1968

[yuiyoshida]

[liberal N proud]

1. Repeating that would provide the same results

The results would be far more disastrous for the nation than that was. And it was pretty damn bad.

Nixon = More War
Trump = New War(s)

[merrily]

10. 1968 Nixon. Less war than Johnson. Don't think war makes your case for you. However,

part of the problem was that Humphrey was a candidate who was anointed by Party bosses and associated, fairly or not, with bad war policies.

But that was the convention, not the general election. The convention was a mess because of LEO brutality and I certainly can see that happening again.

[silvershadow]

27. So can I. nt

[turbinetree]

2. We could die, and get drafted-- but we couldn't vote----unless you were twenty-one also---------

http://todayinclh.com/?event=david-miller-become-first-to-publicly-burn-his-draft-card

[1monster]

3. I remember...

Thanks for posting this.

[silvershadow]

28. I hope the Clintonites don't take us down this road. nt

[1monster]

34. That thought crossed my mind also.

[LiberalArkie]

4. A great quote from Richard J Daley after the convention

September 9: In a press conference, Mayor Daley makes a now-famous slip of the tongue: “The policeman isn’t there to create disorder, the policeman is there to preserve disorder.”

[jwirr]

5. Thank you Yuiyoshida for posting this. I was setting home

with two of my children and expecting another when this happened. This was part of a year that changed my life. I am what I am today because of this and the deaths of MLK and RFK not to mention many others.

So as I was watching the documentary I was thinking about today vs then.

To begin with there is a big difference in the world situation. We were in Vietnam then and that was one of the main issues. A war and the draft. The people protesting were not all college students but many were. I did not go to college until years later.

Today the situation is different and effects many more of us. Our whole world is in trouble and we have vital problems that need to be addressed like Climate Change. The people who are protesting now are voters who are supposed to be a real part of the system but are finding out that they can vote all they won't but have consistently been ignored. We are living under a corporate oligarchy. So the situation is different both in why we are in a movement and what we are fighting for.

As you listen to the narrators it is very clear that the idea of establishment vs the people is the same. And like back then the establishment now does not believe that we are a part of their party. The protesters were told outright that they were not wanted. As if they thought we wanted to be part of that party after the convention!!

And convention managers have not changed either. Voice votes with the chair calling the winner before anyone could even object. Watching I was as angry as I was that week. About both then and now.

IMO the only thing that Humphrey could have done differently was go down and walk with the candle light marchers. But I suppose that would have been very dangerous.

I hope at Philly if there is controversy that we will remember to stay non-violent - let them be to blame. And I hope they understand that we are NOT an invading army but instead we are actually half of the Democratic Party.

This is not going to be a coronation.

[reACTIONary]

6. Actually, there was no need for the convention chair to...

.... tip the vote: everyone there was a party boss / insider. As a result of chicago, '68 ...the primary / delegate selection process was significantly reformed, which lead pretty much staight to McGovern's nomination and eventually the nomination process we have today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGovern-Fraser_Commission

I supported McGovern then. He lost, big time, to nixion.

[merrily]

11. Lots of reasons for that, but the lie is that he lost because he was liberal.

And that lie has been drummed into Democrats ever since.

[reACTIONary]

13. I'm not sure that's correct . ..

.... but i am sure it's not a lie. A difference of opinion over the contributing causes in a complex situation is not a lie. It's a difference of opinion.

[merrily]

19. You believe/assume it was not a lie. That is not the same as knowing it was not a lie.

There is no way you can know or be sure. However, from what I have read, Dems knew no one was going to beat Nixon. Among many other things, he was (a) an incumbent, with all the advantages that brings and (b) a war time incumbent. In the history of the US, no war time incumbent has been defeated.

There is a long anti-liberal history in the Democratic Party. But, that is a big subject.

[reACTIONary]

25. If you disagree with a....

.... thesis or hypothesis, and do so by calling those who advocate it liers, rather than criticality examining their reasonimg, you are displaying a very weak level of reasonimg yourself .

Being in disagreement with someone is not evidence that they are lying. If you want to make assertions about other's character you should back them ip with some evidence .

[merrily]

31. If you disagree with a thesis or hypothesis and do so by calling those who advocate it weak in

reasoning, you are displaying....what exactly?


"Being in disagreement with someone is not evidence that they are lying."

No kidding. It's not evidence that they believe what they're saying, either, though. And there is other evidence.

[reACTIONary]

32. If a thesis is incorrect, you should be able to...

.... demonstrate that without reference to rhe motivation and honesty of those advancing the thesis. If someone does resort to such accusations it calls into question their ability to demonstrate that the thesis is incorrect.

So, if you want me to consider the possibility that McGovern did not loose because of his liberal ideology (which, by the way, I never maintained ) then you will have to do better than simply asserting that it is "a lie".

[merrily]

33. zomg. Get real.

[reACTIONary]

35. LOL, I seem to have...

..... overestimated you.

[merrily]

36. Maybe, but you've now convinced me to post what I decided against for my previous post:

Get over yourself.

My first instinct was right.

[reACTIONary]

39. Thanks for the advice! eom.

[yuiyoshida]

8. I always enjoy Histoy

and loved it in High School and College. This video was pretty much a nice piece of knowledge
that is good to have, and Yes, I can see the differences between now and than, but I also see
a sense of what may be still to come in Philly.

[jwirr]

12. Yes, Philly will be interesting but I am afraid that the MSM

may only cover what they want to cover. Back then we actually had a free press.

[yuiyoshida]

14. I think we will see history made

but not in a good way. I predict, that Bernie Sanders and his followers will be locked out of the process of the convention, something controlled by Hillary, DWS and her followers. This arrogance will spark a fire that may burn though the convention.

[jwirr]

16. That is pretty much how I see it also. I have been suggesting

that instead of a repeat of 1968 that the delegates turn their back on the convention - walk out the door and hold their own convention. Somewhat similar to what the delegates in 1968 did with the candle light march.

It may mean that the party will break up but if we are not welcome then we are better off going our own way.

But the biggest thing that I suggest is that we make very sure that we follow Bernie's lead - see what he wants to do before we act.

[yuiyoshida]

17. yeah that could work...

I been so depressed about this whole thing of late, so I tend to sink into my music...
I found this by Alice Nine... called Blue Flame, it expresses a lot of what I feel..

[jwirr]

18. I assume that most of us are sometimes depressed but I

think we need to recognize that we are not alone. Back in 1968 many of us felt empty. RFK and MLK were gone. Our party was not listening to anything we had to say.

But the worst thing was that we were alone in this. We did not have the kind of communication we do now with the social media. No one had asked us to build a movement like Bernie is asking so we drifted not knowing where we were going.

Today we have each other and we have a purpose EVEN if we lose this election. That is what is keeping me optimistic more than anything else. You and I have a purpose beyond the election. And we are going to be good at it.

[yuiyoshida]

20. Well we survived the Bush Years..

and all that nonsense... no matter what happens.. or who wins, I will always have my music!

[silvershadow]

30. So true about free press. And a press that understood their role. nt

[silvershadow]

29. I hope the Clintonites don't take us down this road. nt

[sammcgee68]

7. Memories

This is my first post here on The Democratic Underground. I have been lurking in the background since Bart Cop passed away a couple of years back. I never did consider myself eloquent or articulate enough to post , but after watching this video The buttons it pushed were so overwhelming that I just had to say something. I was a college student at Miami University of Ohio (Oxford) at the time , My dad was a working stiff who got lucky and worked a union job; UAW, and was able to send 2 kids to college ( A situation that would never happen today) This event was Nationally televised , and the situation it caused in our relationship was life changing for me. We got in an argument and the rift it caused in our relationship would last for over 25 years. We became polar opposites in our belief systems. That is why I couldn't keep quiet anymore . This just hit me in my gut and the memories came flooding back.
The times are really changing , I can feel it in the air. The young people are right the time for change is now. The country cannot devolve into Hate.
My relationship with my dad did evolve and change for the better, He lived to a ripe old age of 87 and became quite progressive in his views in the later years. I guess You had to have been there.
Thanks for letting this old Guy Rant. I needed that.

[yuiyoshida]

9. Welcome to DU!!

Youkoso!! And thanks for your message, doumo arigatou!

[jwirr]

15. Many of our families would split on this issue for many years

to come. And it was very painful. I am glad that you and your dad were able to overcome the problems.

[Rhiannon12866]

24. Welcome to DU!

Glad you decided to join us! And I appreciate your story. My Dad was something that doesn't exist anymore - a liberal Republican! I wish every day that I could talk with him about what's going on now. He took me into the voting booth with him when I was just a little kid and let me push the levers. Can't help wondering who I may have voted for back in the day, LOL. And though we voted for different candidates, he never chastised me for my vote, he was just glad to know I voted. Thanks for the rant and hope you stick around...

[RepubliCON-Watch]

21. Damn Yuiyoshida, back at it again with the A+ post! nt.

[yuiyoshida]

22. Thank you

doumo arigatou gozaimashita.

[RepubliCON-Watch]

23. Walang ano man. nt

[yuiyoshida]

37. :)

ang kapayapaan sa inyong

[silvershadow]

26. I hope the Clintonites don't take us down this road. nt

[felix_numinous]

38. K&R Great documentary

From Viet Nam to the War on Terra, the dynamics haven't changed, only increased in scope. People who think all baby boomers are responsible for today's conditions haven't been told the whole story, of a generation who awakened and were educated to see through this crooked system of war.