job it is to identify lies, and they did just that:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/04/07/sanderss-incorrect-claim-that-clinton-called-him-not-qualified-for-the-presidency/

Bernie lied. And the membership of the NRA convention, the freaking NRA is applauding Bernie's lie today.

So quit changing the subject and face the music.

[Peachhead22]

44. Right, and Trump is so dumb...

that he wouldn't think of any criticisms of Hillary on his own. /sarcasm

Bernie's criticisms of Hillary are just stating the obvious. And Bernie isn't even touching the most obvious line of attack (her judgement wrt the email server). If Bernie sees her weakness you can be damn sure GOPers see them too. It's better for Hillary to get practice defending against the criticisms now rather than later.

So Hillary supporters really should stop with the "oh noes, Bernie is giving Trump ideas!" canard.

[beastie boy]

47. Which part of "he quoted Sanders" escaped your attention?

Sanders didn't give Trump any ideas. Sanders lent credence to Trump. Sanders gave Trump a platform. Sanders enabled Trump. Has nothing to do with Trump's intelligence and has everything to do with Sanders' intentions.

Never mind that Bernie lied about Hillary's qualifications. His lie is being applauded by the far right today.

[kaleckim]

64. ...

"Sanders didn't give Trump any ideas. Sanders lent credence to Trump. Sanders gave Trump a platform. Sanders enabled Trump. Has nothing to do with Trump's intelligence and has everything to do with Sanders' intentions."

These are a bunch of dumb claims, so instead of just listing a bunch of poorly thought out claims, back them up. "Sanders gave Trump a platform." Okay, explain the logic as to why you say that.

[beastie boy]

65. Oh please, pay attention!

Trump just gave a speech to the NRA convention, in which he directly quoted Bernie saying "Hillary is not qualified to be President". And the right wing gun freaks went wild!

Are you saying that Trump quoting Bernie's lie to the right wingers was not enabled by Bernie's lie? Are you saying Bernie's lie did not lend credence to Trump quoting him to the gun freaks? Are you saying the raving applause Trump received from NRA members did not create a platform for Trump? He received an endorsement from them after quoting Bernie's lie!

[kaleckim]

66. Wait

You are claiming that Sanders saying that Hillary wasn't qualified to be president is a lie?! What in the hell are you talking about? Saying that isn't a freaking lie, it's an opinion! You're so dense that you don't know what the definition of a lie is. Who gives a damn if he quotes him on that anyway? Do you honestly think McCain didn't use anything Clinton said against Obama? My god, Clinton at one point said that she and McCain were qualified to be president, and that all Obama had was a speech. You're so bad at propaganda, and your arguments are so unconvincing.

Here's Sanders full quote. Please provide evidence that Trump was making this point to the NRA crowd, you fool. Does Brock pay you by the lie, or the poorly thought out comment? Either way, you're golden.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/06/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-qualified/

"My response is if you want to question my qualifications, then maybe the American people might wonder about your qualifications Madame Secretary," he said.
Sanders added: "When you voted for the war in Iraq, the most disastrous foreign policy blunder in the history of America, you might want to question your qualifications. When you voted for trade agreements that cost millions of Americans decent paying jobs, and the American people might want to wonder about your qualifications. When you're spending an enormous amount of time raising money for your super PAC from some of the wealthiest people in this country, and from some of the most outrageous special interests ... Are you qualified to be president of the United States when you're raising millions of dollars from Wall Street whose greed and recklessness helped destroy our economy?"

[beastie boy]

68. Temper, temper, mon ami!

I was watching Trump live today, and he gave full attribution to Bernie's lie.

And it was determined a long time ago that Bernie lied:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/04/07/sanderss-incorrect-claim-that-clinton-called-him-not-qualified-for-the-presidency/

If you don't like WP's definition of a lie, take it up with them, mkay? Or maybe you should take it up with every NRA member in attendance. They sure didn't take it as an opinion...

...Now, if only you can tell me where I can collect Brock's checks due me, I would appreciate it very much. I must have missed out on a lot of payments.

[kaleckim]

69. You don't know what the definition of a lie is

and you look like a fool. Third rate propaganda, Brock would not be impressed.

[beastie boy]

72. Ad?... Ad Hominem?... Is that you?...

I thought you sounded familiar!

If you have nothing to say, don't say it, allright?

[kaleckim]

74. Ad hominem?

You don't know what a lie is. He saying she isn't qualified isn't a lie, it's not something that can be proven right or wrong, it's an opinion and is entirely subjective. If I were to say you are the most handsome man in the world, how would I prove it to be true? Is there an objective metric everyone agrees to? No, I might think that, another person might not think you look so good. They're opinions. Now, if I were to say the Earth had one sun, we could prove if what I was saying was true or a lie. Does this help you? Trump may say that because that's his opinion, and sometimes vile people will agree with you. I'm sure if you and Stalin were in a room, you might agree on some things about the objective reality you share.

Anyone that knows this language we're using will see I'm right and you're embarrassing yourself. She isn't qualified either, that's my opinion. She's also invisible. Am I lying?

[beastie boy]

76. Repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of

insanity, my clueless friend!

I am not in a habit of arguing hypotheticals with partisan hacks. I am using WP's determination that Bernie lied. If you think they don't know what a lie is, take it up with them, and if they retract the three Pinnocchios they gave Bernie for that lie, let me know, m-kay?

[AgerolanAmerican]

23. If you see the establishment's job as suppressing popular will

on behalf of the oligarchy - and I'm referring to both parties' establishments - then what we see unfolding makes perfect sense.

Her job is not to win, even though she clearly desperately wants to. Her real job is to make sure WE don't win. And she is providing returns on that investment to her sponsors and patrons.

[zeemike]

39. Bingo...

The important thing is that we don't win...once she has the nomination the election cycle is over as far as they are concerned.

[McKim]

51. Thanks for This Brilliant Insight

I so appreciate your insight. You must be a great chess player. Keep pumping out those big ideas for those of us who are not great strategists!

[pa28]

60. Short sweet and to the point!

The idea is making sure the only two choices on election day are safe for the status quo and the interests of major donors. The Republican establishment failed this time but Democrats kept their end of the bargain.

[Enthusiast]

25. This explanation fits the evidence.

[JFKcrat]

28. They don't know how to behave when

People aren't buying into their ideology and following orders inherently. They can't handle dissent, just as with Mayor Daley. The mainstream DNC is being exposed for the intolerant authoritarians others have started to claim them to be over the past few years. Even if you are on the correct side of an issue (I'm not saying they are) you can't just bash people over the head with a stick to get them to follow you.

Dems are supposed to care about the means to an end as well. But as most of us are waking up to the fact that Dems and Reps are simply the to two arms of the rich (the right lowered taxes on the rich, the left took welfare programs and turned them into prisons), we see they are not true "Democrats". They are NeoLiberals, an amalgamation of a corporate operative who uses social moral trends to gain market share and a classic 1970s-2007 Republican attempting to concentrate wealth at the top.

[LibDemAlways]

29. In a word, yes. They don't think they need us, or they assume that we

will come around because Trump is too awful to contemplate. They see no particular need to make the case for her to those of us on the left, which, I suspect, is a huge miscalculation and may well cost her the election.

You don't shit on a candidate and his supporters for a year and then assume those people are going to carry water for you. Some Bernie supporters will, without a doubt, pull the Hillary lever in the fall. Some won't, but that will not be Bernie's fault. She'll only have to look in the mirror to know who to blame.

If Clinton is so weak that she can't defeat a politically inexperienced racist gasbag in the general, that's on her. It has nothing to do with Bernie or his supporters.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

32. They have ALWAYS considered us to be a tiny fringe that doesn't show up anyway.

[mountain grammy]

31. K & R

and yes!

[Lemonwurst]

33. Honest question here...

What do you suggest they do, specifically for Bernie supporters?

Not being facetious here. And please, no platitudes - honest, constructive suggestions.

[Warpy]

35. Short answer? YES

The Wall Street Democrats at the center of party power these days have never cared too much about winning elections as long as their cash flow has stayed positive. We're out here messing with the cash flow, educating folks and encouraging them to avoid giving to the party and their official election funds. We've become the deadly enemies of their bank accounts and they all wish we'd go away. If Hillary loses without us, so what? The Donald is friendly to Wall Street and will keep their personal and political coffers full.

This has been the stinkin' thinkin' at the top for a very, very long time and why Dr. Dean's 50 State Strategy wasn't continued. It's just cheaper to throw pennies at safe races than risk dollars in contested ones.

Smart Democrats in the past have coopted the progressive left's ideas, enough of them to keep them quiet. I'm afraid the current crop of Wall Street Democrats are not smart Democrats.

[ConsiderThis_2016]

36. He who laughs last...

He who laughs last... laughs the loudest. Be careful what you wish for, could never be so true. They'll get the SCOTUS they deserve.

[ChiciB1]

40. Thanks For Posting GoLeft TV... I've Been An Activist For A Very

long time and was around when she ran against Obama and even back then was appalled by how she campaigned against him. But what DWS AND This Democratic Party has done to Bernie is even worse!

At the very least she could have come out and said SOMETHING about what's been going on and the proven UNTRUTHS being spread about Bernie. He silence speaks volumes!!!!

[danimich1]

41. I don't think they understand

just how angry people are. They live in a bubble. They think this is a usual election where the main differences between candidates are their looks and maybe one or two differing views on a couple policies. But it's not.

[McKim]

55. They Do Live in a Bubble

They do live in a bubble of entitlement. They are really upset that the rest of us do not have the same world view. They think it is
1990. They don't see the poverty, the desperation and the ruined lives. Too many fancy dinners at the Clinton Foundation with the international jet set, Rahm Emmanuel and his ilk being nominated to positions they did not deserve.

[lumberjack_jeff]

43. Yes. It's not a campaign, it's virtue signaling.

Fundamentally, the only consistent thread throughout the Clinton campaign is to disparage the Sanders campaign by inaccurately associating it with white men.

But it's apparently impolitic to say that Clinton support is driven by antipathy toward them. We don't have any problem recognizing that hating women is big loser for the GOP, but persist in the idea that hating men is a winner for us.

[pa28]

53. He's exactly right.

The Hillary campaign and her supporters have run a highly divisive campaign complete with ad hominem insults and inflammatory rhetoric against the left from DAY ONE.

I don't know why they are trying to marginalize the left but it's clear they are not interested in including Sanders supporters in the convention process or uniting the party. Guess we'll see how well that works out for them in November.

[kaleckim]

62. Or in the coming years

I wouldn't be shocked if the Green Party did really well (relatively speaking at least) in the election.

[Cheese Sandwich]

58. They are trying to push Bernie voters out to marginalize our ideas

The biggest threat to the system is the anti-corruption movement.