Everyone should know just how much the government lied to defend the NSA
Trevor Timm
theguardian.com, Saturday 17 May 2014 07.54 EDT
If you blinked this week, you might have missed the news: two Senators accused the Justice Department of lying about NSA warrantless surveillance to the US supreme court last year, and those falsehoods all but ensured that mass spying on Americans would continue. But hardly anyone seems to care least of all those who lied and who should have already come forward with the truth.
Here's what happened: just before Edward Snowden became a household name, the ACLU argued before the supreme court that the Fisa Amendments Act one of the two main laws used by the NSA to conduct mass surveillance was unconstitutional. In a sharply divided opinion, the supreme court ruled, 5-4, that the case should be dismissed because the plaintiffs didn't have "standing" in other words, that the ACLU couldn't prove with near-certainty that their clients, which included journalists and human rights advocates, were targets of surveillance, so they couldn't challenge the law. As the New York Times noted this week, the court relied on two claims by the Justice Department to support their ruling: 1) that the NSA would only get the content of Americans' communications without a warrant when they are targeting a foreigner abroad for surveillance, and 2) that the Justice Department would notify criminal defendants who have been spied on under the Fisa Amendments Act, so there exists some way to challenge the law in court.
It turns out that neither of those statements were true but it took Snowden's historic whistleblowing to prove it. One of the most explosive Snowden revelations exposed a then-secret technique known as "about" surveillance. As the New York Times first reported, the NSA "is searching the contents of vast amounts of Americans' e-mail and text communications into and out of the country, hunting for people who mention information about foreigners under surveillance." In other words, the NSA doesn't just target a contact overseas it sweeps up everyone's international communications into a dragnet and searches them for keywords.
The Snowden leaks also pushed the Justice Department to admit contrary to what it told the court that the government hadn't been notifying any defendants they were being charged based on NSA surveillance, making it actually impossible for anyone to prove they had standing to challenge the Fisa Amendments Act as unconstitutional. It's unclear how much Solicitor General Donald Verrilli knew when he told the government's lies twice to the justices of the supreme court. Reports suggest that he was livid when he found out that his national security staff at the Justice Department misled him about whether they were notifying defendants in criminal trials of surveillance. And we don't know if he knew about the "about" surveillance that might well have given the ACLU standing in the case. But we do know other Justice Department officials knew about both things, and they have let both lies stand without correcting the record.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/17/government-lies-nsa-justice-department-supreme-court?CMP=twt_gu
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)for crimes committed by those who falsely deliver bad information.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Just a few is all that's needed, thanks!
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)what was going on", he "revealed" what was given to the public in 2005.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)...then why was Snowden charged with stealing Classified Information?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Not know about the collection of phone call records until 2013? The NSA is a whistleblower agency, they blow the whistle on terror plots. Love the true whistleblowers.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Something is either classified..... or it isn't.
...and that old "Its ONLY the meta-data" has been debunked so many times.
You should try harder to keep up.
That way you could avoid future embarrassment by dredging up old, busted, BS,
and trying to sell it at DU.
We KNOW better.
The NSA was doing FAR more than just storing the Meta-Data,
as if THAT isn't bad enough.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Was happening before 2013. Lots here believe this was revealed by Snowden, it was revealed in 2006. I also stated the NSA was blowing the whistle on terrorists. By knowing the correct information sure does not embarrass me.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Posted by Thinkingabout in this thread.
Thats you story,
and you're sticking with it?
Oh well.
I tried to warn you about embarrassing yourself on DU.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)In the years between 2005 and 2013 then I can't help you. Even when Obama was campaigning in 2007-2008 he spoke of illegal wiretapping. What was he talking about?
bananas
(27,509 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)bananas
(27,509 posts)edit to add: I'm referring to your silly comment below: "Snowden is not a whistleblower by the Whistleblower Act"
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Snowden was not covered by the Whistleblower Act when he worked at intelligence agency so he failed the limits of the Whistleblower Act.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Watch our tax dollars at work
How NSA Spies Abused Their Powers to Snoop on Girlfriends, Lovers, and First Dates
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/09/27/loveint_how_nsa_spies_snooped_on_girlfriends_lovers_and_first_dates.html
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)If this is true then expect the NSA and other agencies to be spying on them. BTW, I think, I read, I research and I am not paranoid thinking the NSA is interested in spying on petty subjects of American citizens.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Because the link established that the abused parties were in fact not terrorist in these cases. I await the stalking charges for these perps.
Maybe you can't. I know it can be hard.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Its not the reading parts, it is the crap links which feeds wrong information. With 24 hour news sources and bad opinions from the writers which feeds into frenzies.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)That was adorable.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)Who is this Anti-Spying group? What crimes have been committed?
The OP contains quite specific information. What is your specific information?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)Are YOU for the spying?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)authorized to give to persons who are not cleared to receive the information. Spying happens all the time, in every country but I am not paranoid about the collection of phone call records being collected or passed to the NSA.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)And as far I'm concerned, the NSA ought to be disbanded.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)being disband, so can I put you in the "Anti-Spying Group".
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Please add me to the "anti-spying group".
christx30
(6,241 posts)Such a wonderful sentiment.
barbtries
(28,808 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,336 posts)As we have noted elsewhere, we are concerned that the executive branch's decade-long reliance on a secret body of surveillance law has given rise to a culture of misinformation, and led senior officials to repeatedly make misleading statements to the public, Congress and the courts about domestic surveillance. The way to end this culture of misinformation and restore the public trust is to acknowledge and correct inaccurate statements when they are made, and not seek to ignore or justify them.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1159181-051314-udall-wyden-response-to-doj-response.html
And the NYT article: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/14/us/justice-dept-criticized-on-spying-statements.html?_r=1
stanchaz
(50 posts)Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Is that soooo hard to understand, dear NSA? Heck, it's not even in code!
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)phone call records?
christx30
(6,241 posts)Every breath you take
Every move you make
Every bond you break
Every step you take
I'll be watching you.
Every single day
Every word you say
Every game you play
Every night you stay
I'll be watching you
The Constitution means nothing to the NSA. They find cowardly and deceptive ways to get around it. They get laws passed to skirt the 4th amendment. Gotta get Senators and Reps into office that can neuter them. They will not do it on their own.
And we need to get charges against them for lying to congress.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)busterbrown
(8,515 posts)Isnt it a fact that all tyrannical dictatorships past and future could just do about anything they wanted to do under the umbrella of safety...For instance gather up all Occupy demonstrators and indefinitely detain them because they represent a danger to our country...For instance by harboring potential terrorists..
Isnt this a potential consequence of remaining out of the loop of this complicated news event??.
Just because so many of us have neglected this huge story because we feel we have nothing to worry about (" no connection at all to terrorism, as a matter of fact I say kill em all) does not mean that we are safe from govts.which lie directly to our faces..