The #1 reason why I don't like Hillary Clinton

[Cheese Sandwich]

March 2008:

"And I believe that at the same time that we have to make clear to the Iraqis that they have been given the greatest gift that a human being can give another human being – the gift of freedom. And it is up to them to decide how they will use that precious gift that has been paid for with the blood and sacrifice and treasure of the United States of America.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/hillary-and-the.html

She thinks we gave the Iraqi people a gift, the greatest gift a person can give.

Also this comment strikes me as racist and dehumanizing toward Arabs because I think millions of people probably died or had their lives turned into a living hell because of the illegal war.

I don't want to paste in too much shocking images but if you google for images of Iraq war dead and injured you won't be able to look at the consequences of this gift of freedom.

And then Hillary also kept repeating the same policy again and again, in Libya and in Syria, which is ongoing. It wouldn't be much of an exaggeration to say she leaves a trail of destruction everywhere she touches.

And then a couple years later she made these further disgusting comments selling the destruction of Iraq as an opportunity for corporations to profit:

I hope we can all agree Hillary Clinton's attitude toward Iraq has been disgusting and offensive.

[phazed0]

1. K & R +10000

It is deplorable. Not only on her, but for the many with such short memories (or NO care).

[billhicks76]

119. Collusion With Bush Family My #1 Reason

And it has gone on since the early 80s. Someone please post the photo of Bill and Bush Sr from '82 at private Maine family retreat.

[roguevalley]

134. they never expected such a fuck up and when you helped kill that many people

and children any lie helps. The sheer mendcity, the white man's burden of her remarks make me hurl. She is soaked in blood. Maybe that is why Kissinger loves her so. Peas in a pod.

[Cheese Sandwich]

152. Kissinger said he supported the Iraq war because "we need to humiliate them"

From Bob Woodward's book State of Denial: Bush at War, Part 3.

(Link) (hat tip)

And that is Hillary's adviser and friend, Henry Kissinger .

[snagglepuss]

2. Powerful.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

182. Very.

[choie]

3. Those links say it all

Despicable.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

183. Just sad... is this really the best we got?!

[saturnsring]

4. regardless of what she said the u.s. was still going into iraq

[choie]

8. So?

We are all responsible for our words and actions. Are you saying that Clinton said these things because we were going to war anyway? That means she either agreed with the war or she was being politically expedient. Either way, she has no moral compass at all.

[saturnsring]

82. her iwr vote didnt matter cause they were going anyway - maybe her constituents wanted her

to vote that way, maybe she did after seeing the intelligence. monday morning quarterbacking sure is easy isnt it.

[choie]

111. How come most of us

knew that the Bush administration was lying, but she didn't? She knew that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11. As for her constituents, I was one of her constituents. Thousands and thousands of New Yorkers protested against the war before the bombs started to fall. Monday morning quarterbacking has nothing to do with it. She did what was politically expedient for her - her eye is always on what will help her politically, and not on what is right, morally and ethically.

[pangaia]

128. +++++++++++++++++

[roguevalley]

135. her vote counted. it counts to the living and dead. period

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

184. Whooop!... there it is!!

[lob1]

150. You condone murder with that argument.

After all, we're all gonna die anyway.

[eilen]

170. I was one of her constituents and did not ask her to vote for the war.

There was not widespread support.

[Bohunk68]

174. BINGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Same thing here.

[pangaia]

185. So was I. I knew what was up. Why didn't she know?

Answer- She DID know. She just didn't give a shit. She wanted to be president...

[Akamai]

100. Choie -- Your word choice is so much like that of Bernie Sanders. I saw his picture in your message,

read the words, and could hear Bernie uttering them. Good job!

Go Bernie!

[choie]

139. Akamai, I take that as a huge compliment

Thank you!!!!!!

[Akamai]

163. And you should! Bernie has the straight talk to critical issues! Straight on! No time spent in

things that aren't helpful! That aren't moving all of us to do the things we have to do!

Go Bernie!

[FighttheFuture]

72. And she was part of the enabling of the worst blunder is US History.

[saturnsring]

80. yea and if she said no, iraq wouldnt have been invaded amiright?

[OwlinAZ]

131. Not the point.

[FighttheFuture]

132. Irrelevant. The point is about Hillary. She made another turd in that crap necklace she has wear

that calls into question her judgement, or lack thereof. She was being politically expedient because she lacks courage, or she is a warmonger which is despicable. Either way, it sucks for her, and makes fools of those who try to minimize it and explain it away.

[-none]

179. The larger point is Hillary now thinks she wants to be our President.

Her views and her war criminal friends have not changed.
The Iraq war was totally unnecessary and the Middle East is in a quagmire because of our meddling over there. WE, the United States are responsible for most of the death and destruction there.
But the Terrorists? Those are terrorists of OUR making. Our foreign policy in the Middle East is guaranteed to continued the current situation of death and destruction. The perfect perpetual motion machine.
We have the Midas Touch, except everything we touch seems to turn to shit, not gold. Well maybe, except for the golden profits of the MIC.

We have no real need for another war monger in the White House. We need to turn ourselves around and give Peace a Chance.
Out of all the people running on both sides, who do you think has the best chance of doing that? Who?

[noiretextatique]

192. Did you see her gushing about business opportunities in Iraq?3

After her vote, and before she claimed her vote was a mistake? That makes her apology ring untrue.

[ladjf]

146. And it was also the worst political blunder in her life. It cost her the election in 2008.

Currently, by making such preposterous remarks, she is supported her bad decision and might loose
another shot at the Presidency over it. The lady doesn't know when to fold.

[FighttheFuture]

180. "Hillary Clinton. She’ll say anything, and change nothing. It’s time to turn the page. ...

Paid for by Obama for America."

[ladjf]

181. Her record of that type of behavior is vast and can't be expunged. nt

[Martin Eden]

110. My friend was likely to die of a heroin overdose anyway ...

... so I bought him some smack.

Social Security benefits are likely to be cut eventually so if my congressman votes for the cuts, no harm done.

My country is going to launch a disastrous and extremely costly war and commit war crimes, so I'm just hunky-dory with Democrats who give vocal support and their votes to get that ball rolling.

Can't beat that logic.

[Baobab]

118. well put

I think it was all about the money.

Wars are basically huge unsupervised wealth transfers of taxpayer money to the well connected.

[Martin Eden]

121. That's part of it, but in Hillary's case I think the 2 bigger parts were ...

1) The political calculation it was better for her political career in the post-9/11 environment to be a hawk.
2) She really is a hawk and was on board with the neocon agenda, even though she had to know the case for war was bogus (I don't think she's that stupid).

[chwaliszewski]

136. Only Two Things Happen During Every Single War...

Somebody dies and somebody makes money. Everytime.

[AlbertCat]

123. regardless of what she said the u.s. was still going into iraq

Kinda like my primary vote doesn't matter because La Hillary wants to run for president.

[JonLeibowitz]

156. Or your general election vote in a Deep Blue state. But that disrupts the narrative ;)

[rhett o rick]

154. Actually that is a great point. So she could have opposed it and made us proud, but she didn't.

She felt she needed to impress the MIC. Those defense contractors that profited by the deaths of Iraqi's and Americans would be a great asset in future campaigns.

[leveymg]

169. She was running for President then. She is now. That's all that matters

She got it wrong as Secretary of State, too, but nobody holds Hillary accountable. She just keeps on running because she pleases the right people who are going to make her President. What then? Just what they want her to do. "Real men do Iran."

[MisterP]

5. everyone's just so ungrateful to her--whether they're mourning the eggs she broke

to make the omelet of Libyan or Iraqi freedom, peace, and prosperity or trying to keep her from losing the Presidency like they lost the House and Senate

[Act_of_Reparation]

12. Yeah, wow. That Libyan and Iraqi Freedom... that worked out well.

AMIRITE?

Such a tasty, tasty omelette. Sure, my cousin wound up a cloud of red mist on some nameless road in the middle of a desert shithole eight thousand miles away from home, but you gotta break eggs, right? His daughter can't miss him if she never knew him!

[cpwm17]

6. Hillary supporters don't care about this stuff.

They don't consider the Iraqis, and brown people in other victim nations, as worthy of notice. Their lives don't matter, and the people that care about this stuff are the extremists.

[SamKnause]

7. I agree.

I am trying to figure out exactly what they do care about.

[Gene Debs]

14. Don't you get it!? She's vaguely awesome!

[AlbertCat]

124. She's vaguely awesome!

LOL

Perfect!

[seabeyond]

15. You are wrong. But, it does not matter. It is so much more fun for you all to caricature

Clinton supporters of LUVIN' killin' those babies, kinda like the right like to state that Dems LOVE to abort their babies.

When you present such lopsided argument, do not expect reasoned conversation. You have made that impossible.

[phazed0]

137. But it does matter..

Because we're all wondering, if Hillary supporters care about these issues.. why are they voting for Hillary and not Bernie? History shows clinton gets you all these formentioned things. Bernie is the one guy that has my last hope. I've been watching him since 2001 and he has always been a voice of reason; the one of too few voices, of sane opposition, in a F*ed up system.

[seabeyond]

141. Sanders is selling a con and it is being bought. Sanders would be jumping into war and

shooting off drones, but you all want to argue that he is pure as snow. One vote. Out of all the military votes he was for, you have one mere vote. And it is not even all of the conflict. One vote of many votes, in the conflict.... One, he voted no to.

Why discuss? The brainwash is in, and the belief is Sanders will not go to war or even bother with foreign affair, because well, it just does not interest him.

He has supported, he has back, he has protected, the military complex interest.

I find it hypocritical.

[Hiraeth]

153. I want quotes from Bernie and links to your research showing exactly HOW you PROVE that

Bernie Sanders is a CON, would JUMP into WAR and SHOOT off DRONES.

you find him hypocritical? what then, do you find HILLARY?

[pantsonfire]

168. It is, those folks should educated themselves on his votes, but...

I at least realize he no a unicorn shooting out rainbows, he's made compromises because that's what politicians' do (well maybe not anymore). Those that think he's the messiah are not looking at him correctly, he's a politician, though being the longest serving independent in American history sets him apart distinctively. Onto war....

He supported the f-35 project because of jobs they provided in Vermont (yes, not very progressive), for the operation in Kosovo to stop the genocide, for the war in Afghanistan, and....you can help me here.

Comparing him with Clinton, I think objectively, she would be more inclined to go to war not because of her Iraq vote only, but because she understands that our military industrial complex and country makes billions off weapons sales. The Clinton Foundation's donors benefited, while Clinton was SoS, billions in arms deals....

The Saudi transaction is just one example of nations and companies that had donated to the Clinton Foundation seeing an increase in arms deals while Hillary Clinton oversaw the State Department. IBT found that between October 2010 and September 2012, State approved $165 billion in commercial arms sales to 20 nations that had donated to the foundation, plus another $151 billion worth of Pentagon-brokered arms deals to 16 of those countries—a 143 percent increase over the same time frame under the Bush Administration. The sales boosted the military power of authoritarian regimes such as Qatar, Algeria, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, and Oman, which, like Saudi Arabia, had been criticized by the department for human rights abuses.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/05/hillary-clinton-foundation-state-arms-deals

[eShirl]

171. wtf

[PatrynXX]

17. all they care is what Sex is going to the whitehouse

Or it seems. Hey if they had actually thought that they woulda voted for Sarah Palin in droves. Because Sarah might not be very bright but she isn't dangerous like Donald . If she some how beats the odds (and the odds are very much against her) and wins in November I don't see her running longer than 4 yrs. Because Someone will have figured out how to properly harness the Bernie energy provided of course this plays out the way DWS wants it played out this year and either we have Republicans in 4 yrs or she loses her own Primary. I don't particularly care that Bernie ran against Obama in 2012. That is American. He did nothing wrong he did it by the book. And he'll continue to do things but the American rule book until he can't see a way to win. And right now I see a 50 /50 odds .


Am I supposed to put a disclaimer here. This is my opinion . Politically correct run amok requires a disclaimer X_X oddly most people who actually get to know me say I'm one of the funniest cool guys they know. Good I've done my job I like to see people smile. Hard to do this when your being attacked however. So far MSNBC has lost me forever. Huffingtonpost is dead (AOL) and I read more news now online.

[pangaia]

65. For some.. a first woman president.. not all, of course..

very possibly not even a majority.. but TOO many...

As much as I would truly LOVE to see a woman president.... she ain't the one.

[SamKnause]

66. I too would like to see a woman president.

I just don't want the first woman president to be Hillary.

[greymouse]

76. I want the first woman President to be competent and ethical

So, not Hillary.

[SamKnause]

81. I want the first woman president to have good judgment and morals.

[AlbertCat]

125. And for WAY too many...

..... it's the name they recognize. She'll be just like Bill!!!!

[pangaia]

126. Right, that.

I don't want yet another disaster capitalist.

"Iraq was a great business opportunity."

HA! Not if you're dead, it's not.

[LiberalArkie]

89. Results

On Mon Mar 21, 2016, 06:27 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Hillary supporters don't care about this stuff.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=342048

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Nothing but flame bait based on the poster's lies. There is absolutely nothing to support such a depraved assessment of HRC's supporters. This garbage posting needs to stop.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Mar 21, 2016, 06:33 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Disgusting. -Agschmid
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's an opinion and it's not a TOS violation
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: A supporter should stand behind their candidate, especially something as important as war.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: A bit too cynical.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It is an opinion not directed at anyone specifically.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[cpwm17]

104. Thank you.

It's outrageous that the Democratic Party is nominating a warmonger, one whose friend and adviser is Henry Kissinger, the world's worst living mass-murderer. This is extremely serious stuff with severe consequences.

[NNadir]

99. I cared a hell of a lot more about Iraqis than the last "progressive" hero.

While Ralph Nader was carrying on about officiating at NBA playoff games, I was out in the freezing cold in NYC protesting the plan to start a war.

In general, my impression of so called "progressives" is that they're pretty smug and self congratulatory, but short on action.

I expect that if Trump becomes President, these same assholes will blame the Democrats for whatever wars he starts, since they had to temerity to not worship their latest hero.

I've already had lots of conversations with former "progressive" Naderites who said that the period between 2000 and 2008 was all the Democrats fault for choosing Al Gore as their candidate.

You may call us racists all you want, but decidedly most of the so called "progressive" types I hear from are bourgeois, clueless and very, very, very, very self absorbed.

[ladjf]

147. It appears to me that the Hillary supporters avoid all thought about anything

of substance.

[Fast Walker 52]

149. they sure as hell run away from anything like this that shows how terrible her decisions are

and how bad her policies and general attitude have been.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

178. Naw

They just turn the other cheek

So they can attack Bernie supporters for being

Just for being.

[closeupready]

188. +1000. Sickening.

[zeemike]

9. It doesn't matter

She is a woman and if elected would be the first woman POTUS
And to many that is the only thing that matters.

It sounds stupid and child like but that is the state of politics in this country today.

[Gene Debs]

16. Then they would presumably have been just as happy with Carly Fiorina.

[-none]

189. Only if Carly had a (D) by her name.

Look at Debbie (D) and her support of Republicans over Democrats. No big deal to them.

[mindwalker_i]

29. I actually think having a woman president would be good for society

It's a glass ceiling broken. However, there are more important things to have in a president, like not wanting to start wars that aren't necessary. Honesty. Reversing the increase of the wealth gap is huge.

[A Simple Game]

70. Hillary if elected President would probably guarantee

that no other woman is elected President for another 50 years.

[zeemike]

97. Me too.

But not just any woman. Originally I had my hopes set on Warren, but I suspect there was only room for one woman in the party and Hillary had the power.

Breaking a glass ceiling only to get more war and more wealth gap is not worth it.

[mindwalker_i]

105. Agreed

If Warren had run, I'd be all over that!

[yallerdawg]

11. You lost me.

This isn't Bush and Cheney's war?

[PatrynXX]

18. how should I know. Cheney thinks Hillary is great

so I guess Cheney isn't a bad guy anymore???

[pnwmom]

21. And the NRA has helped Bernie out in a pinch.

So I guess the NRA isn't bad anymore?

[PatrynXX]

25. something like that...

although comparing a War Criminal to one guy who doesn't listen to his own members . Hey VT voters wanted the law passed let Bernie know that and thus he voted the way the voters wanted him to vote. Jawdrop I guess that is unheard of. Gosh then that explains why we have this absurd jail in Cuba still opens. we wanted it out there but thats okay because the Poltiicians want to keep it there.

[Duval]

63. This is the second time you've made me smile today! Good job! eom

[Kalidurga]

35. Did they hold a fund raiser for him.

Seems to be a lot of silence on the gun issue since this.

https://theintercept.com/2016/03/01/nra-lobbyist-will-co-host-clinton-fundraiser/

[pnwmom]

49. No, and the NRA didn't hold one for Hillary either.

A lobbyist held the fundraiser, not the NRA.

Did you know that lobbyists work for many clients at a time? And that the same lobbyist that works for the NRA could work for Planned Parenthood, for example? Just like a lawyer has many different clients with different interests, so do lobbyists.

But this is typical of the Bernie smear campaign against Hillary, relying on people's ignorance.

[billhicks76]

41. Wow. Hopeless

You remind me of a lyric by Bob Dylan. "Take the dark out of the nighttime...and paint the daytime black." Or any Orwellian quote. War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.

[yallerdawg]

47. This is why fringy extremism always loses.

This was Bush and Cheney's war. The junior senator from New York had no more power over this outcome than Sander's vote did.

Blaming this war on Hillary is nuts!

End of story!

[choie]

52. End of story my ass -she freakin voted for it - she owns it!

what the hell don't you understand? Whether they would have gone to war without the resolution or not, she voted for it! You are an apologist for a vote that was unconscionable...

[yallerdawg]

58. I won't waste my time explaining what she voted for again!

It has been explained and repeatedly ignored for years now.

We'll just let the voters explain it to you!

[choie]

61. and the explanations have been

utter and complete bullshit. I don't give a crap how many voters vote for her - they, like you, are apologists.

[merrily]

133. Bearing in mind that, as EVERY lawyer learns in law school in first year,

that "whereas" clauses have no legal effect whatsoever, she voted to give Bush sole discretion to go war, full stop. All else is bull puckie kabuki.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c107:1:./temp/~c107Bd8qdg::

[whathehell]

172. So did John Kerry & I'm betting you voted for him

in 2004 unless you were under age.

[AlbertCat]

130. Blaming this war on Hillary is nuts!

No one has "blamed" the war on Hillary.

They are just stating she voted for it and supported it.

Is English Hillary supporters' 1st language?.... because a lot seem to not understand what words actually mean.

[msongs]

13. bernie has lots of blood on his hands but his votes for killing are good. thanks nt

[zalinda]

20. What votes are that?

Are they all the votes to fund the war, where our soldiers didn't have the equipment to protect themselves, like body armor and armored Humvees? Or should he just let their parents continue to raise funds to buy them the body armor and let the soldiers go root around in junk fields and weld metal to the Humvees to make them safer?

Wow, really! She votes for the fucking war and you blame him for voting to take care of our soldiers. Tells me exactly what is wrong with her supporters.

Z

[zalinda]

27. Oh, and he made sure that the vets

were taken care of when he attached a rider to a bill for them.

Z

[stupidicus]

87. you mean the ones you can't identify or that are gross/dishonest false equivalencies?

eom

[Fuddnik]

19. Please Hillary, forget my birthday.

And I don't want any gifts at Xmas either, thank you.

I never could find a good use for white phosphorous.

[zebonaut]

22. Hillary: The Goldwater Girl "progressive" who may put an effing Republican on the ticket

[MariaThinks]

24. i doubt that but continue attacking Hillary for something that is 50 years old

[MariaThinks]

23. letting a repuglican in the white house will create more death like you're exposing in iraq

Hillary did not invade Iraq, her vote would not have changed the outcome.

Iraq was caused by bush and the imbecile republicans who were allowed to steal office, partly by the close vote count caused by nader supporters. A Gore presidency would have been far better than a bush one, and more people would be alive today.

[zalinda]

28. More Democrats in Florida voted for Bush, than voted for Nader, blame them. eom

[Fuddnik]

31. Get off the Nader crap.

It was stolen because the CURRENT Chair of the Florida Democratic Party worked for ChoicePoint when they were purging over 80,000 eligible, probably democratic voters, from the rolls for Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris.

And as a bonus prize, her husband was lead counsel in the Bush v Gore case. On the Bush side!

And people wonder why we're stuck with DINO's like Debbie Disaster and Bill Nelson.

[abelenkpe]

32. Hillary's vote wouldn't change the outcome?

As an elected official she couldn't have done more to stop the unnecessary war we were lied into?

If her vote couldn't change our course towards war then why say one person's vote in the general will change the election? I don't understand why anyone thinks guilting people into supporting their candidate will do anything other than drive them away altogether. That type of response will bring about your feared election loss more than you're misplaced belief that Nader lost the election for democrats.

[billhicks76]

39. Ridiculous

The media is culpable. As our the citizens who supported. As are those who didn't protest against in the streets what was being done in our name. If you think a senators vote didn't after then there is absolutely so hope for you or your ilk.

[Lorien]

46. That's why I won't vote for Hillary. I don't want another republican

in the white house, and she's to the Right of Bush and McCain on many issues.

[RiverNoord]

120. Um... I think you may be utterly misevaluating the likely future.

And, really? Nader again? I like Al Gore, a great deal, but his campaign was very weak. I can't recall how many times I steamed at the TV screen 'right there! For God's sake attack the bastard!'

And his weak campaign made it possible to lose to a spoiled frat boy alcoholic whose daddy always kept him safe from the consequences of his reckless behavior.

You do realize that Bill Clinton would not have become President in 1992 without the candidacy of Ross Perot, right? I don't know how old you are, but that's how things played out. And even then, the sexual misconduct scandals almost sunk him.

Me, well, I like a little bit of actual democracy from time to time. The implications of the alternative are much, much worse than the difference than the question of how many wars Donald Trump would start as compared to Hillary Clinton. Especially given that I think you've got it backwards.

[IdaBriggs]

122. Bummer that her lack of LEADERSHIP didn't slow it down.

Or was she just completely clueless, thus displaying her infamous BAD JUDGMENT.

[Phlem]

160. Nader?

Again. Amazing. That's all ya'll got. I must of read about this 5 times in the last 2 days.

Try the Thirdway.

Nader, WTF?

[Thespian2]

26. What I don't understand

is why any thoughtful human being would vote for Her Royal Highness? Especially after looking at the horror she helped create...

[missingthebigdog]

78. What I don't understand is your definition of "thoughtful human being."

Somewhere in the neighborhood of FIVE MILLION people have chosen to vote for Hillary so far in the primaries. Do you believe that none of these people are "thoughtful human beings?" Do you think they are all on her payroll, or have been brainwashed somehow?

There can be no real discussion, no real debate, as long as there is no mutual respect.

I like Bernie. I will vote for him if he gets the nomination. I am not supporting him now because I honestly believe Hillary is the better candidate. I believe her experience is more relevant to the presidency than his, and I believe that her goals are achievable.

If she "helped create" the horror in the OP's pictures, so did a lot of other people, Bernie included. We would have gone to war without her vote, just as we did without his. The war would have been funded without his vote, but he voted to fund it anyway.

I am amazed that this war, which we have spent years blasting Bush, Cheney et al. for (rightfully so), has suddenly become entirely the fault of Hillary Clinton. A thoughtful human being would know better.

[chervilant]

96. Really?

"A thoughtful human being would know better"?!?

Millions of people are voting for Trump. Does that mean his supporters are "thoughtful" human beings?

And, if you want to know the extent to which the M$M can "brainwash" people, you should read about Edward Bernays, or watch "The Century of the Self."

You can continue to cling to your perspective of Hi11ary, and justify your support in whatever way works for you. Just don't expect me, or virtually any other Bernie supporter, to understand how you can support her. It's nothing short of astonishing how many people think she's "the better candidate."

[Thespian2]

115. astonishing...

[Thespian2]

114. logical reasoning

[peacebird]

30. But but but she's adefender of women and children!

Unless they happen to live in the Middle East.

[Kalidurga]

37. Or the Honduras

[peacebird]

40. Or on welfare in the USA....

[Kalidurga]

42. Yep

I am having a hard time seeing where she has been good for women or children.

[-none]

190. Or other living things.

[LonePirate]

33. And here I thought Bush and Cheney were responsible for the war with Iraq. Silly me!

History is being re-written faster than it can be read!

[billhicks76]

36. Take Responsibility

Votes count. This isn't rocket science.

[Cheese Sandwich]

44. Did Bush and Cheney put those words in her mouth?

[LonePirate]

50. Pres candidates talking about freedom and diplomats advocating for U.S. businesses is de rigeuer.

None of this uncommon or unusual, let alone surprising.

[Cheese Sandwich]

53. Do you agree with this?

we have to make clear to the Iraqis that they have been given the greatest gift that a human being can give another human being – the gift of freedom

Makes me physically ill.

She said that in 2008, long after it was clear the war was based on lies and the scale of the tragedy was mostly known. After Abu Ghraib even.

[yallerdawg]

84. Do you have any idea who Saddam Hussein was?

You all keep ignoring the barbarous genocidal maniacs we helped put in power and allowed to stay in power even after committing atrocious war crimes.

Fortunately, most Americans don't get caught up in revisionist history.

Obama was "the hope and change" candidate when America was looking for a change!

Most people today are pretty much content with more of the same. Hillary is the candidate.

[OldArtilleryMan]

140. Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator that ruled with an iron fist.

However, Iraq had something of an economy. The Sunni and Shiites were living in peace with each other and were intermarrying. There was no ethnic cleansing or killing of the other sect. All that is gone.
There would be no Isis now if we had not invaded and deposed Hussein.

[PaulaFarrell]

167. most americans are ignorant of history, even recent

Few know that we along with the Uk supplied Saddam with the chemicals for his chemical weapons. And you seem to think we helped put him in power, and that is not correct

Yes he was a very bad man - as a country we don't have a problem with that- Uzbekistan anyone? But the country was on its knees due to a decade of sanctions and posed no threat to anyone. Are you proposing we invade every country with a vicious dictatorship and "free" them?

If you think most people are content you must not get out much amongst people

[LonePirate]

85. I recognize that it is standard political propaganda which I ignore and then move on.

[chervilant]

91. Your sarcasm is neither amusing

nor warranted. If you did not watch the videos herein above, you have no idea how disgusting is Hi11ary's assertion.

I get that you're a Hi11ary supporter. However, I just don't understand how ANYONE can support her.

[LonePirate]

94. So my vote for Bernie this past month makes me a Hillary supporter?

Some people simply cannot see past their own irrational hate it would seem.

[chervilant]

98. Irrational hate?

Wow. Way to ramp up a defensive response...

You came across as a Hi11ary supporter. So glad you voted for Bernie.

[LonePirate]

102. When the Hillary hatred has reached a fevered pitch like among some people, it is indeed irrational.

[chervilant]

107. I do not hate Hi11ary.

I simply do not believe she would prevail if she becomes the Democratic nominee. Too many people dislike her, and too many people think she's a liar.

Also, I am disgusted with the Democratic Party du jour. It bears little resemblance to the Party of my youth. DWS and the DNC are examples of just how bad it's gotten.

Time for a change. Feeling the BERN!!!

#NotMeUs

[PaulaFarrell]

166. bush, Cheney and everyone who voted for it n/t

[billhicks76]

34. Omg. The Look Of Death. Something Not Right

[Ferd Berfel]

38. Yea, that's about as tone deaf as you can get

Point Cheese Sandwich

[lastone]

43. I'll be shocked if this doesn't get flagged and voted down

No questioning the anointed one - even here on an "open" forum!

[zentrum]

45. K&R

[desmiller]

51. Jesus, the horror.

[Cheese Sandwich]

59. source for image

Her eyes do look very cold but apparently the picture is real. It was featured prominently in the Atlantic magazine

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/05/hillary-and-the-burden-of-clintonism/392609/

[Lorien]

142. She's creepy as f*ck

Now I need to find some kitten pics to use as mental floss.

[chapdrum]

54. Are we being punished for

something we have forgotten to do?

Why we must we endure (let alone vote for) people as the Clintons and Bushes?

[Arugula Latte]

155. The beatings will continue until attitudes improve.

Now, accept your neocon/DLC/Third Way/Republican/Wall St./corporate shill candidate with enthusiasm, dammit!

[Jack Rabbit]

55. We've known all along that the war was a "business opportunity" for Americans

I was hoping the video would have contained the statement in the graphic. I would like to hear her say it. Is her tone and inflection as bad as I imagine it? "we have to make clear to the Iraqis" sounds threatening, like there might be a reason to suppose that the "gift of freedom" isn't really a gift one would want Santa Claus to bring.

Perhaps this is all perplexing, but what is most perplexing is how Mrs. Clinton sees Iraqis not has humans but as "business opportunities."

[upaloopa]

56. I am a Vietnam veteran. I believe we all did terrible things in that war.

Humans have not evolved enough to live on this earth in peace.

Some of us are thrown into the conflicts. I was drafted.

Our lives are not totally defined by those things. I think people should not judge my life by that war and what I did there.

It is good that you have the space to judge Hillary as you do. At least you aren't putting yellow ribbons on your car.

Bernie is not going to be a better commander in chief because of how he voted on the IWR.

Hillary isn't going to be a bad commander in chief because of her vote. Things time and people change

[Cheese Sandwich]

62. This isn't just about the vote. It is about disgusting and offensive comments and general attitude

of disregard for human life and suffering, especially of darker skinned foreign people, which I find racist. And then two years later selling it as a chance for corporations to make bank, that was also sickening.

[chapdrum]

75. Agreed.

Her cynicism is seen as rational pragmatism.

Too bad so many of her supporters share that.

[Duval]

57. And her influence was and is nauseating.

Cheese Sandwich, we NEED to know these things and I appreciate your effort getting this out there. Thank you.

[sulphurdunn]

60. Do Hillary supporters ever read these posts, especially

the actual quotes of their candidate before setting up their straw men and red herrings? She either doubled down on her support for the Iraq War by calling it a gift of freedom, paid for with American blood to the Iraqi people, and got all condescending by suggesting they use the gift wisely, or she did not. Then she told the money boys on Wall Street that the catastrophe she voted for was a business opportunity, or she did not. If she did, and she did, that is fucking disgusting and not spinnable. So quit trying. She keeps telling you what she is. Listen to her. Then go puke.

[Cheese Sandwich]

64. I don't understand how anyone tries to defend this.

That's why I said, hopefully we can all agree this is offensive and disgusting.

We should all be able to agree on that at least.

[chapdrum]

68. They evidently don't read these posts

nor likely, much care to.

People as the Clintons and Bushes have done (and do) their part to keep us accustomed to the "war&quot s) they bring upon u$.

Let the little people (whom our legislation has reduced to choosing the military as their most viable job hope) fight and die for fossil fuel, and the further enrichment of stateless sociopaths like those many found in the Bush Jr. "administration."

[Dont call me Shirley]

67. Looking at the pics of the children with horrendous birth defects because of the contents of the

bombs used by the us military, no Hilary we do not want the gifts you have given the Iraqis. Take them back. Put your ugly genies back in the bottle. Take your genocidal "gifts" back.

And Obama thinks another trillion of "small nukes" is a great idea! WTF is wrong with these people?! WTF! WTF! WTF!

[Cary]

69. So much noise.

[Carolina]

71. I heartily agree

What this nation has done TO the Iraqi people is unforgiveable; and those who aided, abetted and defended such action are reprehensible.

As I have posted elsewhere and will state again. What was and remains unfathomable to me was how any alleged Democratic 'leader' could vote for IWR and herewith are just a few reasons:

Reason 1: Iraq did not attack the US; fifteen of the nineteen hijackers were Saudis while the other four were from the UAE, Egypt, Yemen. They learned to fly here in the States (Florida, Arizona). Bin Laden was also Saudi!

Reason 2: Iraq had been under horrific UN sanctions since the first Bush war on Iraq in 1991; so how could it have morphed into an imminent threat to the US in 2002 when IWR was being peddled

Reason 3: W's administration introduced IWR and demanded a vote on it right before the 2002 midterm elections. Wise men questioned the timing and the rush but not those who voted aye... they had their eyes on being POTUS and cast calculating votes that reeked of political and moral cowardice.

Reason 4: Anyone who was paying attention knew about PNAC and therefore knew how the Bush cabal and Carlyle group had their eyes on carving up Iraq's oil fields. Clinton sure knew because the signers of PNAC policy papers wrote him seeking pre-emptive action while he was POTUS. And Kerry should have questioned pre-emptive war since he served in and then questioned Vietnam. He also should have questioned anything pushed by the Bushes because he had been part of the Senate investigation into Iran-Contra... about which the elder Bush as VP and former CIA chief claimed the big lie of having been "out of the loop."

Reason 5: the Bush cabal STOLE the White House in 2000 because they had their PNAC plans. Then, they ignored all the warnings/chatter leading up to 9/11 (remember the 8/6/2011 brief). They allege they were blindsided and could not have foreseen such an attack, but that flies in the face of the fact that the airspace had to be closed around the G-8 summit in Genoa, Italy in July 2001 which Bushco attended, precisely because of terrorists' threats to fly planes into buildings! So therefore, why would any sentient 'leader' of the opposition party trust or "have good faith" in ANYTHING proposed by W

Reason 6: Anyone who knew history, knew that Reagan sold WMDs to Saddam/Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war (recall the photo of Rumsfeld shaking Saddam's hand). So when Cheney took to the airwaves in 2002 talking about WMDs and said he knew where they were and how they'd been used against the Kurds, he was telling the truth... about 1988. He was using his dirty past to foment a new war for oil

Reason 7: the Bush cabal withdrew the weapons inspectors because they were not finding anything. Scott Ritter (who was smeared) and his fellow inspectors' findings would not/did not conform to the desired Bush narrative, so Colin Bowel sold his soul and did his 'tube' presentation to the UN

Reason 8: Citing the Tet Offensive during the Vietnam War, Robert Byrd gave an eloquent and passionate speech about lies that lead to war, about the waste of war, about the unintended consequences of war... and he challenged the rush to war. Bob Graham and Ted Kennedy spoke as well. Why didn't other Democratic 'leaders' listen to them rather than to Bush or Cheney? Through their aye votes, they gave Bush bipartisan cover and therefore, they have blood on their hands, too

Clearly the rationale for IWR was all a LIE, and if a little old Jane Q Citizen like me (along with thousands of other citizens) could see all this, why not Biden, Clinton, Dodd, Edwards and Kerry?! They all voted aye, they all ran for POTUS and they all lost. I held my nose and voted for Kerry-Edwards in 2004 because they were better than Bush, but it was unnerving to watch and listen to Kerry's meandering justifications when he was called out on his aye vote.

So in 2008, there was no way I was going to support HRC precisely because of her IWR vote. Votes have consequences as do the ghastly speeches justifying such awful votes. There is no apology large enough, no justification valid enough to cover a cowardly, finger-in-the-wind vote that has caused so much death, debt, destruction and destabilization! That women should never be president.

[Cryptoad]

73. News Flash: Hillary to blame for Everything teh GOP has done

the last 50 years,,,,, geeeez....
This Trashing of a potential Democratic Nominee should be removed

[chapdrum]

79. Better yet, Hillary should

do the country and the rest of the world a favor, and remove herself from the race.

She's been largely complicit with what the Repugs have done; she is responsible for her behavior and votes, not the other party.

[Cryptoad]

83. Those that want to Trash

potential democratic nominees should be removed .
Time to bring back the Democratic in DU!

[SylviaD]

176. Hear, hear! nt

[greymouse]

74. My #1 reason is she laughs at people dying.

[Cheese Sandwich]

93. this makes sense too. nt

[JonLeibowitz]

159. I have never once seen a Hillary supporter address that video.

I think some of us have started noticing that.

[Babel_17]

77. It's bigger than any candidate

The New York Times deciding that the tenth anniversary of the Iraq War wasn't special enough for a major retrospective, that highlighted a serious problem in our country.

The lives lost matter, the faking of a casus belli matters, refusing to deal with the reality of its implications matters.

http://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2013/03/iraq-wars-10th-anniversary-the-invasion/100475/

But yeah, anyone running for President needs to be heard regarding this. Jeb! was compelled to speak his piece. It was found to be basically nonsense, and now he's gone.

[stupidicus]

86. it's amazing how much support a neocon has found in the dem party

not

this ain't your dad's dem party anymore, but it is finally moving back in that direction

[sus453]

88. K, R. and . . .

Agreed.

[cantbeserious]

90. Thank You For Sharing These Truths

I hope we can all agree that HRC's attitude toward Citizens around the world has been disgusting and offensive.

[certainot]

92. meanwhile we allow 90 major universities continue to support 260

of the loudest limbaugh stations - stations that were essential to lying us into war and tried hard to get us into iran, and now continue to blast the country with pro trump republican racism and global warming denial.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

95. Change Freedom to Anarchy she'd be right.

[NurseJackie]

101. HA! :-D It's not working. Time's running out. Tick-tock! :-P

[Cheese Sandwich]

106. 1) What's wrong with you?

2) wtf are are talking about? What's not working?

[nichomachus]

103. Up is down, right is left, tyranny is freedom

That woman is a menace to world peace.

[ozone_man]

108. I would expect those words from Bush.

But really, shouldn't Democrats be held to a higher standard? The Clinton wing of the party is indistinguishable from the establishment Republicans. We can do better. Elect Bernie!

[Cryptoad]

109. reason #353 why I support Hillary

[Perogie]

164. Do the work like reading all the reports that showed invading Iraq was stupid?

Guess she didn't do the work

[KoKo]

112. K&R..

And then Hillary also kept repeating the same policy again and again, in Libya and in Syria, which is ongoing. It wouldn't be much of an exaggeration to say she leaves a trail of destruction everywhere she touches.

And then a couple years later she made these further disgusting comments selling the destruction of Iraq as an opportunity for corporations to profit:

[jwirr]

113. We shall not be forgiven. What ever caused the military to

think that depleted uranium would be safe to use?

[GoneFishin]

116. How cold and arrogant.

[RiverNoord]

117. Wow. That's... wow.

That's the most callous and disturbing statement I've ever read made by a Democrat about the Iraq war.

[BeanMusical]

127. She makes me sick.

[fbc]

129. She really thinks like that.

[liberal N proud]

138. Which one was #1?

[RoccoR5955]

143. +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000! n.t.

[cui bono]

144. She said that in 2008?!?!?!

SMH

.

[ladjf]

145. That statement by Clinton is a borderline psycho thought. It is an extreme case of

tone deafness. She had better hope that no one does tell the Iraqi people what she said.

[EndElectoral]

148. yeah, even with all the lying, the pandering, the Wall St. connections, this is the deal breaker...

[whereisjustice]

151. But her pluckiness means it's all worthwhile.

[davidthegnome]

157. Some hard truths here.

Some times the truth is just plain ugly. I don't know what Clinton's motivations were for voting in favor of the IWR - and later the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Does anyone here recall how harsh our sanctions and years of bombing already were? We had thousands of children already being born deformed. We had thousands of people already sick, dying, dead, or living in misery. We had already brought that Nation to it's knees.

They did not want to fight. They were not responsible for 9/11 - Saddam and Bin Laden hated each other. There were no ties proven, there were no weapons of mass destruction... folks, there was NO smoking gun - and the available documentation at the time indicated that. The inspectors asking for more time indicated that. The millions of us here and abroad protesting indicated that. Those of us who knew what was already going on in that Country... the massive suffering already taking place... we knew this wasn't just a bad call, but let's call it what it is, a crime against humanity. The slaughter of people who didn't want to fight us, who didn't even have the power to effectively work against us or harm us... who were already suffering from the results of a massive military and economic defeat.

We took a place like hell... and somehow, we made it even worse. We looked at a people who were already suffering - and inflicted still greater suffering upon them. There is no excuse, no rationale, no justification that makes sense. The only thing I believe we can do here is apologize... profusely and create a government that focuses on diplomacy and humanitarian efforts over ignorance, hatred, war and threats of war.

Freedom... ultimately, must be earned - and it must be earned by those desiring it. It cannot be given, for what can be given can be taken away. The absolute worst thing we could have done was precisely what we did. You cannot "create freedom" in a sovereign Nation by invading it and forcing the issue of so called democracy, when our own democracy is so deeply flawed it is an honest question as to whether it is actually an oligarchy, or, simply put, a Nation truly owned and governed by the 1%, corporations, and the power of the almighty dollar.

Everyone who voted in favor of the IWR, who voiced support for that war, who promoted it... they did not perform their due diligence. They did not know what the hell was going on - if they had, there is no way they would have voted to do it, I can't honestly believe they would have. Not if they were actual human beings who bled and cried and cared. The saddest thing of it is - the same people who were ignorant then are ignorant now.

What happened there was not freedom. It was, and remains a deep tragedy. It remains a crime committed by one sovereign Nation against another - yet there is no powerful coalition of Nations, nor a super power to hold us accountable.

[YOHABLO]

158. This is the neo liberal establishment mindset. We gave you freedom .. you owe us.

HA what a bunch of .....!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

162. So we offer up blood sacrifices to,....who again?

[Betty Karlson]

165. Not JUST the one toward Iraq. But agreed: this one is pretty bad.

[Promethean]

173. I am sure MIC bribes

seasoned with the blood of the innocent are delicious when you have no soul.

[Gamecock Lefty]

175. I File this Under - "Who Cares?"

[artyteacher]

177. bush lied to her and all of us.

She and the world are Bush's victims.

Stop blaming the victims

[chervilant]

186. On a bus to DC to protest

the illegal invasion of Iraq, I first learned about depleted uranium. The bus full of activists had a lively discussion about the depleted uranium video we had just watched, and most of us agreed that we had never heard of this strange weapon.

Oh, and Dick Cheney colluded with Pappy Bush to use depleted uranium during the 1991 Gulf War:

During the early aerial bombardment and later tank war, President Bush and Secretary Cheney authorized the use of massive amounts of depleted uranium armaments for the first time in the history of warfare. This material is produced only by the United States and had been used experimentally in Vietnam and the 1973 Israel-Arab War. Internal Department of Defense reports had warned since 1943 about its use, and accurately predicted its poison gas effects on our troops.

The Most Toxic Battle In Western Military History

In his article, “The Gulf War Was The Most Toxic Battle In Western Military History,” Dr. Malcolm Hooper, emeritus professor of medicinal chemistry at the University of Sunderland UK, attributes the symptoms of mysterious “Gulf War Illness” among American and coalition troops to a combination of toxic substances to which they were subjected.

These included, in addition to weapons of mass destruction, experimental vaccines, anti-nerve gas tablets, aerosolized pesticides, and smoke from hundreds of burning oil wells. Some of the vaccines were not approved by the FDA and had never been used on human subjects. No one had studied the interactive effects of as many as seventeen vaccines administered at the same time. Many soldiers became violently ill immediately after receiving the battery of shots and others developed a variety of symptoms later. Strangely, the normally bureaucratic military kept no records of who received what shots and when.

However, most researchers cite radioactive poisoning from depleted uranium shells as the deadliest element in the Gulf War Illness “cocktail.” In the 1991 war the Pentagon fired more than 340 tons of DU projectiles at targets in Iraq and Kuwait. More than a half million Gulf era veterans are on medical disability.

(For more on this travesty, go here.)

[raouldukelives]

187. I'm just not cut out to be a Kissinger Democrat. nt

[IdaBriggs]

191. My neighbors are Iraqi refugees.

They are shocked at what a mess the whole situation there STILL is and they KNOW because they have family there.

She should be ashamed.

[sammythecat]

193. Yes!

I agree that Hillary Clinton's attitude toward Iraq has been disgusting and offensive. From beginning to end. And "We came, we saw, and he died" didn't make me laugh either.

Yes. Disgusting and offensive.

[Bill USA]

194. welcome D. Trump to the White House....

[dchill]

196. She's an authoritarian sociopath.

But other than that, nice kid.