So, WHAT Do Obamacare Opponents Want?

[DemocratsForProgress]

Proud Liberal Dem: So, WHAT Do Obamacare Opponents Want?

I’ve been seeing a barrage of articles critical of the ACA today, and – sensing blood in the water – the teabagging sharks are out in full force today as well, posting their bile against the law all over Facebook and message boards everywhere. I also just saw a post on my FB feed from a talk radio host about how unions are even getting upset about the law. It seems as though the closer the law gets to full implementation, the more upset and unhinged people are getting over it. What upsets and aggravates me most about all of the kerfuffle is that:

A) Some people don’t want to give the law a chance and are being way too quick to label it a failure and push for repeal – even though it hasn’t been fully implemented yet. Even some well-meaning people are getting worked up over some of the (potentially) negative things that *could* happen that they have heard from the media – though it’s impossible to know for sure how things will realistically play out. Some Democrats – like Senator Max Baucus (who largely helped craft the law) – are not being very helpful by claiming that implementation is going to be a “trainwreck.” Yeah, thanks a lot, Max!

B) Some of the difficulties being experienced with implementation are undoubtedly caused by the resistance in right-wing states that have refused to take advantage of Medicaid expansion and have worked to undermine the law in other ways, not to mention that some corporations have made their own efforts (reducing hours, dropping health coverage) to help upset people and scapegoat the law...

More at: http://www.democratsforprogress.com/2013/07/21/so-what-do-obamacare-opponents-want/

[Nay]

1. As a person who's wary of the impact ACA will have on actual health care, I am most

afraid that fooling around with an insurance-industry-written and mandated health insurance system will, in the end, destroy any possibility of actual health care reform, like single payer.

All the teabaggers and their Pub masters will make sure the system works as badly as possible, so they can crow about how awful govt run health care is, even tho the ACA is NOT govt run healthcare. IOW, it is a bastard mashup of a formerly Republican 'health care' plan that will help a few in the short run, and destroy the idea of real govt run health care for a generation.

The fact that many companies are reducing hours and dropping health coverage in order to game the system in their favor, with complicity of the govt, tells me a lot about who ACA is really for.

[area51]

15. +1 n/t

[Thinkingabout]

2. Speaking for myself I like having an insurance card when I need medical care. Once this plan is

full force and the prices of premiums are going lower then they will not be able to do anything but whine because they was not able to get health care passed. I am not saying it is a perfect bill but sure better than no bill. Once all the parts are put into place the House will probably just retire because the GOP House will not have any reason for convening, no repeal of the ACA.

[JayhawkSD]

18. Prices for individual policies, yes

Prices for group policies are not mentioned in any of the headlines, and vastly more people are covered by group policies than by individual ones. The rates for my group policy went up by between 2% and 5% each year intil the ACA passed. Then it went up by 28%, 35% and 25% this year. That comes to a 116% increase, more than doubling, in three years.

[Thinkingabout]

25. In insurance exchanges the rates are going down. I know of some who have insurance through Paychex

which quotes group rates to those who receive their paychecks through their company. Several states which have set up their exchanges rates are shown to be much smaller. Also maybe unknown the insurance companies are on a percentage of their rates has to go to health care and already refunds have been given. There have been group rates for many years through different organizations. The best thing which could have happened would have been a single payer plan but we had to start somewhere. Don't fall for this rw crap.

[onehandle]

3. They want a white President to reform health care. nt

[Brigid]

8. Our winner.

So sad and yet so true.

[Doctor_J]

10. Unadulterated horse shit

we want actual reform, preferably without 20% profit taken by shareholders before the actual health care is dispensed. Whatever the race, gender, age, religion, or party of the president who accomplishes this

[geek tragedy]

14. "We want". Ha, you're defending the House Republicans. nt

[Doctor_J]

16. House Republicans want socialized medicine?

Link?

[geek tragedy]

17. This is a thread about Obamacare opponents in the Tea Party

and you came in speaking in defense of said critics in the first person plural.

Sorry that you've thrown in with the Louie Gohmert/Michelle Bachmann repeal at all costs coalition instead of those who want Obamacare to work as well as possible and also be improved.

[JayhawkSD]

19. It only says "opponents"

If the OP wanted it to be about "tea party opponents" then the post should have been written as "What do tea party opponents want?" You may be a mind reader, but most of us are not.

[geek tragedy]

21. There is no meaningful, principled 'opposition' to the ACA on the left, nor

should there be. There are those who think it's inadequate and need to be improved, but the repeal/obstruct caucus is 99% rightwingers and 1% dumb-ass lefties who serve as the rightwingers' useful idiots.

[JayhawkSD]

23. Then I am unprincipled and not meaningful

I am not a "dumb-ass lefty who serves as the rightwingers' useful idiot." I will not stoop to your level by calling you names.

The so-called "health care reform" strengthened the insurance industry, doubled the cost of my health insurance before it even went into effect, drove my favorite doctor out of medical practice with its confrontational rhetoric, and did nothing to reduce the amount charged by doctors, hospitals and drug companies. It does some good, but the harm it does outweighs the good, and far from being a "step in the right direction" it will serve as a panacea, allowing us to think we've solved a problem and delay doing what actually needs to be done.

Or perhaps you might think that I'm not "on the left," which would have my family in hysterics, since they have picturea of an Obama poster in my living room window and on my car. They had me take a quiz to determine my social and political position and it showed that I was somewhere to the left of Desmond Tutu. Come to think of it, I once travelled from Atlanta to Washington DC specifically to hear Desmond Tutu speak at National Cathedral.

Your problem with me is that I think things through, and consider policies on their merits rather than being a knee-jerk reactionary.

[geek tragedy]

26. Obamacare doubled your costs and forced your doctor out of business

"with its confrontational rhetoric?"

Cool story bro.

[Doctor_J]

28. this subthread claims that anyone who opposes ACA is a racist

that is horse shit.

[kestrel91316]

4. They want the poor to suffer and die. You couldn't figure this

out on your own?? They see the poor as a burden on the rich, and they figure the best way to unburden themselves is to starve them and neglect their health. Death of those they see as unworthy is the goal of their policies.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

6. "suffer" being the operative word here

Once they're dead, the poor can't be used to generate medical and drug profits.

[JayhawkSD]

20. Citations and quotes please.

What Tea Party menber has ever said, "I want poor people to suffer and die" please? Where did that person say it? A video clip on YouTube would be preferable, but a name, date and venue would suffice.

[kestrel91316]

27. Ooooohhhh, we got us a genuine teabagger water carrier and apologist right here!

Go do your own homework. I don't owe you or anybody else any links when I am expressing my opinion.

If you pay any attention at all to the teabaggers you'll come to the exact same conclusion, unless you are a blind supporter.

[Freddie]

5. They want the "system" we had

They want people to be chained to their employers for health care. And if you don't have the vast good fortune of employer sponsored insurance, well, tough shit. Die, go to the ER, file for bankruptcy, lose your home and all your savings, live on the street. Taker.

[jmowreader]

12. Exactly right.

From an employer's standpoint, the very worst part of the whole Obamacare package is portability - the ability to take a healthcare policy from job to job. Most of us would think that's a good thing, but most of us don't run 200,000-employee companies where half the staff has the same attitude: I hate my fucking job and I'd quit in a minute but I can't afford to lose my health insurance.

I don't think guys like the Kochs really care about the money part of Obamacare. They can expense it off their corporate income tax anyway, negotiate contracts, whatever it takes to make it almost free. What they care about: Obamacare has made it possible for an aggrieved employee to tell an abusive boss to go fuck himself, and that simply will not do.

[JayhawkSD]

22. Again, citation please.

What Tea Party menber has ever said, "I want poor people to suffer and die" please? Where did that person say it? A video clip on YouTube would be preferable, but a name, date and venue would suffice.

"They want people to be chained to their employers for health care."

Actually, no employers currently provide health care (very few ever did), and virtually without exception they very much want to get rid of having to provide health insurance. It is a costly overhead burden. Have you not read the many articles about companies increasing part time hiring in order to avoid having to provide health insurance?

[malokvale77]

7. How about healthcare

[Dan]

9. The Insurance industry has a very big lobby...

[yurbud]

11. I wanted something more like Medicare for All, but I'm withholding judgment about whether Ocare

helps or hurts or is a wash.

[geek tragedy]

13. They want poor people to die rather than getting medical care. nt

[bemildred]

24. Feudalism, near as I can tell. nt