Video & Multimedia
Related: About this forumdjean111
(14,255 posts)They kept saying this had nothing to do with the protest. So, did they just cruise the streets, looking for Palestinian flags on front doors? Are they taking pictures and names at protests?
Do people who demonstrate for Israel get visits like this?
They were asking her to be an informant, and, IMO, setting her up for prosecution if anyone in the protest breaks the law.
The guy's script evidently said he needed to say he was "confused", and it was funny how many times he tried that and it did not work.
CaptainTruth
(6,600 posts)... about why I wouldn't answer the question, I would tell him I'm equally confused about why he doesn't understand my rights under the US Constitution.
After all, shouldn't an alleged FBI agent be familliar with the Constitution?
And I say "alleged' because I no longer trust anyone with a badge, a costume, or a fancy-looking ID that I can order on the internet.
cstanleytech
(26,316 posts)What he was doing by saying he was confused was he was attempting to trick them into providing information of their own free will which is perfectly legal under the constitution.
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)... is that one runs the risk of the gov't retaliating in some *indirect* fashion.
For instance, tax audits, loan refusals, feeding false and defamatory info to media, etc. ( Or true and embarrassing, info, for that matter.)
As transparency increasingly becomes a pipe dream or a nostalgic fantasy..... and as gov't technology becomes ever-more sophisticated.....so does the likelihood of gov't abuse of authority.
cstanleytech
(26,316 posts)one in human history I am willing to wager that has been or probably ever will be truly transparent about everything it does.
brush
(53,832 posts)This is a borderline 4th Amendment violation.
TlalocW
(15,388 posts)Though we wouldn't be here if you hadn't been at a protest.
I like her tone throughout the video - as if she were talking to children. I think that took the wind out of their sails.
TlalocW
canuckledragger
(1,659 posts)I knew that was a lie the moment they first mentioned it.
And I love the way she wasn't intimidated in the least while maintaining control of the conversation the whole time. Something the agents weren't exactly used to.
marble falls
(57,157 posts)not like the FBI I remember from the sixties.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)IS THE FBI REALLY THAT STUPID? DO THEY REALLY THINK WE ARE THAT STUPID?
THIS WAS BLATANT INTIMIDATION TACTICS AT WORK.
most Americans are that stupid.
Even though "sneak and peeks" by LEO's are now legal, (we do not have the expectation of privacy in our own homes) I prefer to not knowingly allow these brown shirts in my home.
As a heart patient I have had to call the ambulance twice. A cop is always the first to arrive. While I was lying there having a heart attack, I noticed her (instead of comforting/helping me) walking from room to room (until I asked her not to) looking for who knows what.
It is unbelievable how they are trained (in addition to their natural personality types) to look for anything "illegal" or "curious."
I take a lot of meds and she found that interesting too...
elzenmahn
(904 posts)...and that's a shame.
Kablooie
(18,638 posts)I'm pretty sure I would have just answered even though I know I shouldn't.
I'm not very good at dealing with people and am easily intimidated, unfortunately.
elzenmahn
(904 posts)She knew her rights and was unafraid to stand up for them - not an easy task, especially today in the Police States of America.
For the record, I can't say how I would have reacted, either.
1monster
(11,012 posts)to you to get what they want.
Including telling you that you have no choice other than to let them into your house when they come calling, even after you tell them they cannot come in unless armed with a warrant.
Never, never trust a law enforcement officer. They are not your friends and they are not there to "protect and serve" you.
dotymed
(5,610 posts)" Protest is what makes this country great."
Yet if you protest (they spy on all except the elite,who ARE criminals) , expect to be considered a criminal by federal (at least) agents. Of course they were not there about the protests? Another WOW. This lady (who has the courage of her convictions) will be a target for the LEO's because she protected her rights.
BTW, $7 million A DAY to pay for Israels genocidal colonialism is beyond belief.
Another WOW.
Just imagine if that $$ was invested on impoverished Americans, or infrastructure, maybe guaranteeing living wages (Unions are our friends) etc.. WOW.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)eliminate protest and dissent against the elite by way of intimidation. Amazingly the gun nuts walk around with assault rifles on their back at anti-government protests.
NSA, FBI, CIA have turned inward - peace activists, environmentalists, and any group challenging the oligarchy are now the enemy.
You had to expect that after the Soviet Union fell apart, all that money, equipment and manpower would not be diverted to peaceful uses.
The new mission of our security apparatus? Protect corporations and our client states like Israel so crimes can continue unobstructed.
The "I have nothing worth protecting" apologists might be delighted by this, but this ultimately will affect them as well, They are just too simpleminded to understand the horrifying differential effects of a police state. Defenders of spying are in as much denial as the tea baggers are about global warming.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)Stolen.
freedom fighter jh
(1,782 posts)If I understand correctly, the right to remain silent comes from the right not to incriminate oneself. Therefore would her insistence on being silent -- especially because she cites her right to it -- not imply that she has something to hide? Why can't she just say, "No, at this protest I did not hear anything about any plans to hurt anyone or damage any property?"
Is anyone out there a lawyer who can speak to this?
EEO
(1,620 posts)You cannot legally infer guilt by someone's silence.
freedom fighter jh
(1,782 posts)which guarantees the right against *self-incrimination*? So you can't take the Fifth unless you're afraid that speaking would amount to testifying against yourself?
Or is there some other right to remain silent?
markpkessinger
(8,401 posts). . .it is drawn from Black's Law Dictionary and from Barron's, as well as from Supreme Court rulings (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-incrimination#cite_ref-12 ).
Here is one particularly pertinent passage from that discussion:
An incriminating statement includes any statement that tends to increase the danger that the person making the statement will be accused, charged or prosecuted even if the statement is true, and even if the person is innocent of any crime. Thus, even a person who is innocent of any crime who testifies truthfully can be incriminated by that testimony. The United States Supreme Court has stated that the Fifth Amendment privilege:
protects the innocent as well as the guilty.... one of the Fifth Amendments basic functions . . . is to protect innocent men . . . who otherwise might be ensnared by ambiguous circumstances..... truthful responses of an innocent witness, as well as those of a wrongdoer, may provide the government with incriminating evidence from the speakers own mouth.(12)
The U.S. Supreme Court has also stated:
Too many, even those who should be better advised, view this privilege as a shelter for wrongdoers. They too readily assume that those who invoke it are either guilty of crime or commit perjury in claiming the privilege.(13)
-------------------
[font size=1](12) Ohio v. Reiner, 532 U.S. 17 (2001) (per curiam).
(13) Ullmann v. United States, 350 U.S. 422, 426 (1956) (footnote omitted)
freedom fighter jh
(1,782 posts)These days I guess just about anything you say can be self-incriminating, then, because it can be twisted to be used against you.
markpkessinger
(8,401 posts), , , if it exposes you even to an accusation of wrongdoing, irrespective of guilt or innocence.
Neoma
(10,039 posts)She might be accused of hiding information. Remaining silent prevents that from happening.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)the police/fbi/etc will figure out how to use anything you say against you, they will manipulate you and trick you, they are allowed to lie to you. There is no requirement to warn you of your rights unless you are formally charged. If you are not charged and later charged, anything you said prior to that, will be used against you. And in the new reality of the Patriot Act I do not believe they have to warn you of your rights as a suspect of terrorism/state security investigation even if you are charged.
Your rights as a US citizen today mean less now than just about anytime in history because so much can be secretly classified as a threat to public safety, etc. That's why some of us have protested the ugly pig known as the Patriot Act. It will be used against the groups least able to defend themselves - environmental groups, peace activists, etc. The extremist NRA, however, is golden.
That Democrats in a large part support the Patriot Act is beyond any reasonable explanation. It is as bad for civil liberties as Citizens United was for electoral financing. We don't need our only two choices on election day supporting exactly the same horrible laws.
Sirveri
(4,517 posts)I know it's long, but it's actually interesting, answers your questions, and is by an actual lawyer. It doesn't actually feel like a full 30 minutes.
EEO
(1,620 posts)cstanleytech
(26,316 posts)DiverDave
(4,886 posts)How can 1 call get the fbi to my door?
elzenmahn
(904 posts)He won't tell where the "call in" originated, and asks about what might happen "after the protests.".
Thank you to whoever filmed this. This is the Police State in all of it's in-glory.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)as a potential terrorist by the state. This information can be shared with employers and local law enforcement which can then be used for further harassment, at traffic stops by police as an example.
Who in their right mind thinks this shit is OK? Is it OK just because someone who ran on the Democratic ticket is the President of the US?
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)I feel sorry for them. How ridiculous. Or unless that camera stop them from getting out of hand. But they're FBI, they could have grabbed that camera from her, and busted into her home and told a different story of how this woman reached for their guns and they had no choice but to shoot her. What a shit job that pays well.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Right.... What a load of bullshit.
OutNow
(866 posts)In 1974 when the FBI knocked on my door they asked the same sort of questions. Years later when I obtained my FBI file via a FOI request I found they knew about all protests I had attended, and some meetings I had attended at the Quaker meeting house. They wanted to know about anyone who espoused violent behavior, etc, etc. Bullshit. No they didn't, they wanted to intimidate people involved in legal activities.
Same shit, different decade. My advice, don't talk to the feds or any police agency.
BTW - I am very impressed with the woman that created the video. I was scared and nervous when the FBI came to my door. She appeared cool and "in charge".