Bill Maher, Michael Moore, Al Sharpton, Valerie Plame, Richard Dawkins on Religion

[Coyotl]

[Spitfire of ATJ]

1. Maher is dead wrong on Christians not taking it to the extreme and killing....

Abortion alone has a long list of dead doctors. Bombings too.

When you think you are "God's instrument" anything goes.

[MrMickeysMom]

4. I was waiting for that argument, too...

We can also go back to the Crusades...

Maher also doesn't KNOW how to handle his own military and CIA and assassinations of 50 years ago. There are certain barriers this guy needs to cross into regarding the disparity of power within EVERY religion... not just the ones HE can't understand or handle talking about.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

32. White Supremacists use Christianity as justification for their crap and they're in current events.

[iandhr]

5. Thats not his point

His point is there wasn't massive rioting in front of the British embassy over Monty Python's Life of Brian.


Richard Dawkins never faced what Salman Rushdie faced.

There is no comparison between even the most extremist Christians here and Islamic fundamentalists.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

30. Don't kid yourself. Python got plenty of death threats.

[iandhr]

34. There wasn't rioting in front of UK embassies

[Spitfire of ATJ]

36. Watch this...

They mention Christians were protesting "Jesus Christ - Superstar" 10 years later.

[Jamaal510]

6. I was surprised

that he even said that, considering how critical he usually is towards Christianity.

[hrmjustin]

11. He never said Christians don't commit these crimes.

[blackspade]

41. Completely agree

most of Maher's opinions seem dead on to me, but on this one he has a blindfold on.
Sanctimonious Christians have been killing in the name of little baby Jesus for 1500+ years and counting.

[delrem]

2. Interesting panel of observers.

Bill Maher seemed to be "the big zealot" of the bunch. Moore seemed to be the most intelligent.
Maher seemed to be saying that "liberalism" is antithetical to "Islam", and to be crusading.
Moore aimed discussion toward actual foreign policies of, not the least, the USA.

[hrmjustin]

3. I think what Maher was saying that liberals need to not be afraid

of calling out some Muslim countries on their lack of civil rights and equality. We rightly call out Christian extremists in this nation but are timid with other religions. I think in large part because liberals don't want to be lumped with the GOP and their bigotry.

[delrem]

7. No. He was calling out Islam.

[hrmjustin]

8. He calls out Christianity all the time. Islam is big enough to handle Bill Maher.

He is right that we need to call out religions when they hurt people.

[delrem]

9. So. You were wrong. nt

[hrmjustin]

10. Wrong about what?

[delrem]

12. When you said:

" I think what Maher was saying that liberals need to not be afraid
of calling out some Muslim countries on their lack of civil rights and equality"
that wasn't what he was saying.

How many turns around that loop you wanna go?

[hrmjustin]

13. Yes he was. He was saying that we need to call out some Muslim countries on their

lack of civil rights.

[delrem]

14. No. He was calling out Islam. repeat. nt.

[hrmjustin]

15. Ok What do you think he said that was wrong?

[delrem]

16. What in fuck are you talking about now? nt

[hrmjustin]

17. Look he calls out Christiannity all the time. I think Islam can survive Maher.

Obviously he upset you and I am sorry he did.

[delrem]

18. He doesn't "upset me". You tried to "correct me", and you were wrong. Simple as that.

Now g'day, sir.

[hrmjustin]

19. Good night.

[delrem]

20. whatever.

[hrmjustin]

21. I thought you wanted to stop talking to me.

I am sorry if I got what you said wrong. I meant no offense to you.

[delrem]

22. I dunno where you're at, dude - but I know you're a DU mod, and that worries me.

[hrmjustin]

23. What worries you? That I have a different opinion or that I got what you are saying wrong?

[delrem]

24. That you're so intent on making the matter personal.

Seems unbalanced.

[hrmjustin]

25. I told you what I think what Maher meant.

I thought we disagreed. I was not trying to make it personal. You made it clear to me you were not upset. When you said what the ^&*( are you talking about I thought you were angry.

[delrem]

26. whatever.

[Miranda4peace]

33. No, he basically said liberalism is antithetical to Islam.

There was no room for interpretation at all.

[delrem]

47. Right.

And Maher is incorrect, biased by what I think must be lack of experience of living among Muslims who are as liberal as any other liberal. Maher is fairly renowned for this debilitating and easily corrected bias.

I've lived my entire adult life among such "liberals", of many religions. IMO truly "religious" people are those who are open to learn from all religions, from all creative ideas. To me that's what the liberal principle of equality under the law w.r.t. religious belief is all about.

[CrawlingChaos]

27. Maher is an Islamophobic bigot

So is his friend Richard Dawkins. They go beyond legitimate criticism and well into the territory of gross distortion, outright lies, demeaning stereotypes and flat out hatemongering. They can take their War on Terra(tm) style propaganda and stick it where the sun don't shine.

Here's Juan Cole on Bill Maher's Muslim-hating bigotry:

http://www.juancole.com/2012/09/muslims-are-no-different-or-why-bill-mahers-blood-libel-is-bigotry.html

You could tell the entire panel here wanted to challenge Maher - Michael Moore in particular seemed to want to distance himself from this reprehensible shit but was FAR too timid and ultimately Maher cut him off before he could get out any substantive comment.

Seriously, Maher isn't far from Pamela Gellar territory on this issue and it's disappointing that so many liberals are willing to give him a pass.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

29. Every time Maher has someone on who's Muslim he has to act like they're savages....

He needs to have Dave Chappelle on the panel.

[hrmjustin]

37. He hates all religion. He hates Christianity as well.

[CrawlingChaos]

43. Are you, perhaps, not all that familiar with Maher?

He has a very broad range of degrees of hatred which he directs at various religions.

At one end is Judaism, which he finds merely quirky and silly. You couldn't really call it "hatred" at all.

On the other end is Islam, which he claims is barbaric, crazed, inherently homicidal and just plain "evil".

Christianity falls somewhere in the middle for Bill - damaging to society but not crazed and savage, like Muslims.

In case you have any sincere interest in what I'm talking about, here's a very good blog post that covers the topic:

http://www.wideasleepinamerica.com/2012/12/has-maher-the-not-so-new-depths-of-bill.html

[hrmjustin]

46. I agree he goes overboard and is a bigot but he is not friendly to any religion.

[JimboBillyBubbaBob]

28. Al can be funny at times.

He says "30% of Muslims think Obama was born right down the road in Kenya from him" and points at Dawkins. Good one Al!

[Miranda4peace]

31. Original title is bla bla bla "BATTLE OVER THE SINS OF ISLAM" Posters title is misleading.

DU title implies that the radicalism of all religion's are covered and that's obviously not the case.

Zionism was never mentioned, and it's a pretty disgusting Xenophobic, genocidal movement.

Abortion doctor killers weren't discussed.

Warren wasn't discussed and his hateful rhetoric has resulted in the murder of Homosexuals, and Anti-gay death penalty legislative efforts on the African continent.

[hrmjustin]

38. He decided to focus on Islam that episode.

[Miranda4peace]

44. Just about every episode he interjects with bigoted islamaphobic hysteria.

He is a closet fan

[hrmjustin]

45. I agree ut he also goes after other religion. He is anti-religion.

[Miranda4peace]

48. No, he is anti-Muslim first followed by Anti-Christian, he never critisizes Zionism(Radical Judaism)

and he certainly never mentions the liberal and positive aspect of any of these faiths.

As an Atheist I find him to be tacky and crude.

He would have berated Van Jones and told him to stfu simply because he signed a petition about 9-11 honesty.

The petition wasn't saying the government PLANNED 9-11, it just wanted to hold the government accountable for the intelligence mistakes that were made and admit that if the intelligence community had been cooperating with each other the 9-11 plot could have been foiled. This dude just wants to shut down any substantive discussion about the subject.

[Shankapotomus]

35. I take one issue with Bill Maher

Fundamentalist Christians are not under the same societal and political pressures here as extremists Muslims perceive themselves (and in some cases are) overseas. So you will not see the suicidal crazy in American Fundamentalists Christians as you see in extreme Muslims. Yet. I would suspect, if given the right circumstances (as we have seen with David Koresh), they are capable of extreme mass violence as an organization just as any terrorist group.

[hrmjustin]

39. Look at the 2000 years of Christianity. When a nation has been ruled by CHristian law or what

they think is Christian law the society usually was backwards. This is why I support seperation of Church and State. Unfortunately the same thing happens when a nation follows Islamic law.

[Shankapotomus]

40. Yes, there can be a pattern

when religions are in control. That's one side. In this case the two religions feel they are, each to varying degrees, under siege by modern values, on the one hand, and Western modern values on the other. In the case of Islam, I would suspect the pressure is two-fold being that the effecting cultural influences running counter to its beliefs are both Western (from without) and modern. Whereas, the threat for religious fundamentalists in America has been largely it's own modern culture (from within) until recently. But I believe the American fundamentalists are becoming more agitated to the degrees we see overseas in extremist Islam because of the importation of multiculturalism. That two-pronged attack is putting a strain on their coping ability just as it has on Islam overseas, imo.

[Taverner]

42. I agree with Mike. And I am an Atheist. I just want the empathy.