CrossTalk: Putin's Gambit? (This was an Interesting Discussion)

[KoKo]

CrossTalk: Putin's Gambit?

Published on May 9, 2014
What influence does Russia have on the current situation in Ukraine? Is it a geopolitical blunder from a part of Washington, or is it a part of Putin's gambit? And does Washington want in fact a revolution in Russia? CrossTalking with Gordon Hahn, Joe Lauria and Edward Lozansky.

Watch all CrossTalk shows here:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=... (Jul 2012 - current)

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

[uhnope]

1. why post RT on Putin and Ukraine at all? He owns the damn station fer krissake

[KoKo]

2. Other Voices....Other Views...it's what I was taught by Professors in College...

To always have an "Open Mind" and always "Question" what one is told by Any Media...

And to do that one must have time....and those of us who have time are trying to make it easier for those who don't have time. Because...it's important.

[uhnope]

4. FOX News. Same goes for FOX News, right? How far does that empty platitude go?

FOX News is an "other voice, other view" that must be listened to also, right?
Oh, and neo-Nazi websites, too, right?

[KoKo]

6. unhope...I don't watch it...so what can I tell you about what it reports...?

I see lots of DU'ers who post stuff from there...but I can't understand why except that somehow it suits their beliefs.

But...from the DU posts I've seen about Faux News they are more aligned with the NeoNazi's than Putin's Network.

I'm, of course, old enough to have lived through McCarthy Hearings, Cold War and J. Edgar Hoover's FBI. And, Vietnam War......and the rest. On LIES.

So it's probably an Age/Experience Difference here.

[uhnope]

11. "Don't be so open-minded that your brain falls out"--a counter-platitude my professors gave me

Gender difference? WTH?

Way to dodge the issue BTW. Yeah you can avoid the point. Linking to RT is no different than link to FOX, and you can pretend to not know what that means. And saying all sources are equal are what cultists, fabulists and propagandizers have always said

[KoKo]

16. "Age/Experience Difference" here not "Gender.".. Sorry 'bout that..was in another post. n/t

[ballyhoo]

3. That was a great video, Koko..

Thanks for posting it. This is not over by a long shot.

[uhnope]

5. some people are really sulking

because there was no invasion.

[KoKo]

7. Did you mean "Skulking" and not "Sulking?"

I don't see "Sulkers" here. No "Pity Parties" but many "Skulkers."

's

[ballyhoo]

8. Not me. I said long ago he had two plans "the stalking horse" and the

less probable invasion. After the fire, I thought he might go for the invasion. But he backed off, which was a far better
move than the invasion. (Read world news.) Putin can do minimal damage to the US, but he can hurt Germany badly economically. So, will Merkel step in if the referendum goes too much in Russia's favor and Putin tosses it aside? Or will Putin do what I think he'll do...En passant, with the US doing the short move?

[uhnope]

9. or maybe freedom-loving Russians will rise up and give dictator Putin out

since you like speculating and fantasizing

[ballyhoo]

10. Putin has the greatest approval ratings right now

that he has ever had. Not in the mood for an argument. It's too close to Mother's Day. Sunday should be very interesting as that German soldier on Laugh-in used to say.

[uhnope]

12. Do you have any idea how ironic your post is?

[ballyhoo]

13. No. Please do tell.

[swilton]

14. Excellent program

For those into history of WWII - the battle of Stalingrad is an excellent subject worth watching from the Russian and German perspectives.

The Russian film 'Burning Snow' /'Goryachi Sneg' - 1972

IMBD link is here and from the book by the same name

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0212194/

The German treatment of the same subject is here 'Stalingrad' was made in 1993 (50th anniversary of battle)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108211/?ref_=nv_sr_2

The Germans made a documentary with interviews of participants (both Russians and Germans) - either in 2003 or 2013 - it is also worth watching as many of the interviewees were in their 80's and 90's and only in their teens at the time of the event....(was unable to find this through an IMBD search but it was available on NETFLIX)

All of the above are available on NETFLIX....

As with the RT presentation here, so with the films, different perspectives are valuable to pursuing truth and reality.

[ballyhoo]

15. I just ordered this after reading your post. I always

wanted to see this, but I kept forgetting.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004TXFFI6/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[swilton]

21. Thanks for the

Last edited Sat May 10, 2014, 01:05 AM - Edit history (2)

referral; will look into that one.

One more referral, from an earlier era is the classic War and Peace which won the best foreign film picture Oscar

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063794/

Yes, it's seven hours long but one has to watch it in segments and it's worth it. Historical costumes, early 19th century battlefield tactics, etc., etc. I bought the deluxe version through Amazon and that has interviews with participants, director and also wonderful background notes. It was shown at the Silver Spring, Md. AFI in segments - due to time constraints couldn't see it there so tried it through NETFLIX.

Having seen foreign films through the AFI, I found this link on Wikkipedia - lots of good material here...I'm going to put the link in but my favorite of the favorites is the movie Z - It is the only film to win the category for best foreign language film and also best picture........ a must see thriller with political intrigue and based on historical characters....+ a feel good .....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Academy_Award_winners_and_nominees_for_Best_Foreign_Language_Film



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_(film)

Link in Youtube - entire movie

[KoKo]

17. Thanks...These look like interesting...

good weekend and over Summer watches. This situation with Russia is going to be ongoing for awhile and it's a great chance to catch up on our Russian History and WWII and Who Fought and Why.

Many thanks!

[KoKo]

19. BTW...My partner is into Alan Furst Novels...Here's a link

and there's always interesting reviews of his individual books at Amazon. For Summer "Get Away" reading..if you have any breaks:

FROM AMAZON:

Alan Furst is widely recognized as the master of the historical spy novel. Now translated into seventeen languages, he is the bestselling author of Night Soldiers, Dark Star, The Polish Officer, The World at Night, Red Gold, Kingdom of Shadows, Blood of Victory, Dark Voyage, and The Foreign Correspondent Born in New York, he now lives in Paris and on Long Island.

http://www.amazon.com/Alan-Furst/e/B000APC9TU

[swilton]

22. Interesting

that he lives in Paris - I wonder what his background is to do the novels.

Possibly similar, and of an earlier era are the Graham Greene (also the name of a DU member/poster) novels. Greene was former MI6 (British Intel) and his great works were spy thrillers, many critical of US foreign policy and made into movies....My favorite is the Quiet American and it was made into two American movies - one in 58 which was heavily influenced by the McCarthy era and distorted Greene's plot, and the second in 2002...which starred Michael Caine, was nominated for an Oscar and I think very much illustrates what is happening now in Ukraine....here is the imbd link for as you say - for spare time viewing...Plot is about US involvement in Vietnam in late 40's-early 50's
btw - the IMBD plot description really misses the boat and doesn't do the film justice.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0258068/

[zeemike]

20. What he nailed was the US press.

It has become like Pravda of the USSR...
Thank god we have access to other sources on the net or we would be at war by now in some country or the other...and believing it was to protect our "freedom"
Thanks for posting this.

[jakeXT]

23. If instabillity is bad for business, maybe chaos is the plan

Despite the heated rhetoric coming from Western governments, Russia’s primary objective in Ukraine has actually been to reduce the level of domestic instability. The reasons are not hard to fathom. First, such instability is bad for business, which in the case of Ukraine, involves military, industrial and energy investments that are vital to Russia. Second, continued instability is bad for Russia because it increases the likelihood of Ukraine becoming a failed state, which Russia will feel obliged to support with massive humanitarian assistance. Third, such instability is bad because it increase tensions with the West, which has a tendency to blame Russia for everything that happens there.

Russia would very much like to see Ukraine as a stable economic and political partner, able to provide enough growth and jobs to its own citizens to reduce the annual flow of more than 3 million Ukrainian migrant workers into Russia, and thus contribute to the prosperity of the 11 million Russians who live along the border with Ukraine. Having already spent as much as 300 billion dollars over the past two decades to prevent the collapse of the Ukrainian economy, it hardly seems likely that Russia now seeks its economic demise. It most certainly does not want to spend the tens of billions of dollars it would take to absorb these regions, and raise their standard of living up to that of Russia.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/six-mistakes-the-west-has-made-continues-make-ukraine-10397?page=show

[swilton]

24. Thank you for the link to

Nicolai Petro's article - he has been interviewed on TRNN many times and I agree with his article and the arguments.

The 'voice of Ukraine' is far from united - it just happens that the far right pro-European voice is the one that the US has chosen to serve as its puppet....There is an equally valid 'pan-Slav' voice and many voices in between these two poles of a diverse spectrum...A federation is the preferred for of government to give all ethnic groups (ethnicity btw is a very soft term for political scientists and is challenged as such) a voice; for this Russian participation in determining Ukraine's fate is just as essential as that of the West. But given the Putin bashing by the US propaganda machine, it is hard to see Russia as having a worthy contribution in this crisis.

Interesting that he references Barbara Tuchman and the critically acclaimed (Pulitzer winning) Guns of August. In my view an equally appropriate Tuchman work would be March of Folly: From Troy to Vietnam . I have written an article on that subject and it should be published in our local paper soon.

http://www.amazon.com/The-March-Folly-From-Vietnam/dp/0345308239