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[AProgressiveThinker]

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[Adam051188]

1. not a chance. young people are divided and dumbed down. they never read thomas paine in high school.

(or much else for that matter)




to many old people. they all vote.

[Warren Stupidity]

2. looks like a rehash of late 60's early 70's marxist revolutionary nonsense.

It was wrong then too.

[AProgressiveThinker]

3. So please explain to me what is wrong with Marxism...

[Warren Stupidity]

6. revolutionary marxism has lots of problems. so does marxist leninst totalitarianism.

I don't have issues with democratic socialism. so which "Marxism" are you referring to?

[AProgressiveThinker]

11. Marxism-Leninism is not totalitarian

And in fact, totalitarian is merely just a buzzword. However, I am not a strict Marxist-Leninist, I follow some Trotskyist theories like his theory on the "deformed workers' state" and on "permanent revolution." However, I don't represent the entire group. My good friend and comrade Mahmood in the video is a Luxembourgist and we have a whole assortment of different Socialists and Communists in the group. There are Anarcho-Communists, Democratic Socialists, and even anti-revisionist Marxist-Leninists.

[Warren Stupidity]

14. Of for fucks sake yes it is and was. Right from the start the bolshevics were totalitarians.

Trotsky had no problem with vanguard party bullshit until the finger was pointing at him.

[AProgressiveThinker]

20. Yes, Trotsky was a Leninist so he had no problem with the vanguard party

And no the Bolsheviks were not "totalitarian", the word seems to just mean authoritarian, it is just an abstract buzz-word anti-Communists like to use against Socialist states. Yes, the Bolsheviks were authoritarian but what do you do when 21 countries invade yours in a Civil War? Embrace the imperialists with arms? No, even Engels said that the revolution was the most authoritarian thing in the world.

[Warren Stupidity]

23. The civil war was over by 1922.

The communist party continued to increase its control over all of society and engage in brutal suppression of all dissent during Lenin's reign right up until his death. Stalin of course continued these policies - he did not invent them - and it wasn't until he turned the apparatus against the party itself that people like Trotsky thought it was a bad idea.

[beerandjesus]

16. Answer: Hegel.

Read Vol. 2 of The Open Society and Its Enemies by Karl Popper for the most readable analysis I've come across.

[IrishAyes]

4. Quite apart from the wrong or right of your organization,

I must say that the timing of your split with the other group might not prove beneficial to your cause. Right now Putin is the face of communism for most of the world. He's no more palatable than Stalin to most people. Good luck overcoming that hurdle.

I'm an old lady who came of age in the 1960's, with a peculiar fondness for Trotsky which I've never quite understood well or delved into - or bothered to hide. It's just there. Not to worry, there's probably nothing the CIA, FBI, and NSA don't know or think about me already. No point keeping my head down now.

But after reading much of your FB page, I get the impression you are a very young man. That has its advantages but believe it or not, it also carries one significant disadvantage - the lack of long-range personal perspective. There are things you will learn over time that you might not even be considering now. It's not my place to school you on the matter; we all have to arrive at that point by our own path. Just try to believe me that with any luck you will not be quite the same person at 40, 50, or even 60 as you are now. The earlier wisdom comes to a person, the better.

Enough said. By me, anyway.

[Warren Stupidity]

7. putin is not "the face of communism". he isn't a communist.

[IrishAyes]

8. In the popular mind he IS the face of communism. I never said he's actually its

prime example. There can be a gap between reality and perception.

Sometimes it's a good idea to read my statements carefully for what they are, not what you might imagine them to be.

That said, Putin does not appear to be what I'd consider a good communist. Which still doesn't mean he isn't one at all.

If we don't string this out to an endless and useless debate about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, I'd be interested briefly in knowing what you do consider Putin to be. In addition to a xenophobic, blustery dictator, that is.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. Sounds sort of bullshitty to me.

Sorry if you are stuck in a cold war mindset.

[IrishAyes]

15. Your reply demonstrating once again that you have ABSOLUTELY NO ANSWER TO THE QUESTION!

Do you think I'm unfamiliar with the distract&deflect method you're using? You're outting yourself. I don't need to do it for you. Neither one of you has yet to give a straightforward answer to the simplest question - what do YOU consider Putin if not communist?

Gee, most of the time it's impossible to hush the gush of opinions, fact based or otherwise. But let me ASK for one, and what do you have to offer? A big fat NOTHING.

Now I'm tired of wasting my breath on you. This exercise in futility is officially over.

[AProgressiveThinker]

10. LOL, Putin is NOT a Communist!

[IrishAyes]

12. Same question and response as I gave the other guy.

Read my remarks w/o coloring them with your own thoughts. That's neither good form nor perceptive.

At the risk of puffing up your ego too much, I'll ask just exactly what do YOU consider Putin to be? I know how the world in general perceives him (my original point) and also what he considers himself.

Do be a good boy and finish your thought: what do YOU consider him to be? Not that it will change realitiy one iota.

[AProgressiveThinker]

17. Putin is the representative of...

The national bourgeoisie in Russia. If you think Putin is a Communist, you seriously have a distorted view of what Communism is. Communism is a stateless, moneyless, classless society with completely free exchange and utilization of property with decentralized democratic control over property reached through by the epoch of Socialism. Putin hasn't even enacted any Socialist measures like socializing the factories and natural resources or collectivizing the agriculture.

[IrishAyes]

18. At last a direct, non-waffling response.

Doesn't change the fact that to the world at large he IS the face of communism. Right or wrong, that's the perception.

Still - when I refer to something being the general perception, it's appalling how many people leap to the conclusion that it's necessarily my view as well. Somebody needs to double down on critical thinking and analysis of reality. Too many people just don't read well anymore.

PS: helpful hint - I just re-read all my comments. Please show me exactly where I said Putin IS a communist. You can't because it isn't there. Yet you SEEM all hot under the collar that I've said that when I really haven't. I don't think you'd last a minute on a top debate team, certainly not in a courtroom.

Yes, I've been toying with you a bit. But you're the one who came asking for it, so don't go whining to Mom that you feel slighted. You wouldn't alert on me, would you? Is that what a real, good communist would do; tattle to the establishment?

[AProgressiveThinker]

19. He's only the face of Communism to people who don't understand Communism.

And it seemed like you were implying that he was a Communist regardless when he clearly isn't and no, he is not the face of Communism to the world, that would be Castro or Xi Jinping.

[IrishAyes]

21. And when did I ever indicate the general public understands Communism? Never.

I didn't imply, either. You carelessly inferred to a remarkable degree.

Language is a far more potent weapon than many realize. Learn to use it well.

Please tell me specifically, are you a Stalinist as well? I didn't have time to read everything you wrote on your main page. I'd be entertained to know, since he was a worse mass murderer than Hitler and not exactly a person to hitch your star to in this day and age. I hold that charge against him, and even were it not so, I'd hate him to my very core for having Trotsky killed. He wasn't fit to tie Leon's shoes.

While I'm not communist myself, rather a most ardent socialist, I've followed the development of various world political systems with great interest. Regardless of where we differ, for some reason Trotsky found more favor with me than the others. I'm sure his absolute and undeserved betrayal and assassination has something to do with it.

While you wonder about my depth of knowledge, don't forget that every political system morphs to some degree over time as more people learn what works and what doesn't. Trying to hold out for one's own understanding (which may conflict with another's) of a traditional/pure version is playing a fool's game and plays right into the hands of the opposition. Youth in general tends to mistake what I just said there as a sellout. But it isn't. I see it as survival of the fittest. We have a fine ultra-left group here; I just don't know how far you're going to get fishing for converts on DU, to be quite frank.

[IrishAyes]

22. Oh, I quite forgot to mention one other thing earlier;

According to Raul, and sometimes Fidel himself, Fidel is not a communist. He's a Fidelisto! Please, don't try to tell me you think you know better than those two. Although I realize you only actually said Castro is the face of communism to the world. It's still wrong, however. I'd wager my life that to most of the world - outside your individual small circle, perhaps - in the popular mind Putin has overshadowed Castro for many years. Outside Asia, a majority of average people are quite likely to respond, "Xi who???"

Which leads us back to my statement that Putin (regardless of what he actually is or isn't) remains the face of communism to the worldwide public.

[swilton]

5. Never have believed in the

'Facebook Like' as any kind of measurement of popularity.

[IrishAyes]

9. True; although social media has been the vehicle of mass social change and even

outright revolution, it can also harbor delusions of grandeur.

I meant no insult to the young although they are more likely to be the means of revolution rather than its true leaders. Revolution is necessary and unavoidable. But sometimes older heads who've seen a lifetime of history are more aware that revolution always eats its children. Better the kind that comes from persuasion than violence and that builds rather than destroys. The explosive kind cannot be controlled. But if we don't get more equality and justice in this country, that's the kind that inevitably will happen. And then it's Katie bar the door.