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Everything we think we know about addiction is wrong. (Original Post) passiveporcupine Oct 2015 OP
The opposite of addiction is not sobriety.... Chiquitita Oct 2015 #1
Perfect. I can get into insular places and need to reach out to prevent self-meds.... erronis Oct 2015 #2
So very true. From one who is caged. nt ThingsGottaChange Oct 2015 #3
And this is quite a statement on our prison system passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #4
My grandson is struggling to stop using. He is not isolated. jwirr Oct 2015 #5
I personally think most addictions passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #8
Thank you. I just showed this video to my daughter who jwirr Oct 2015 #24
He needs some good trauma therapy. He must learn to love himself again. Dont call me Shirley Oct 2015 #11
Thank you. That could easily be a very good idea. His father jwirr Oct 2015 #25
I send him healing energies. Dont call me Shirley Oct 2015 #29
Thank you. I have bookmarked this thread and will send jwirr Oct 2015 #30
THAT'S IT! Duppers Oct 2015 #36
It's the most remarkable tool for healing... Dont call me Shirley Oct 2015 #40
See below. Addiction is WAY more complex than this video asserts. n/t TygrBright Oct 2015 #17
You can be in a crowd of people, the center of attention, and still feel isolated. jeff47 Oct 2015 #22
Again good advice. When I think about it he is the one who jwirr Oct 2015 #26
This was known more than 20 years ago. -none Oct 2015 #6
Brilliant! Thanks for posting this... haikugal Oct 2015 #7
I've said this for years. Healthy people don't seek out drugs to do to numb out. Warpy Oct 2015 #9
Amen to this whole thread. LiberalLoner Oct 2015 #14
Beautifully accurate! Dont call me Shirley Oct 2015 #10
No. It isn't. It is beautiful. But not accurate. See below. n/t TygrBright Oct 2015 #16
Everything we know is wrong? bvar22 Oct 2015 #12
Thank you. You're way more succinct than I am. Wish I could rec this reply. n/t TygrBright Oct 2015 #15
"...10% of our population has this genetic pre-disposition for addiction." < At least. n/t jtuck004 Oct 2015 #31
I agree....."at least 10%, probably way more if other compulsive behaviors are included , bvar22 Oct 2015 #38
"science has no test (yet) to measure..." < oddly, they have many answers which provide a steady jtuck004 Oct 2015 #39
It's over-simplified, only partially accurate. TygrBright Oct 2015 #13
very good post passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #18
Excellent post. bvar22 Oct 2015 #19
Thanks! TygrBright Oct 2015 #20
I would rather be a junkie... bvar22 Oct 2015 #23
HAH! And that's the other part of what's incomplete about this, to be sure... n/t TygrBright Oct 2015 #28
Yes, genetics play a major role in addiction, as do trauma and conditioning. At the inner most core Dont call me Shirley Oct 2015 #21
I love the Rat Park explanation. The only thing wrong with it is valerief Oct 2015 #27
The idea of addiction is like obsession, too. Sometimes, obsession is good. valerief Oct 2015 #32
I Can Attest To That. Basic LA Oct 2015 #33
Alternet japple Oct 2015 #34
K&R Joe Shlabotnik Oct 2015 #35
Bookmarking to watch later robbob Oct 2015 #37

Chiquitita

(752 posts)
1. The opposite of addiction is not sobriety....
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:15 PM
Oct 2015

...the opposite of addition, is connection! Love it. Thanks for posting.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
5. My grandson is struggling to stop using. He is not isolated.
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:45 PM
Oct 2015

When he started using he was the playmaker on a sports team. He was needed. The other students loved him. He isolated himself.

He has always had a large supportive family that support him even when we know he is using. He has a good job but unfortunately half of his fellow workers are also users.

He just got married to a girl he loves and he has his children from another relationship with him because he is more reliable than their mother.

At one time he was a very popular rapper and we were all proud of him.

So what is his problem?

I actually think that this video is correct but what is happening with my grandson? He is in treatment and most of the time he is actively trying to stop and is straight. Then he goes to work and he is off the wagon again.

One problem I think might be the answer to my question is that as he was growing up he was his addicted father's scapegoat. And even today when the father is not a part of the family he still rails at him all the time. His father is identifying himself in his son.

I would be very interested in your comments. Thank you.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
8. I personally think most addictions
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:00 PM
Oct 2015

are caused by some internal problem we don't know how to solve. Isolation can do it, as I've discovered living like a hermit, I've become addicted to the internet (not just reddit, but DU and other on-line sources of connecting. I don't even have to participate...just being able to read other people communicating is often enough for me)...but I think other things can cause it too, and many times it's probably related to something from our childhood. In my case it was sexual and emotional abuse from my stepfather...and I have a serious addictive personality. I have to be careful not to binge on food or wine, and now the internet has me trapped.

Has your grandson tried therapy at all? I hope some day he gets this under control and is no longer beleaguered by it, but deep soul pain is pretty hard to heal. It's a lifetime journey, that's for sure.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
24. Thank you. I just showed this video to my daughter who
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:02 PM
Oct 2015

works in a treatment center. And she agrees with my assessment. On thing you said really clicked with me. My whole family have many members who have struggled with various levels of bi-polar for generations. That may very well be the key with my grandson. He was given a mental health assessment when he went into treatment and told to seek further care but so far he has not done that.

I am a bit afraid of psychiatrists because of the drugs they have used on my brother who has severe bi-polar problems. But if he knew for sure we could help him with the ways many of us use to deal with it.

I am also on DU more than I should but the kids got me a kindle to read books and crossword puzzle books and lately one of those adult coloring books that look kind of fun. So I have not been here all the time.

Take care of yourself.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
25. Thank you. That could easily be a very good idea. His father
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:04 PM
Oct 2015

has done everything he could to make him think he is not good.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
22. You can be in a crowd of people, the center of attention, and still feel isolated.
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:42 PM
Oct 2015

Isolation is not measured by the size of the crowd surrounding you.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
26. Again good advice. When I think about it he is the one who
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:06 PM
Oct 2015

does the connecting. He is the initiator. That means that he is still isolating himself when he wants to. Thank you.

-none

(1,884 posts)
6. This was known more than 20 years ago.
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:46 PM
Oct 2015

But too much money is being made fighting the drug wars to stop now.

Warpy

(111,309 posts)
9. I've said this for years. Healthy people don't seek out drugs to do to numb out.
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:01 PM
Oct 2015

I know when I got my life together, I just walked away from the drug scene. It helped that I'd tried everything and failed to find a drug of choice. I had a hell of a lot of company, including cousins my age and most of my friends. The unhealthy, regimented, segregated culture of the 1950s turned most of us to drugs. Slowly, we realized we could break out of that culture and once we did, the drugs were superfluous.

There was absolutely no drama for those of us who got it together, we just sort of drifted into being clean, probably why it wasn't big news, "98% of hopelessly drugged out hippies end up sober!"

I also saw people for years as a nurse who were given opiates after the worst surgeries who didn't want them after the third day, they wanted their brains to work normally, even if they'd enjoyed the buzz the first couple of days. Even in horrific pain, they tried to tough it out. That was borne out in a formal study in Boston in the 1980s, nearly 11,000 people were followed after they'd received heavy opiates in the hospital. Only FOUR developed drug problems.

The DEA has been wrong about everything, relying on 1920s propaganda and poorly researched addiction. The drug war is wrong headed, wasteful, futile, and downright criminal, violating the Fourth Amendment every single day all over this country.

It's time to end this farce. Make drugs legal, sterile, and in reliable dosages. Undercut the black market prices and drive the gangs out of business worldwide. End meddling in other countries' affairs over drugs and end the resentment building up in people all over the planet. Just end it. Now.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
12. Everything we know is wrong?
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:11 PM
Oct 2015

I don't think so.
For 40 years, the medical field hasknow that addiction takes at least two components:
*genetic predispositions to addiction
&
*Exposure



I noticed that genetic predisposition wasn't mentioned in the piece above.

It is estimated that 10% of our population has this genetic pre-disposition for addiction,
which would explain his numbers nicely.

50 years ago, we certainly noticed that some of our returning veterans from VietNam, some who had injected Heroin daily, simply walked away without trouble,
while 10% or so were addicts. The author is not the first one who noticed this. It has been researched for YEARS.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
38. I agree....."at least 10%, probably way more if other compulsive behaviors are included ,
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 02:11 PM
Oct 2015

and those should be included.

The problem with estimating "Genetic Disposition", science has no test (yet) to measure Genetic Predisposition.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
39. "science has no test (yet) to measure..." < oddly, they have many answers which provide a steady
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 04:14 PM
Oct 2015

stream of revenue.

Based on the premise that they can "fix" everyone.

Surely one could not fool an entire country.

TygrBright

(20,763 posts)
13. It's over-simplified, only partially accurate.
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:13 PM
Oct 2015

The causes of addiction are far more complicated than the video, and some of the information is inaccurate.

It's an important video with a good message, but by ignoring the OTHER factors that contribute to addiction, which include:

Physiological vulnerabilities (particular types of brain receptors that function in particular ways) many of which are hereditary (genetic factors); and

Psychological vulnerabilities which may result from traumatic events or experiences that can perhaps be minimized by having everyone live in a human version of "rat park," but can't be eliminated altogether.

In addition to those factors, there are adaptation mechanisms that work differently in people depending on the other complexities-- vulnerability, etc. The brain, among other organs, adapts physiologically to the continuing presence of an addictive substance. Tolerance and dependence are just two obvious examples; fMRI scans suggest a much wider range of effects that contribute to addiction.

And finally there's behavioral conditioning, which is the process of reinforcement over months or years of use of an addictive substance. We develop habits and routines that reinforce use and make change much more difficult.

And all of these factors interact-- someone who's inherited the brain structures that make you vulnerable to alcohol dependence may never actuate the addiction because they have minimal psychological vulnerabilities, are too rarely exposed to alcohol to adapt to it, and/or have healthy behaviors that reinforce not using alcohol in destructive ways.

On the other hand, someone who's inherited none of the brain structures that make you vulnerable to opiate addiction might have a terribly traumatic childhood-- loss of parents in a horrifying accident, an undaignosed, untreated learning disability, etc., and then suffer a severe injury, be exposed to opioids (that 21-day number quoted may be related to a single study, but it's not a magic number at all- shorter exposures have resulted in addiction, and longer exposures have resulted in no addiction) and very quickly adapt and become addicted.

The real tragedy of this wonderful video is that it's partially but very importantly right about one thing: Creating a human version of "rat park" and living in it would greatly reduce (though not eliminate) the numbers of people who become addicted to addictive substances.

But, even MORE important, it would make it so much, much easier for people who do become addicted to establish stable and lasting recovery, because they are right about one thing: Connection is critical. It's the thing that differentiates recovery from abstinence.

Sorry for the rant, but it just produces so much frustration for me when I see such good intentions and excellent resources used to over-simplify and perpetuate further misinformation about addiction.

Everything we know about addiction is NOT wrong. In fact, we're learning more about it now than we ever have, and it's not as simple as this video makes out. The old myths about addiction are terribly damaging, indeed. But creating a new myth, based on this over-simplified wishful thinking, is not the answer to the problems created by those old myths.

The real answer is good science, more research, better information and understanding of the complexities of addiction, PLUS refutation of the destructive old myths and stereotypes that includes good information like "promoting connection and healthy approaches to a whole range of social problems will reduce the incidence and costs of addiction and build strong stable recovery for those who do suffer."

passionately,
Bright

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
18. very good post
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:17 PM
Oct 2015

I agree with everything you've said here.

I still think it's an important part of the message and I'm glad it's here to trigger thought.

I think the whole concept of prison is wrong because it takes away the connection that convicts have with society, and they have to look for new connections inside the prison, many of which are not healthy. And once released, they are still alienated by society (because society never forgives) and a they just cannot handle the isolation. So they go back to drugs or crime.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
19. Excellent post.
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:24 PM
Oct 2015

I was going to include some of these other factors, but decided to keep it simple.
I'm glad you filled it out.
While I wasn't offended by the film above, I found it to be overly simplistic....
and had the potential for getting many people in trouble who are already struggling with addiction.



TygrBright

(20,763 posts)
20. Thanks!
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:38 PM
Oct 2015

While I think the likelihood of someone saying "Oh, well, I can't get addicted, I have too many friends" is relatively small (though not nonexistent!) I'm also concerned about people who will watch this video and reach some version of one of these conclusions:

A) What it would take to completely re-make human society into a vast "rat park" will be so expensive, so complex, and so difficult that we might just as well write off the whole issue of preventing and/or treating addiction as we know it now, and hope that the pink unicorns visit us to ratparkize everything SOON!

B) Any resources we put into any approach to addiction other than building human rat parks are WASTED, come on people, let's DO this, quit spending money on prescription drug take-back programs, changing local policy to enable sober living communities, ensuring better treatment criteria and payment options from insurance companies, etc.

Magic bullets can do a helluva lot of damage.

wearily,
Bright

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
23. I would rather be a junkie...
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:02 PM
Oct 2015

...than live in a human "Rat Park".
I would be the rat sitting in the corner facing the glass, head in hands,
saying over and over "I can't take this. I can't take this."




Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
21. Yes, genetics play a major role in addiction, as do trauma and conditioning. At the inner most core
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:41 PM
Oct 2015

of addiction though is a lack of connection with the sacred within, the feeling of separation from life, the separation from presence.

These re-connections are what truly heals addiction. And the healing is what must be focused upon first and foremost. The healing of addiction is the most important and connection with true self is the key.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
27. I love the Rat Park explanation. The only thing wrong with it is
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:12 PM
Oct 2015

rich people get richer from selling legal and illegal drugs, so recovery makes them less rich. These rich people can buy legislatures and other officials to ensure the drug demand isn't curbed from recovery. So no Rat Parks for humans, just Rat Hell.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
32. The idea of addiction is like obsession, too. Sometimes, obsession is good.
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:42 PM
Oct 2015

When writing a novel or doing something equally creative, becoming immersed in it (obsessed with it) can be both a delight and necessity for completion. The creative obsession is positive (usually) while the destructive addiction is negative. However, that consumption, that focus, has to be related somehow in our heads. So the act of obsession/addiction isn't bad. It's its effect that can be bad.

I'm sure folks schooled in psychology and behavior will tell me I'm wrong. Maybe I'm using the wrong terms, but the human drive for action into something that will absorb them (it can be Doctors Without Borders or animal rescue; it doesn't have to be solitary) manifests itself in many ways. Addiction resulting in negative effects, I think, is one of those ways.

robbob

(3,536 posts)
37. Bookmarking to watch later
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 01:41 PM
Oct 2015

CBC radio did a great series on addiction. Looking forward to seeing if any of the points they touched on are in this video...

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