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GoLeft TV

(3,910 posts)
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 03:43 PM Feb 2015

Papantonio: Republicans & Clinton Democrats Still Don't Understand How Capitalism Works

Mike Papantonio and Thom Hartmann discuss the problems that the GOP faces when it comes to understanding why keeping safety net programs funded properly will help grow the economy.

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Papantonio: Republicans & Clinton Democrats Still Don't Understand How Capitalism Works (Original Post) GoLeft TV Feb 2015 OP
You know what irritates the Hell fredamae Feb 2015 #1
Precisely. Jackpine Radical Feb 2015 #3
Damned Straight! n/t fredamae Feb 2015 #4
Righteous rant. nt Curmudgeoness Feb 2015 #6
My thoughts exactly, they know what they are doing. zeemike Feb 2015 #7
Personally-I do not fredamae Feb 2015 #10
+1!!! Exactly! I also hate the term, " spineless Democrats" because these ambitious snakes Dustlawyer Feb 2015 #13
They, the legislators adieu Feb 2015 #14
Exactly! ctsnowman Feb 2015 #15
Republicans and Clinton Democrats work on the 'Plutonomy' theory! LongTomH Feb 2015 #2
Oh, no, crashes are for Little People. Jackpine Radical Feb 2015 #5
We had a crash in 2008 Jack Rabbit Feb 2015 #9
If we believe they're fredamae Feb 2015 #17
The 1%'ers know EXACTLY what they are doing. Oh yes they do. We just don't want to accept the blkmusclmachine Feb 2015 #8
Sooner or later, we will have to confront that evil Jack Rabbit Feb 2015 #11
Republicans & Clinton Democrats Still Don't Understand How Capitalism Works - djean111 Feb 2015 #12
What Pap is saying is true. Enthusiast Feb 2015 #16

fredamae

(4,458 posts)
1. You know what irritates the Hell
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 03:50 PM
Feb 2015

out of me? It's this constant reinforcing narrative that "they" don't understand this..."they" Don't understand That..etc.
Lets start telling the truth..they All understand Exactly what they're doing-they are simply greedy individuals who are fully knowledgeable and Willfully doing that which serves themselves and their "club members" most.

Lets just cut the crap and bluntly state the reality of the situation, please? None of these "people" are Stupid, nor out of touch, nor misunderstanding a G'Damned thing....Look around you. What more evidence do you need?
SCREW Political Correctness..this is No time to "be polite" those days are Long gone! Period.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
3. Precisely.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 03:59 PM
Feb 2015

I was going to point out exactly the same thing.

It's another instance of one of my founding principles: Never attribute to mere well-meaning stupidity that which can be better explained as due to malevolent intent.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
7. My thoughts exactly, they know what they are doing.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 04:10 PM
Feb 2015

The world they want to create is one where there are a lot of hungry people, willing to take even the shitty jobs and will keep their mouth shut for fear of losing what little they have.
That will make the 1% kings able to fuck over their slaves any way they want...that is the freedom they are after.

fredamae

(4,458 posts)
10. Personally-I do not
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 04:25 PM
Feb 2015

believe they want hungry people....oh screw that...even to say they're Apathetic is glossing over reality......I must face the fact they are by Choice, Apathetic-desiring those circumstances via Their own choices/failure to take action to end those policies that allow such suffering and is no accident. Their records support your statement actually.

You're correct.

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
13. +1!!! Exactly! I also hate the term, " spineless Democrats" because these ambitious snakes
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 06:24 PM
Feb 2015

are anything but! Call it what it is, corruption/bribery with campaign mony! We all know they are bought off, but when will it be enough to do something about it? Will it be after they take away our SS? After they kill the oceans? When is enough enough?

 

adieu

(1,009 posts)
14. They, the legislators
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 06:29 PM
Feb 2015

do know how economics work and are pushing the austerity program for the short-term benefits of their wealthier handlers. But, their rhetoric is passed on to the local yokels who don't understand economics and they continue to espouse wrong-headed economic beliefs. Those have no profit to be gained by espousing the wrong beliefs, and have everything to lose by propping up the wrong position. But they're the stupid ones.

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
2. Republicans and Clinton Democrats work on the 'Plutonomy' theory!
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 03:52 PM
Feb 2015

That's the economic theory that you can run an economy by meeting the luxury spending needs of the rich, especially the super-rich (upper 0.1%) and the mega-rich (upper 0.01%). It will take an economic crash for them to learn otherwise.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
5. Oh, no, crashes are for Little People.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 04:01 PM
Feb 2015

As Andrew Mellon put it in about 1932, depressions are merely those times when wealth flows back to its natural owners.

fredamae

(4,458 posts)
17. If we believe they're
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 11:01 AM
Feb 2015

Ignorant/Dumb/Stoooopid...it allows us to give 'em a pass on their "Collective, Corruptive Mia Culpa".....

WE are being Played, Snookered, Mis-Lead and I call bull shit. In other words...Every Time we allow them to pull the wool over our eyes? A Multi-Multi-Billionaire Gets Another one of Our Dollars!

It Is Past Time to confront their Blatant Lies with some BLUNT Truth ---imo, of course.
It makes Zero sense for us out here---who are by a majority-not even Close to having the academic accomplishments of these pols (shysters) ...And all we can do is continue telling them about their "stupidity"...I mean..How did they ever make it out of Harvard? Yale? Columbia? Cornell? etc being so fkg "Dumb, Ignorant and Stoooopid"? How blinded by bull shit are WE??????????
We Sound like Broken Records. WE keep forgiving by saying..decade after decade that "these people are Stupid"...

They rub shoulders, dine with, make policies for all of Us and hug the Most powerful people in the world!!!

Isn't it Really that they are smart, cunning, calculating...to pull off the greatest Heist in the history of the world only to convince US they are Incapable and Under qualified for the positions we elect and appoint them to---over and over and over Again?
Wall Street, Dark Noise Media, a Cooperative DC and Congress = "The Modern Peoples Government"...aka: "Corporations Are People My Friend"...........Of the Corporate "people", By the Corporate "people", For the Corporate "people"...so they aren't actually Lying after SCOTUS gave us Citizens United...such a mis leading term for something so horrific, no?

Who is it, again...that is "ignorant"?
(I raise my hand)

 

blkmusclmachine

(16,149 posts)
8. The 1%'ers know EXACTLY what they are doing. Oh yes they do. We just don't want to accept the
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 04:20 PM
Feb 2015

evilness of their Agenda.


Jack Rabbit

(45,984 posts)
11. Sooner or later, we will have to confront that evil
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 05:54 PM
Feb 2015

The 1% doesn't want to accept it, either. Capitalism cannot survive without a middle class. There is actually a limit to how much wealth the rich and powerful can (dare I use the word Karl Marx used?) expropriate for themselves. (I think Marx was wrong; capitalism can survive forever as long as the capitalists are wise enough not to approach that limit. On the other hand, that might be easier said than done.)

If the 1% destroys us, the middle class, then they destroy themselves. If no one can buy their products, then they have nothing left, either. Long before that happens, people will be starving in the streets and feel they have nothing lose by revolting.

I don't think I've quoted this since I was in college. It's Chapter 32 of Capital, Volume 1;


What does the primitive accumulation of capital, i.e., its historical genesis, resolve itself into? In so far as it is not immediate transformation of slaves and serfs into wage labourers, and therefore a mere change of form, it only means the expropriation of the immediate producers, i.e., the dissolution of private property based on the labour of its owner. Private property, as the antithesis to social, collective property, exists only where the means of labour and the external conditions of labour belong to private individuals. But according as these private individuals are labourers or not labourers, private property has a different character. The numberless shades, that it at first sight presents, correspond to the intermediate stages lying between these two extremes. The private property of the labourer in his means of production is the foundation of petty industry, whether agricultural, manufacturing, or both; petty industry, again, is an essential condition for the development of social production and of the free individuality of the labourer himself. Of course, this petty mode of production exists also under slavery, serfdom, and other states of dependence. But it flourishes, it lets loose its whole energy, it attains its adequate classical form, only where the labourer is the private owner of his own means of labour set in action by himself: the peasant of the land which he cultivates, the artisan of the tool which he handles as a virtuoso. This mode of production presupposes parcelling of the soil and scattering of the other means of production. As it excludes the concentration of these means of production, so also it excludes cooperation, division of labour within each separate process of production, the control over, and the productive application of the forces of Nature by society, and the free development of the social productive powers. It is compatible only with a system of production, and a society, moving within narrow and more or less primitive bounds. To perpetuate it would be, as Pecqueur rightly says, “to decree universal mediocrity". At a certain stage of development, it brings forth the material agencies for its own dissolution. From that moment new forces and new passions spring up in the bosom of society; but the old social organization fetters them and keeps them down. It must be annihilated; it is annihilated. Its annihilation, the transformation of the individualized and scattered means of production into socially concentrated ones, of the pigmy property of the many into the huge property of the few, the expropriation of the great mass of the people from the soil, from the means of subsistence, and from the means of labour, this fearful and painful expropriation of the mass of the people forms the prelude to the history of capital. It comprises a series of forcible methods, of which we have passed in review only those that have been epoch-making as methods of the primitive accumulation of capital. The expropriation of the immediate producers was accomplished with merciless Vandalism, and under the stimulus of passions the most infamous, the most sordid, the pettiest, the most meanly odious. Self-earned private property, that is based, so to say, on the fusing together of the isolated, independent labouring individual with the conditions of his labour, is supplanted by capitalistic private property, which rests on exploitation of the nominally free labour of others, i.e., on wage labour. [1]

As soon as this process of transformation has sufficiently decomposed the old society from top to bottom, as soon as the labourers are turned into proletarians, their means of labour into capital, as soon as the capitalist mode of production stands on its own feet, then the further socialization of labour and further transformation of the land and other means of production into socially exploited and, therefore, common means of production, as well as the further expropriation of private proprietors, takes a new form. That which is now to be expropriated is no longer the labourer working for himself, but the capitalist exploiting many labourers. This expropriation is accomplished by the action of the immanent laws of capitalistic production itself, by the centralization of capital. One capitalist always kills many. Hand in hand with this centralization, or this expropriation of many capitalists by few, develop, on an ever-extending scale, the cooperative form of the labour process, the conscious technical application of science, the methodical cultivation of the soil, the transformation of the instruments of labour into instruments of labour only usable in common, the economizing of all means of production by their use as means of production of combined, socialized labour, the entanglement of all peoples in the net of the world market, and with this, the international character of the capitalistic regime. Along with the constantly diminishing number of the magnates of capital, who usurp and monopolize all advantages of this process of transformation, grows the mass of misery, oppression, slavery, degradation, exploitation; but with this too grows the revolt of the working class, a class always increasing in numbers, and disciplined, united, organized by the very mechanism of the process of capitalist production itself. The monopoly of capital becomes a fetter upon the mode of production, which has sprung up and flourished along with, and under it. Centralization of the means of production and socialization of labour at last reach a point where they become incompatible with their capitalist integument. This integument is burst asunder. The knell of capitalist private property sounds. The expropriators are expropriated.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
12. Republicans & Clinton Democrats Still Don't Understand How Capitalism Works -
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 06:24 PM
Feb 2015

sure they do. They just don't care who gets hurt, because they are safe and secure.
"Clinton Democrats" - starting to be an oxymoron.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
16. What Pap is saying is true.
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 07:19 AM
Feb 2015

How do we know it is true?

We know it is true because many Democrats remain silent when Republicans propose cuts. Many Democrats have adopted the Republican position on austerity. This includes raising the retirement age and voucherizing medicare.

These Democrats are wealthy. They do not have a clue. They are perfectly willing to outspend the entire world on the military while proposing cuts to Social Security and Medicare.

This is one of the reasons I cannot support Hillary Clinton.
There is no alternative to these safety net programs. Cutting them will indeed severely damage the economy and harm lives.






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