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proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 05:09 AM Feb 2015

Astroturf and manipulation of media messages | Sharyl Attkisson | TEDx University of Nevada



Published on Feb 6, 2015

In this eye-opening talk, veteran journalist Sharyl Attkisson shows how astroturf, or fake grassroots movements funded by political, corporate, or other special interests very effectively manipulate and distort media messages.

http://sharylattkisson.com/propaganda-and-astrotuf-recognize-it/

Here’s my TEDx talk on the increasingly artificial paid-for reality we get…and how to recognize the truth.

“Astrotuf seeks to manipulate you into changing your opinion by making it seem as if you’re an outlier–when you’re not.”

“Hallmarks of astroturf and propaganda include use of inflammatory language such as quack, crank, nutty, pseudo, paranoid and conspiracy.”

“Beware when an interest addresses an issue by controversializing or attacking the people, personalities and organizations surrounding the issue rather than the facts. That could be astroturf.”

Watch the TEDx Talk at the University of Nevada, Reno.
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Astroturf and manipulation of media messages | Sharyl Attkisson | TEDx University of Nevada (Original Post) proverbialwisdom Feb 2015 OP
“Beware when an interest addresses an issue by controversializing or attacking the people, personal jtuck004 Feb 2015 #1
That sounds like the tea party Jack Rabbit Feb 2015 #13
for example... "Benghazi!" salin Feb 2015 #2
Sharyl Attkisson is an anti-vax loon and a darling of the right wing's Benghazi campaign Major Nikon Feb 2015 #3
Anti-vax loon? Geronimoe Feb 2015 #4
If you're going to answer the question for me, do you really want my answer? Major Nikon Feb 2015 #7
I'll carry some water Geronimoe Feb 2015 #19
So you're blaming nutty claims of vaccines causing autism on the industry? Major Nikon Feb 2015 #20
Don't know? Geronimoe Feb 2015 #25
Nobody is demanding you trust them Major Nikon Feb 2015 #26
how can you miss the importance of that? ellennelle Feb 2015 #8
who would post her talk here? Major Nikon Feb 2015 #11
CBS VIDEO (2008): Former NIH Director Dr. Bernadine Healy on Vaccine-Autism Link proverbialwisdom Feb 2015 #21
Very telling you'd repost a 4 1/2 year old story found on all the anti-vax nutter sites Major Nikon Feb 2015 #23
The content of the story is what matters. It still stands. proverbialwisdom Feb 2015 #27
You were cold hard busted posting Safemind's quackery over 3 years ago Major Nikon Feb 2015 #29
Funny, that. Read what Ginger Taylor has to say about Quackwatch? proverbialwisdom Feb 2015 #31
Dr. Bernadine Healy, Dr. Jon Poling, and Dr. William W. Thompson are certainly not "anti-vax loons." proverbialwisdom Feb 2015 #22
Well, let's see. Dr. William W. Thompson recanted his lunacy Major Nikon Feb 2015 #24
Re: Thompson, haven't read that anywhere. Source? Re: Poling, wrong. Re: Healy, wanted MORE RESEARCH proverbialwisdom Feb 2015 #28
Probably because your only sources seem to be anti-vax nutters Major Nikon Feb 2015 #30
You're misinformed. I read them, too. Your link does not say that Dr. Thompson retracted anything. proverbialwisdom Feb 2015 #32
Please do continue. I've almost got a bingo Major Nikon Feb 2015 #34
Do semantics matter? Ask Frank Luntz, who recently has been involved in (mis)framing the issue. proverbialwisdom Feb 2015 #33
Well thanks for the example of attacking the personality. zeemike Feb 2015 #5
please spare me the righteous indignation Major Nikon Feb 2015 #6
So it is about her and not the media. zeemike Feb 2015 #9
Believe it or not, some people are nuts, quacks, etc. Major Nikon Feb 2015 #10
So it is the victim of being called a nut's fault. zeemike Feb 2015 #14
Strawman much? Major Nikon Feb 2015 #15
Just pointing out the logical fallacy of your straw man. zeemike Feb 2015 #16
I said she was a nut case. The rest you manufactured on your own Major Nikon Feb 2015 #17
I for one, thought that Sharyl did a nice job with her Ted Talk, of course I just listened without drynberg Feb 2015 #12
It sounds like good media criticism, but... TomVilmer Feb 2015 #18
"Snopes" trumps allegations by whistleblower law firm before formal Congressional investigation? proverbialwisdom Feb 2015 #35
 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
1. “Beware when an interest addresses an issue by controversializing or attacking the people, personal
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 06:02 AM
Feb 2015

personalities and organizations surrounding the issue rather than the facts. That could be astroturf.” <


Could be DU, too.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
3. Sharyl Attkisson is an anti-vax loon and a darling of the right wing's Benghazi campaign
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 09:25 AM
Feb 2015

She's also the same dipshit that claimed a stuck backspace key was Obama hacking her computer and wiping out a document she was typing.

So yeah, her giving a speech on manufactured "news" is more than just a bit ironic.

 

Geronimoe

(1,539 posts)
4. Anti-vax loon?
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 10:10 AM
Feb 2015

What is an anti-vax loon? A concerned parent? Possibly truth to the powerful? How safe is it when the pharma industry refused to supply vaccinations unless the government assumes all liability for any harm done by vaccinations.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
7. If you're going to answer the question for me, do you really want my answer?
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 11:12 AM
Feb 2015

Or are you just wanting to carry water for an anti-vax loon?

 

Geronimoe

(1,539 posts)
19. I'll carry some water
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 03:27 PM
Feb 2015

As long as pharma refuses to accept liability and puts this burden on the public, I'll assume it just isn't as safe as they want everyone to believe.

If you add causes of death due to medical error, hospital infections, bad reactions to medication, healthcare becomes the leading cause of death, greater than either heart disease or cancer.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
20. So you're blaming nutty claims of vaccines causing autism on the industry?
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 03:38 PM
Feb 2015

Seems to make as much sense as blaming a flat tire on Toyota because they waited too long to issue recalls.

 

Geronimoe

(1,539 posts)
25. Don't know?
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 05:26 PM
Feb 2015

However there is no trust when pharma refuses to produce the product unless government assumes liability. Also when those who stand to profit, sit on the regulatory boards.

Perhaps medical experts will find what is causing an epidemic of autism. So far they seem not to know.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
26. Nobody is demanding you trust them
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 05:34 PM
Feb 2015

That's not the same as promoting debunked bullshit and excusing it by saying we don't know so loons can just fill in the blanks.

ellennelle

(614 posts)
8. how can you miss the importance of that?
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 11:18 AM
Feb 2015

no vaccine is 100% effective; NOTHING is. i'm happy as a taxpayer to cover to costs of those who fall into the <5% or even less with bad reactions, in order for the vaccination to be mandated for the sake of the population at large.

what part of that is hard to understand?

i get that pharma is not a benevolent player, as a corporate entity, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

which, i suppose, would be part of the anti-vax loon definition; really try to avoid knee-jerk reactions to anything. it's the very definition of lunacy.

and, by the by, sharyl atkisson fits that bill to a T. sheez, who would post her talk here? why would TED give her the venue? she's certifiably nuts.

proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
21. CBS VIDEO (2008): Former NIH Director Dr. Bernadine Healy on Vaccine-Autism Link
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 04:32 PM
Feb 2015
http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/healy-on-vaccine-autism-link/

CBS VIDEO: Healy On Vaccine-Autism Link

JULY 28, 2008, 12:09 AM|"Only On The Web":
In an exclusive interview, former NIH Director Dr. Bernadine Healy tells CBS News' Sharyl Attkisson that the question of a link between vaccines and autism is still open for debate.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
23. Very telling you'd repost a 4 1/2 year old story found on all the anti-vax nutter sites
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 04:47 PM
Feb 2015

...written months before Wakefield's fraud was revealed.

Just sayin'

proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
27. The content of the story is what matters. It still stands.
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 08:30 PM
Feb 2015
The way to disarm any argument is to engage point by point to refute each, which is exactly what these parents have done. Mislabeling and blacklisting are unsustainable responses. The excruciating problems remain.

And to call parents who vaccinated derogatory names after the fact isn't well reasoned either, is it, just because they personally experienced/observed/reported adverse effects, intensively studied/critically examined the existing science, and organized to urgently lobby for more/better research? Let's listen.

In particular, let's note the distinction between the findings of independent scientists and others as these direct stakeholders have meticulously detailed.

http://www.safeminds.org/blog/2015/01/21/evidence-harm-thimerosal-found-disrupt-mitochondrial-function-cells-people-autism/

More Evidence of Harm: Thimerosal Found to Disrupt Mitochondrial Function in Cells From People With Autism

Date: 21 Jan 2015
By: SafeMinds


By Lyn Redwood, R.N., M.S.N., co-founder of SafeMinds

...Buried in the IOM report was the acknowledgment that the hypothesis that vaccines and components might result in harm in a genetically sensitive population:

“This hypothesis [that a genetic predisposition may make some children susceptible to vaccine damage] cannot be excluded by epidemiological data from large populations groups that do not show an association between a vaccine and an adverse outcome.”

In other words, the IOM report from 2004 recognized that a subset of the population may be at risk of being damaged from vaccines.

Yet the report failed to call for further investigation.

<>

Because this is such a widely used medical intervention, it is imperative to have the safest possible national vaccine program.

It is for these reasons that SafeMinds feels strongly that vaccine safety issues, even if theoretical in nature, deserve to be investigated to the fullest extent possible.

That is why SafeMinds has continued to fund research into thimerosal and has funded over 1.5 million dollars in environmental research into autism over the past 15 years.

This past month another study supported by SafeMinds was published in the Journal of Toxicology. This study evaluated how children with autism (actually their cells) responded to exposure to thimerosal. Link: http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jt/2015/573701/

<>

proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
31. Funny, that. Read what Ginger Taylor has to say about Quackwatch?
Mon Feb 9, 2015, 06:13 AM
Feb 2015
http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2008/09/usaaa-american-medical-autism-board.html

Ginger Taylor said...
Well since Quackwatch is on the treating autism community's list of questionable organizations, I am not sure why you think that would hold any sway here...

proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
22. Dr. Bernadine Healy, Dr. Jon Poling, and Dr. William W. Thompson are certainly not "anti-vax loons."
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 04:44 PM
Feb 2015

Please see additional posts on cited thread.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
24. Well, let's see. Dr. William W. Thompson recanted his lunacy
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 04:57 PM
Feb 2015

...and the first two never claimed vaccines caused autism.

Someone like Attkisson who continues to repeat well debunked nonsense certainly qualifies, which doesn't say much for her parrots.

proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
28. Re: Thompson, haven't read that anywhere. Source? Re: Poling, wrong. Re: Healy, wanted MORE RESEARCH
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 08:34 PM
Feb 2015

Well debunked nonsense? No, that's exactly the point.

Please see thread you cited. Excellent OP, btw, focusing on ramping up MMR for adults "to protect those who cannot get the vaccine. " That's the question now, isn't it? Definitions.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
30. Probably because your only sources seem to be anti-vax nutters
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 10:53 PM
Feb 2015
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/08/28/a-bad-day-for-antivaccinationists-a-retraction-and-the-cdc-whistleblower-issues-a-statement/

If I was wrong about Polling then prove me wrong. Just because you don't agree, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Healy, wanted MORE RESEARCH


Healy never claimed vaccinations cause autism. Is this really so hard for you to admit? As I said, her article on the subject was published months before it was revealed Wakefield was a complete fraud. Is this really so hard to understand?

proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
32. You're misinformed. I read them, too. Your link does not say that Dr. Thompson retracted anything.
Mon Feb 9, 2015, 06:25 AM
Feb 2015

It refers to the retraction of Dr. Hooker's paper, still available, however. Please see: http://www.autisminvestigated.com/brian-hooker-confirmed-by-cdc/

More later on Dr. Poling, Dr. Healy, and even Dr. Wakefield (maybe). Or maybe not, busy.

proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
33. Do semantics matter? Ask Frank Luntz, who recently has been involved in (mis)framing the issue.
Mon Feb 9, 2015, 04:43 PM
Feb 2015
http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/07/dear-dr-novella.html

MUST READ IN FULL: Letter sent to Dr. Steven Novella, a neurologist at Yale University, from Dr. Jon Poling. (We've printed the letter with permission.) Dr. Novella is the founder of The New England Skeptical Society (meetings, 1st Tuesday of the month, on the lawn of the House of the Seven Gables, Salem, MA. BYOB (bring your own blinders.) and is a contributing editor to Quackwatch. Dr. Poling is a neurologist/PhD and the father of Miss Hannah Poling.

...With regard to the science of Autism, I have no argument with the assertion that a single case does not prove causation of a generalized autism-vaccine link. What the case does illustrate though is a more subtle point that many physicians cannot or do not want to comprehend (ostensibly because vaccines are too important to even question). Autism is a heterogeneous disorder defined by behavioral criteria and having multiple causes. Epidemiological studies which have not found a link between autism and aspects of vaccination do not consider the concept of autism subgroups. Indeed, in a heterogeneous disorder like Autism, subgroups may indeed be ‘vaccine-injured’ but the effect is diluted out in the larger population (improperly powered study due to inability to calculate effect size with unknown susceptible subpopulation). I think former NIH Director, Dr. Bernadine Healey explained it best in that population epidemiology studies are not “granular” enough to rule-out a susceptible subgroup.

Furthermore, ‘science’ has not systematically studied the children who fell ill following vaccination to determine what the cause(s) for their adverse reaction was. It would follow that if you never tried to understand why a single child developed encephalopathy following vaccination—you wouldn’t have the first clue as to what aspects of vaccination you could alter which could increase the relative risk of that adverse event (whether it be thimerosal, live virus, or ‘too many’). Could the susceptibility be a mitochondrial genetic haplogroup similar to Chloramphenicol toxicity—sure it could! Why did a few Alzheimer’s patients die of fatal encephalitis following administration of the failed AN-1792 vaccine, but the majority had no ill effects (vaccine didn’t work though)?

Definition: Autism is a heterogeneous systemic disorder with primary neuropsychiatric manifestations due to complex genetic and gene-environmental interactions likely affecting synaptic plasticity early in childhood development. This new theory of Autism is rapidly replacing the ‘old guard’ dictum that Autism is a genetically predetermined developmental brain disorder of synaptic formation/pruning that is set in motion prenatally. By the ‘10 year rule of science,’ your time is about up!

<>

http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news/20080306/dad-in-autism-vaccine-case-speaks-out?page=2

Dad in Autism-Vaccine Case Speaks Out
Jon Poling, Father of Hannah, Explains He's Not 'Anti-Vaccine'
By Kathleen Doheny
WebMD Health News Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD
WebMD News Archive


March 6, 2008 -- Neurologist Jon Poling, MD, PhD, is not surprised that the federal government decided to grant compensation from a federal vaccine injury fund because his daughter Hannah, now 9, had developed autism-like symptoms after receiving childhood vaccines.

<>

Poling Not Anti-Vaccine
The experience with Hannah, Poling says, has not turned him against vaccines. "I want to make it clear I am not anti-vaccine," he says. "Vaccines are one of the most important, if not the most important advance, in medicine in at least the past 100 years. But I don't think that vaccines should enjoy a sacred cow status, where if you attack them you are out of mainline medicine."

"Every treatment has a risk and a benefit. To say there are no risks to any treatment is not true.''

"Sometimes people are injured by a vaccine, but they are safe for the majority of people. I could say that with a clean conscience. But I couldn't say that vaccines are absolutely safe, that they are not linked to brain injury and they are not linked to autism."

Poling is hopeful that the decision will trigger government action. "I hope it will force government agencies to look further into what susceptibility factors are out there for children to develop brain injury after vaccination, to look into the susceptibility factors of people at risk."

[center]
[/center]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/08/us/08vaccine.html

There are two theories about what happened to Hannah, said her mother, Terry Poling. The first is that she had an underlying mitochondrial disorder that vaccinations aggravated. The second is that vaccinations caused this disorder.

...“The government chose to believe the first theory,” Ms. Poling said, but added, “We don’t know that she had an underlying disorder.”

<>

This 2008 NYT article cites Lyn Redwood of SafeMinds, incidentally.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
5. Well thanks for the example of attacking the personality.
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 10:44 AM
Feb 2015

That is exactly how it is done.
Yep, we are living in a manufactured reality.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
6. please spare me the righteous indignation
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 11:10 AM
Feb 2015

If someone is going to be billed as a "veteran journalist", then it's pretty fair to explain what that really means.

She's been making a career out of claiming "media bias" destroyed her journalism career when the far simpler explanation is 'incompetency bias'.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/04/22/sharyl-attkisson-cries-media-bias-but-her-shodd/198971

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
10. Believe it or not, some people are nuts, quacks, etc.
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 11:34 AM
Feb 2015

Sharyl Attkisson complaining about being called a nut speaks volumes to some. YMMV.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
14. So it is the victim of being called a nut's fault.
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 02:22 PM
Feb 2015

And defending yourself of being called a nut is proof you are one?
I see how that works.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
16. Just pointing out the logical fallacy of your straw man.
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 02:41 PM
Feb 2015

(the Nut Case is your straw man)...and you said that she was a nut case like all the other nut cases that don't believe the official story.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
17. I said she was a nut case. The rest you manufactured on your own
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 02:56 PM
Feb 2015

...attributed to me, and then argued from that basis, which is the epitome of strawman bullshit.

drynberg

(1,648 posts)
12. I for one, thought that Sharyl did a nice job with her Ted Talk, of course I just listened without
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 12:25 PM
Feb 2015

Prejustice...

TomVilmer

(1,832 posts)
18. It sounds like good media criticism, but...
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 03:11 PM
Feb 2015

I found it very interesting - not her talk, but the fact that she mirrors this other recent video at DU. For me these two "warnings" against manipulation tastes like they them self are served with a common purpose - to spread confusion, and to tell you that there is nothing you can win a fight against.

proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
35. "Snopes" trumps allegations by whistleblower law firm before formal Congressional investigation?
Tue Feb 10, 2015, 07:31 PM
Feb 2015
http://www.morganverkamp.com/august-27-2014-press-release-statement-of-william-w-thompson-ph-d-regarding-the-2004-article-examining-the-possibility-of-a-relationship-between-mmr-vaccine-and-autism/

http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/cdcwhistleblower.asp


http://touch.orlandosentinel.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-81317483/

Posey looking at whistleblower's CDC autism documents

Scott Powers, Central Florida Political Pulse
10:40 am, September 9, 2014


U.S. Rep. Bill Posey has been curious for a while about whether there's been enough research into alleged links between childhood immunizations and autism, and now his office has a cache of documents from a CDC scientist who said his research was tainted.

Posey's Congressional office is reviewing somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,000 documents, including research statistics, it obtained from Dr. William Thompson, who has complained that the CDC withheld some of his data that may have suggested a link.

<>

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