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midnight

(26,624 posts)
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 01:09 AM Jun 2012

ROBERT F KENNEDY JR: The 2004 Presidential election was stolen via institutional fraud

I. The Exit Polls
The first indication that something was gravely amiss on November 2nd, 2004, was the inexplicable discrepancies between exit polls and actual vote counts. Polls in thirty states weren't just off the mark -- they deviated to an extent that cannot be accounted for by their margin of error. In all but four states, the discrepancy favored President Bush.(16)

Over the past decades, exit polling has evolved into an exact science. Indeed, among pollsters and statisticians, such surveys are thought to be the most reliable. Unlike pre-election polls, in which voters are asked to predict their own behavior at some point in the future, exit polls ask voters leaving the voting booth to report an action they just executed. The results are exquisitely accurate: Exit polls in Germany, for example, have never missed the mark by more than three-tenths of one percent.(17) ''Exit polls are almost never wrong,'' Dick Morris, a political consultant who has worked for both Republicans and Democrats, noted after the 2004 vote. Such surveys are ''so reliable,'' he added, ''that they are used as guides to the relative honesty of elections in Third World countries.''(18) In 2003, vote tampering revealed by exit polling in the Republic of Georgia forced Eduard Shevardnadze to step down.(19) And in November 2004, exit polling in the Ukraine -- paid for by the Bush administration -- exposed election fraud that denied Viktor Yushchenko the presidency.(20)

But that same month, when exit polls revealed disturbing disparities in the U.S. election, the six media organizations that had commissioned the survey treated its very existence as an embarrassment. Instead of treating the discrepancies as a story meriting investigation, the networks scrubbed the offending results from their Web sites and substituted them with ''corrected'' numbers that had been weighted, retroactively, to match the official vote count. Rather than finding fault with the election results, the mainstream media preferred to dismiss the polls as flawed.(21)

''The people who ran the exit polling, and all those of us who were their clients, recognized that it was deeply flawed,'' says Tom Brokaw, who served as anchor for NBC News during the 2004 election. ''They were really screwed up -- the old models just don't work anymore. I would not go on the air with them again.''http://wisconsinwave.org/news/robert-f-kennedy-jr-2004-presidential-election-was-stolen-institutional-fraud

The explanation of the 2004 exit polls contradict Tom's explanation.....

94 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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ROBERT F KENNEDY JR: The 2004 Presidential election was stolen via institutional fraud (Original Post) midnight Jun 2012 OP
and the fact that neither party will touch this problem bbgrunt Jun 2012 #1
Chalk it up to MORE damage done by the fantasy of American Exceptionalism. TrollBuster9090 Jun 2012 #10
I don't think it's the"Greatest Show on Earth". It's a sordid mess. ladjf Jun 2012 #19
Most Americans are too busy "scratching" to earn a living to pay much attention. xtraxritical Jun 2012 #28
With a healthy chervilant Jun 2012 #39
Very well put. Maynar Jun 2012 #82
The polls in Wis had Barrett and Walker dead even. MrTwister Jun 2012 #2
This is very troubling. roody Jun 2012 #3
Wisconsin stinks on ice Botany Jun 2012 #25
Tom began his toady career in January 2001 and never stopped. He valued his position more than the freshwest Jun 2012 #4
I resinate with what you indicate here about both Toddy and Robert Kennedy Jr. midnight Jun 2012 #6
Thanks. freshwest Jun 2012 #9
Kick. I happened to re-read this the other day and I'm glad you posted it. pa28 Jun 2012 #5
+ 1,0000 n/t MBS Jun 2012 #18
Yes, it is time..... Jake2413 Jun 2012 #55
Spam deleted by gkhouston (MIR Team) Roy1122 Jun 2012 #7
Can never be said too many times... Republicans have ruined this country through their cheating gtar100 Jun 2012 #8
Huh? Who backed away from this issue in 2004 like they truedelphi Jun 2012 #12
Right! dougolat Jun 2012 #14
Easy there. Maybe we're not supposed to say that. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #33
And he did the right thing. There is no smoking gun to be had. stevenleser Jun 2012 #35
I disagree. There was more than enough evidence to warrant an investigation. truckin Jun 2012 #43
In what you said, the key is that you agreed there is no smoking gun. That being the case, its over. stevenleser Jun 2012 #46
Thanks to our President politicasista Jun 2012 #77
You are correct if your only goal is to have the election overturned. But how about catching truckin Jun 2012 #89
I agree 100%. n/t MBS Jun 2012 #93
Maybe going after those that are part of the problem politicasista Jun 2012 #78
And yet people in this thread still hold grudges the Senator politicasista Jun 2012 #76
Don't doubt for a moment that there are dark forces that do this within our country... jimlup Jun 2012 #11
Originally published on June 1st, 2006. How Kerry Votes Were Switched To Bush Votes in 2008 L. Coyote Jun 2012 #57
Great stuff. go west young man Jun 2012 #13
What is this "new Democratic party" of which you speak? pscot Jun 2012 #26
As I recall, it was Kerry who folded. Gore did fight. n/t davidwparker Jun 2012 #54
Kerry folded like rice paper, actually dissolving right before our eyes.. 2banon Jun 2012 #63
Yep. Let's blame ONLY Kerry politicasista Jun 2012 #73
lol politicasista Jun 2012 #75
if ever there was a year to watch close, this is it ThomThom Jun 2012 #15
" " " " " n/t MBS Jun 2012 #17
That is why they are yelling "fraud" and purging the voting lists. Frustratedlady Jun 2012 #22
Simple - the Dem 'machine' was never with Gore or Kerry - it still belonged to Clintons then blm Jun 2012 #30
Spot On!!!!......Deans abandement by the " DLC" spoke volumns as to the neutered direction of lostnote12 Jun 2012 #48
EXACTLY. n/t MBS Jun 2012 #94
See my #35 above regarding Gore and Kerry. nt stevenleser Jun 2012 #36
Unfortunately, people would rather bash Kerry and praise Gore and politicasista Jun 2012 #79
This message was self-deleted by its author politicasista Jun 2012 #81
Happy to see this resurface again KaryninMiami Jun 2012 #16
Americans are too sleepy in their ignorant funk to wake up to the ladjf Jun 2012 #20
Wonderful read. I just posted this on Facebook. n/t Misskittycat Jun 2012 #21
Thank you... I noticed earlier that the face book was marked but now it's not... Don't know what midnight Jun 2012 #86
How do you fix a systemic problem like this? I'd truly would like to know? shcrane71 Jun 2012 #23
My grandson and I were watching the results that evening and it looked really good for Kerry BanzaiBonnie Jun 2012 #24
Have Privatized Voting, Will Cheat Blue Owl Jun 2012 #27
I agree.... midnight Jun 2012 #88
Anyone that believed Walker would lose Madmiddle Jun 2012 #29
SOMEONE please investigate this!!! young_at_heart Jun 2012 #31
Yes, here you go L. Coyote Jun 2012 #58
Ask your local and state reps first, then look to the federal level n/t politicasista Jun 2012 #84
The fact that those in power will not investigate this says a lot. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #32
Maybe their intentions, wants, needs aren't the same as ours. Maybe our "friends", aren't. n/t jtuck004 Jun 2012 #34
It's hard to take RFK Jr seriously after his anti-vac/autism articles and advocacy. stopbush Jun 2012 #37
He has always seemed pretty rational and measured to me. glinda Jun 2012 #40
Do a search on "RFK Jr autism" and get back to me. stopbush Jun 2012 #83
I'm not sure what your talking about, but his credibility has always been spot on for me... midnight Jun 2012 #87
You beat me, I was going to post the same thing. Odin2005 Jun 2012 #91
Yes, and Tom Brokaw chervilant Jun 2012 #38
Brokaw makes his dough off geezers. As a geezer myself, I think he's got a lot of moxie! MADem Jun 2012 #42
It's been known since the mid eighties that the guy truedelphi Jun 2012 #65
I see this was written before his wife hanged herself. I was thinking it was a bit of "bad timing" MADem Jun 2012 #41
I was on the ground in Florida TomClash Jun 2012 #44
When our Democratic leaders failed us on this issue, they sealed the truedelphi Jun 2012 #59
!00 % Dead On colsohlibgal Jun 2012 #45
Consortium Report scheduled for release the week of 9/11....? lostnote12 Jun 2012 #47
The New York Times announced that the vote count in truedelphi Jun 2012 #60
thank you for clarification.....not that it represents "actionable evidence"....it sure looks lostnote12 Jun 2012 #62
I have been thinking about this most of the day, and I'm so glad you posted this... midnight Jun 2012 #85
Heartfelt Kudos To Kucinich for posting Diebolds FTP files on......... lostnote12 Jun 2012 #49
Another good indicator was when GWB's cousin over at Fox News tanyev Jun 2012 #50
We need another Smedley Butler, and pronto 99th_Monkey Jun 2012 #51
I heard a remark recently that I totally agree with....... lostnote12 Jun 2012 #53
"Exit polls in Germany, for example, have never missed the mark" - Germany has better math. davidwparker Jun 2012 #52
Do you suppose they let Obama win? Blanks Jun 2012 #56
You can pull fraud with close races in the US, you can't reverse a landslide DFW Jun 2012 #68
K&R'd!!! snot Jun 2012 #61
I drove from Chicago to Akron to help get out the vote for Kerry Martin Eden Jun 2012 #64
Maine & Iowa Blanks Jun 2012 #66
Some DUers write this off as "conspiracy theory" Doctor_J Jun 2012 #67
But there's another explanation. caseymoz Jun 2012 #69
Funny how that doesn't discourage us from judging elections in other countries by exit poll results Overseas Jun 2012 #70
Yes, funny, so do you know how did they control for it? caseymoz Jun 2012 #72
K&R. Still painful that electronic voting remains in force. We have enough unemployed people to Overseas Jun 2012 #71
Glad that people like Gore, RFK and President Obama... politicasista Jun 2012 #74
Some of the 2004 Exit Polls Matilda Jun 2012 #80
This is really a great picture of what is going on throughout the country.... midnight Jun 2012 #90
I'm sorry, no. Matilda Jun 2012 #92

bbgrunt

(5,281 posts)
1. and the fact that neither party will touch this problem
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 01:29 AM
Jun 2012

is a glaring admission that it is all kabuki theater that will continue as long as the public has this unquenchable desire to believe in their fantasy that they live in the greatest nation on earth.

It's more like the greatest show on earth.

TrollBuster9090

(5,954 posts)
10. Chalk it up to MORE damage done by the fantasy of American Exceptionalism.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 02:50 AM
Jun 2012

America was exceptional because we were the first government to be founded on rationalism. As soon as we surrendered rationalism to nationalism we renounced the exceptionalism.

 

xtraxritical

(3,576 posts)
28. Most Americans are too busy "scratching" to earn a living to pay much attention.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 11:17 AM
Jun 2012
Vote a straight Democratic ballot and overwhelm them!
 

MrTwister

(76 posts)
2. The polls in Wis had Barrett and Walker dead even.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 01:37 AM
Jun 2012

Walker won by 7 percentage points.

Yup, nothing to see there . . . move along.

Botany

(70,510 posts)
25. Wisconsin stinks on ice
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 10:32 AM
Jun 2012

They hit every metric for voter turn out in Madison and Milwaukee and in
many red counties more signatures were turned in to get Walker recalled than
voted for him in 2010.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
4. Tom began his toady career in January 2001 and never stopped. He valued his position more than the
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 01:41 AM
Jun 2012
Truth or he would have been run off just like Dan Rather. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. will never stop telling the truth until he draws his last breath. Hopefully when that sad day comes, his words will live on. And the Reichwing will never stop smearing him.

pa28

(6,145 posts)
5. Kick. I happened to re-read this the other day and I'm glad you posted it.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 01:46 AM
Jun 2012

Some key takeaways from the article:

1 Exit polling in our own country was highly accurate until the year 2000.

2 In German elections exit polls have never deviated more than one third of one percent from the actual results.

3 Exit polls have been used by our government to successfully detect fraud in foreign elections.

4 Media pundits and political spinners have accounted for large discrepancies by saying Republicans are less likely to respond to an exit poll. The facts say otherwise but instead of investigating the problem they just labeled it with a cute nickname. "Red Shift".

The Carter Center has observed elections in developed countries using objective tools to detect fraud. Maybe it's time for them to look at our own process.



gtar100

(4,192 posts)
8. Can never be said too many times... Republicans have ruined this country through their cheating
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 02:29 AM
Jun 2012

and lies that they spread everyday. Yet they have the arrogance to blame the resulting problems on Liberals.

Republicans are dicks.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
12. Huh? Who backed away from this issue in 2004 like they
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 03:25 AM
Jun 2012

Were being handed a very hot potato?

And just who came up with $$ 100,000 to help with a recount in Ohio right after that 2004 election? While Kerry apparently didn't want to bother the election attorneys that his campaign had financed.

Answer to question one: The democrats

Answer to question two: David Cobb of the Green Party and Ralph Nader of the American Independent Party.

dougolat

(716 posts)
14. Right!
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 04:48 AM
Jun 2012

If financial crime is too big to fail, and thus too big to jail,
then election fraud is too enormous to talk about, and too enormous to face!

LBJ decided that when the REPtilians made deals with the North Vietnamese.
Carter decided that when they made a deal with Iran.
I think Gore made that decision in late Nov. 2000, and Kerry before his debates, even!

With that much precedence, now it really IS too damn enormous.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
35. And he did the right thing. There is no smoking gun to be had.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 12:20 PM
Jun 2012

You only contest an election if there is a strong chance of uncovering a smoking gun. Otherwise, you look like a sore loser and the Repugs will paint you that way and the public will buy it.

Ohio in 2004, like Florida in 2000, was stolen long before election day with maneuverings that denied access to the ballot through disenfranchisement, restrictive rules, and inadequate resources for casting votes in highly democratic precincts.

When that is the case, there is no smoking gun and there is nothing to be gained and a lot to lose by fighting it. The time to fight those kinds of things is in the 4-16 months BEFORE THE ELECTION.

truckin

(576 posts)
43. I disagree. There was more than enough evidence to warrant an investigation.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 03:17 PM
Jun 2012

Richard Hayes Phillips' book "Witness to a Crime" lays it out nicely. He went all around the state examining poll books and over 30,000 ballots and came to the conclusion that Kerry probably won. Was there one smoking gun? No but there was death by a thousand cuts. If we wait for the smoking gun we will never repair our broken election system.

There was plenty of supression before the election but there was more done on election day, and after, when the recount was rigged. Kerry was afraid of looking like a sore loser so he forfeited the chance to count everyone's vote to save his political career and another possible run for POTUS. If he was willing to sacrifice his career to find out the truth, things might be different right now.

You are right the public will go along with the media who will portray the Dems has sore losers. But if we always let that stop us we will never be able to expose an election process that is broken. Someone with a lot of credibility, like Kerry, is going to have to stand up and take the hit for us to have any chance at all to fix this.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
46. In what you said, the key is that you agreed there is no smoking gun. That being the case, its over.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 05:32 PM
Jun 2012

No investigation is going to lead to the necessary votes that give Kerry the election in 2004. The slight difference in 2000 is that Gore would have won with a full recount, but just barely. The fact is that Gore wins Florida in 2000 by a full percentage point or more if there is no Katherine Harris purge. That purge is when the stealing of the election was done and there is nothing a recount or investigation can do to give those votes back or predict with 100% certainty for whom the disenfranchised people would have voted.

The time to fight disenfranchisement ends 3-4 months before election day. That is when voter registrations typically close and the rules for conducting the election and amount of voting machines is pretty much in place. That is why what the Obama DOJ is doing regarding the Florida voter purges now is so important. A recount cannot account for those things. If that is what someone has used to steal an election, there is no going back.

politicasista

(14,128 posts)
77. Thanks to our President
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:10 AM
Jun 2012

for learning those lessons and having some Kerry people on his 08 campaign, maybe some for the 12 run.

Good for him. He knows how to use his alies rather than hold a 8 year grudge.

truckin

(576 posts)
89. You are correct if your only goal is to have the election overturned. But how about catching
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 08:43 AM
Jun 2012

the crooks who committed the fraud and putting them in jail. Maybe this will discourage the next person from doing this. Also, if you make public the methods that are used to flip the vote maybe it can be stopped in future elections. We need to get away from this all or nothing mentality and start chipping away at this problem or we will never get anywhere.

politicasista

(14,128 posts)
78. Maybe going after those that are part of the problem
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:11 AM
Jun 2012

but facts never get in the way of Kerry bashing.

politicasista

(14,128 posts)
76. And yet people in this thread still hold grudges the Senator
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:08 AM
Jun 2012

Last edited Wed Jun 13, 2012, 02:23 AM - Edit history (1)

instead of people who SHOULD get the blame.

Thank you for your common sense in this thread.

jimlup

(7,968 posts)
11. Don't doubt for a moment that there are dark forces that do this within our country...
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 03:15 AM
Jun 2012

who do things like this and worse. The Bush administration was only a couple of plausible denials away from knowing these people personally. But they don't actually have to know them. The $'ed interests buy stuff. And when you have several billion to spare... you can hire lots of black ops who kill anyone who stumbles on your trail. It is just organized crime on a global scale.

Remember how Bush was wired for the first debate with Kerry? And nobody bothered to cover the story - ever. If you mention it people still look like you are insane yet the evidence was actually overwhelming.

I saw a post today by someone admitting to waking up to the truth about the mainstream media. What a farcical job they (the mainstream media) do.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
57. Originally published on June 1st, 2006. How Kerry Votes Were Switched To Bush Votes in 2008
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:47 PM
Jun 2012

The 2004 Ohio Presidential Election: Cuyahoga County Analysis
How Kerry Votes Were Switched To Bush Votes © 2008
http://jqjacobs.net/politics/ohio.html

Preface

Simply put, Ohio votes were NOT all counted as cast. Many votes were miscounted, and Kerry votes were counted for Bush. Numerous questions have been raised about the fairness of the 2004 Presidential election in the United States of America (US). In this study I focus on one election issue, punch card cross-voting—how votes cast one way were counted other than as intended, as a vote for a different candidate or option. Punch card voting has been replaced and, with so many election issues, this most egregious of flaws—counting votes wrong—has seemingly been overshadowed by e-voting and reform concerns. I also focus on a particular region with one-tenth of the Ohio vote, Cuyahoga County, where recount crimes have detracted from miscounting the vote. The 2004 recount issue focused attention away from cross-voting. Cross-votes recount the same and, hence, are an entirely distinct issue.

In 2000, the US post-election focus was on Florida, on fairness of punch card voting, on vote count accuracy, and on incomplete counting. In 2004, Ohio's failure to replace punch card voting with improved systems is just one of many issues raised with regard to the Ohio 2004 Presidential election. Other Ohio fairness, fraud, and irregularity issues include politicization of process, voter registration fraud, voter purging and suppression including racial discrimination and unfair voting machine distribution, the exit poll inaccuracy, electronic voting security, paperless e-voting, e-vote flipping, the high percentage of and unequal distribution of undervotes, uncounted provisional ballots, vote count secrecy, recount crimes and irregularities, and official loss of and/or destruction of evidence.

...............

 

go west young man

(4,856 posts)
13. Great stuff.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 03:26 AM
Jun 2012

This is the Republican fraud playbook laid out nicely by Mr. Kennedy. Hopefully the new Democratic party will be prepared better to deal with it this time around and not roll over after fraud is so obvious. Kerry and Gore both disappointed myself when they quickly conceded those two elections. Any sane person could see fraud took place. There is no such thing as a sore loser when you have the truth on your side.

pscot

(21,024 posts)
26. What is this "new Democratic party" of which you speak?
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 10:42 AM
Jun 2012

Not that we don't need a New Democratic Party.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
63. Kerry folded like rice paper, actually dissolving right before our eyes..
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 09:42 PM
Jun 2012

some might quibble with regard to how much effort Gore put in to the fight, I'm not sure the criticism against him on that front was fair. I think he tried..

but Kerry is another story altogether. I was dismayed with him on a number of occasions during the campaign, the debate w/bush had me screaming at my tv, even using obscenities with so many of his responses. Shouldn't have come as a surprise when he conceded first thing the following morning of the elections, but the betrayal went deep just the same.

I'm reminded of his existence on the rare appearances he makes in the media these past several years.... don't think much of him otherwise, unfortunately.

politicasista

(14,128 posts)
73. Yep. Let's blame ONLY Kerry
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:03 AM
Jun 2012

The GOP loves it when we throw our own under the bus. Let's just throw out everything else he does as Senator because he let ME down.


Thanks for letting McAuful and Dems off the hook.

Thankfully, our POTUS shows more respect for Senator Kerry than you or most here ever will. More power to Obama.

Frustratedlady

(16,254 posts)
22. That is why they are yelling "fraud" and purging the voting lists.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:47 AM
Jun 2012

They always scream that the Democrats are doing exactly as they are doing right in front of us. I've had such a sick feeling about this upcoming election. Not only the election, itself, but the run-up to the election.

What has always haunted me is why Gore and Kerry didn't fight more after they lost? Why didn't the Democrats dig into it, even if it wasn't in the courts? They could have formed a group of Democrats to research and analyze both elections. It was too important to drop.

What about those two young men who were killed? One, with the evidence in his briefcase (from Florida) who mysteriously suicided himelf in a motel just over the border and one in a plane crash? Weren't they both involved in setting up the software/system for the voting machine manipulation and the secret Republican email site?

With their warped minds, what will 2012 bring? I can't bear the thought...




blm

(113,063 posts)
30. Simple - the Dem 'machine' was never with Gore or Kerry - it still belonged to Clintons then
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 11:32 AM
Jun 2012

and they had 2008 in the works. You never saw Terry McAuliffe lift a finger from Jan2001 thru Nov2004 to strengthen the party structurally, especially in key states like Ohio and Florida where the party itself was weakened and collapsed in the years before 2000 and 2004 elections. Howard Dean and his DNC practically had to rebuild Ohio's infrastructure from scratch.

lostnote12

(159 posts)
48. Spot On!!!!......Deans abandement by the " DLC" spoke volumns as to the neutered direction of
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 06:00 PM
Jun 2012

...........the Democratic power base.....I guess they were attempting to act like adults, since that is always the Rep. mantra.....

politicasista

(14,128 posts)
79. Unfortunately, people would rather bash Kerry and praise Gore and
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:13 AM
Jun 2012

disregard facts.

Guess that people will never ever forgive him for beating _____ and 2004.

Response to Frustratedlady (Reply #22)

KaryninMiami

(3,073 posts)
16. Happy to see this resurface again
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 07:26 AM
Jun 2012

When a similar piece by RFK jr came out in Rolling Stone, many of us thought (and prayed) this story- the the fact that our electronic voting machines and the rest of the process was illegal-would reach critical mass. So many of us begged and pleaded with the mainstream media and national news outlets to cover this story but they didn't and wouldn't do it. So here we are again in 2012 using the same rigged machines, more advanced voting purging processes and a higher level of disenfranchisement then ever before.

When will America WAKE UP?

ladjf

(17,320 posts)
20. Americans are too sleepy in their ignorant funk to wake up to the
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:12 AM
Jun 2012

realities of fraudulent politics. In short, they are too dumb to think effectively.

midnight

(26,624 posts)
86. Thank you... I noticed earlier that the face book was marked but now it's not... Don't know what
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 02:22 AM
Jun 2012

that is but thanks...

BanzaiBonnie

(3,621 posts)
24. My grandson and I were watching the results that evening and it looked really good for Kerry
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 10:19 AM
Jun 2012

When we got up the next next morning and saw it had completely flipped during the wee hours, my 9 year old grandson said, "they cheated." And I still believe that.

I lost all trust in mainstream news at that point. It's why I flew to DC for the un-nauguration. I wanted to witness for myself what I could no longer trust from MSM. It looked to me like about half of those at the event were there to protest.

Blue Owl

(50,393 posts)
27. Have Privatized Voting, Will Cheat
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 11:15 AM
Jun 2012

Privatized, non-transparent voting/tabulation process leaves the door wide open.

 

Madmiddle

(459 posts)
29. Anyone that believed Walker would lose
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 11:32 AM
Jun 2012

weren't paying attention to the huge amount of money that said he wouldn't. After the two stolen "W" election it's time to declare war on republicans period. They can't win and they do? Huge story there but no journalist left to bring this story out. There's absolutely no doubt what's going on.

young_at_heart

(3,768 posts)
31. SOMEONE please investigate this!!!
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 11:35 AM
Jun 2012

Also, the 2000 election. George W. has always been tainted with this scandal---his family must be so ashamed. And also talk to Karl rove (good luck getting any truth from him)!

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
58. Yes, here you go
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:51 PM
Jun 2012
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101631531#post57

Someone do the rest of Ohio, and all previous Ohio punch-card elections. With voting systems designed to easily steal votes, results might be extremely indicting!!

stopbush

(24,396 posts)
37. It's hard to take RFK Jr seriously after his anti-vac/autism articles and advocacy.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 12:30 PM
Jun 2012

He's more prone to falling for conspiracy theories than is Jessie Ventura. His claims about how the vote was stolen in Ohio in 2004 for bush are ridiculous and bizarre.

Too bad, because he could be doing a lot of good on environmental issues etc if he didn't see a conspiracy behind every problem we face.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
38. Yes, and Tom Brokaw
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 01:43 PM
Jun 2012

exemplifies the partisan propagandist stance of most 'journalists' du jour. Does he really believe that his legacy will be the high regard of those of us who recognize his deceit?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
42. Brokaw makes his dough off geezers. As a geezer myself, I think he's got a lot of moxie!
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 03:06 PM
Jun 2012

And not in a good way, either! Every time I see him haul out one of those "Greatest Generation" books or specials, I can't help but be reminded of that guy who told an earnest young reporter at one of those D-Day memorial events, during the Bushco years, "Up your ass!"

It was all in response to the reporter asking the guy his age. The guy said he was eighty four years old, the reporter fawningly corrected "84 years YOUNG, you mean!" That was the old soldier's unvarnished response!


Browkaw'd be better off making and selling talking Brokaw dolls that say annoying things featuring the letter L.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
65. It's been known since the mid eighties that the guy
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 09:56 PM
Jun 2012

Was CIA. Nothing gets my blood pressure going more than when he gets to speak for the Baby Boomer generation, prattling on about how he loved the music and the clothes.

Yeah you were some hippy, Tom boy. I suspect the real reason you went to concerts on the weekend was that you were a narcotics agent before they figured you to be their big media guy.


MADem

(135,425 posts)
41. I see this was written before his wife hanged herself. I was thinking it was a bit of "bad timing"
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 02:52 PM
Jun 2012

before I saw the date of the article.

TomClash

(11,344 posts)
44. I was on the ground in Florida
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 04:32 PM
Jun 2012

And I reported to the DNC by phone (as they were happening) actual instances where people were forced to use provisional ballots who clearly were eligible. Nothing ever happened.

Note that both elections Rove ran, the Republicans won. He sat out 2008 and he's back for 2012.

Mark my words. President Obama will lose because the 2012 election will be stolen. There will be a lot of talk, a few protests and then Romney will be President. And we will all just sit there and take it.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
59. When our Democratic leaders failed us on this issue, they sealed the
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 09:03 PM
Jun 2012

Party's fate. And it will be really hard to grieve for Obama losing, if he does. He has been President long enough to tackle this issue.

Maybe his DOJ going after the voter list purges in Florida indicates a change of direction?

But one other thing - there are very few penalties to those on the other side of the aisle that steal the elections. Not only do the Democrats let them do it, even if they do get found guilty, the law doesn't allow for very much in the way of penalty.

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
45. !00 % Dead On
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 04:32 PM
Jun 2012

I worked the 2004 election....as the day wore on, and the polls closed, dems all over were overjoyed, republicans right up to the White House glum. It was party time for we on the left. Then all of a sudden, presto chango, it was topsy turvy in an instant. As time wore on we were told that the always quite accurate exit polling was wrong, not the actual result.

The final "official" tally was a mirror image of the poll, it was all flipped.

This was after the stunning 2000 coup facilitated by the Supreme Court....and the fact that in the deciding state brother Jeb was governor and the head of elections, Ms Dragon Lady, was Dubya's Florida campaign manager. Gore won the popular vote and as a post mortem recount showed, actually won Florida and thus the electoral vote.

So it's clear to a lot of us that Bush was installed in 2000 and stole 2004. It's disturbing thinking of all the damage caused in those 8 years.

lostnote12

(159 posts)
47. Consortium Report scheduled for release the week of 9/11....?
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 05:33 PM
Jun 2012

...........of course everthing changed and as Lil Ari stated post 9/11, watch what you say!!!.........Investigate JFK and 911(publically) and maybe our nation can heal the wounds that have festered from within......

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
60. The New York Times announced that the vote count in
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 09:04 PM
Jun 2012

Florida, November 2000, clearly indicated that Al Gore won that election.

And that announcement was published on Sept 10th 2001.

lostnote12

(159 posts)
62. thank you for clarification.....not that it represents "actionable evidence"....it sure looks
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 09:25 PM
Jun 2012

.......Suspicious!!!!..........that and a littany of other compelling imformation

lostnote12

(159 posts)
49. Heartfelt Kudos To Kucinich for posting Diebolds FTP files on.........
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 06:19 PM
Jun 2012

... his Congressional website once it was proven that Georgias Sec of State was misleading the public as to the invunerability of Diebolds machine code....I'm certain that there are DU members from that period that can recollect the vitality of stubborness existing in the hearts of DU members at that time.....The truth will set you free or end you up in jail.....

tanyev

(42,559 posts)
50. Another good indicator was when GWB's cousin over at Fox News
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 06:26 PM
Jun 2012

was the first to call Florida for Bush in the wee hours of the morning.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
51. We need another Smedley Butler, and pronto
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 07:51 PM
Jun 2012

"In 1934, he became involved in a controversy known as the Business Plot when he told a congressional committee that a group of wealthy industrialists were planning a military coup to overthrow Franklin D. Roosevelt. The purported plot would have had Butler leading a mass of armed veterans in a march on Washington. The individuals identified denied the existence of a plot, and the media ridiculed the allegations."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

You know, someone who is so unimpeachable and so highly respected that they can, once and for all, expose how the ReThugs have been deliberately sabotaging and buggering our democracy six ways to Sunday. These are FELONIES for Christ's sake.

lostnote12

(159 posts)
53. I heard a remark recently that I totally agree with.......
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:29 PM
Jun 2012

.........Smedley Butler in all likelihood may have saved our nation w/o a shot being fired......I mentioned his name to an AF Academy graduate-retired-w/many yrs throttle experience yet he was not familiar w/ him......certainly a patented case of controlling the past as well as the present and future......Clinton stated that the Media controls our nation.....I agree!!!

davidwparker

(5,397 posts)
52. "Exit polls in Germany, for example, have never missed the mark" - Germany has better math.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:28 PM
Jun 2012

Our math is broken here.

Blanks

(4,835 posts)
56. Do you suppose they let Obama win?
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:38 PM
Jun 2012

So that they would have someone to blame everything on for the next 8 years?

It seemed like a democrat won too easily after the 2 hard fought previous presidential elections.

I don't believe for a minute that Obama is losing ground to Romney simply because Obama said "the private sector is doing fine."

That seems to be what they'd have you believe though.

The whole thing needs to be watched closely. Romney seems about as dim-witted as Dubya. I had read a story during the primaries where they were taking votes from Ron Paul and giving them to Romney.

That would be the thing to pursue at this point. If you're concerned about them stealing the election.

DFW

(54,397 posts)
68. You can pull fraud with close races in the US, you can't reverse a landslide
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 10:41 PM
Jun 2012

Yet.

Our Republicans watch what happened in Iran, for example. They scoffed in public. They studied in private.

Martin Eden

(12,869 posts)
64. I drove from Chicago to Akron to help get out the vote for Kerry
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 09:56 PM
Jun 2012

I heard the results on the way home, and I was never so disheartened in my life.

Stealing a presidential election is a crime right up there with treason.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
67. Some DUers write this off as "conspiracy theory"
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 10:12 PM
Jun 2012

even some sane people are overcome by the propaganda. Unless they're moles

caseymoz

(5,763 posts)
69. But there's another explanation.
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 11:07 PM
Jun 2012

Could a certain percentage of conservative voters be lying to the pollsters?

Aren't they known be paranoid and scornful of the press and social sciences, and might they consider those nosy polls to be a tool of both? It may significantly effect their willingness to be honest after the fact. I mean they already feel their vote is subversive, why wouldn't they respond to that feeling by hiding what they did?

I don't put it beyond them. In Wisconsin, for example, there was as much a discrepancy between the exit polls and the vote as there was between the exit polls and polls taken before the vote. The final pre-election polls showed the decision was either in the margin of error, or that Walker would be victorious. Most had him up by five or six points. Some had him up as far as seven points. Only one, I remember, had Barrett winning, by one point, that is well within the margin of error.

I don't think we've had a significant political movement that has depended upon paranoia the way modern conservatism does. They might be screwing with elections, but they might be screwing with the exit polls just as much.

If you had a poll to test people on honesty before the actual polls, maybe we could see just how much paranoia affects conservative honesty. As far as I know, every poll taken depends on the number of subjects lying to pollsters to be insignificant. This might not be true of the current Republican party, at least where it comes to pollsters.

It's why we have to get of these electronic voting machines. We can never tell.

Overseas

(12,121 posts)
70. Funny how that doesn't discourage us from judging elections in other countries by exit poll results
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 11:29 PM
Jun 2012

versus vote tallies.

caseymoz

(5,763 posts)
72. Yes, funny, so do you know how did they control for it?
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:03 AM
Jun 2012

Or did they just trust the limitless human capacity to be completely and totally honest every time? Did they actually ever test for honesty in those polls, or was it just presumed? The more you think about it, the less funny it is. It might be worth it for researchers to take a look at dishonesty and how significant it might be in some political climates. I know we're told how dead-on accurate exit polls must be, but why not examine that statement. Why would they be reliably accurate?

I'm not sure in most other countries they had Fox News, Rush Limbaugh or the Drudge Report agitating that people despise the press and intellectuals. However, you can bet in places where you would be imprisoned or killed if you didn't tell the exit pollsters you voted for the Generalissimo, those exit polls probably jived quite well with his 95 percent victory margin.

Have you ever been tempted to lie on a survey asking you about your shopping habits? For some of the the people polled outside of the station, that's how important the question of an exit pollster is. How much do you think conservatives now might be inclined to lie, especially if it makes the press and intellectuals look bad? They likely wouldn't even consider the serious consequences of a little mischief.

And I'll add: If Repubs are dishonest enough to steal elections, then the rank and file are mendacious enough to lie to pollsters. The latter is far easier, and the conservative idiots wouldn't any idea how much damage they're doing.

Overseas

(12,121 posts)
71. K&R. Still painful that electronic voting remains in force. We have enough unemployed people to
Tue Jun 12, 2012, 11:31 PM
Jun 2012

count all the votes by hand.

But that hanging chad Florida recount was supposed to make us feel like hand counting votes is just too traumatic. Too much of a strain for our country.

politicasista

(14,128 posts)
74. Glad that people like Gore, RFK and President Obama...
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:05 AM
Jun 2012

Last edited Wed Jun 13, 2012, 02:50 AM - Edit history (1)

show ten times MORE respect for Senator Kerry than most here ever will.

The GOP and Rove are cheering this thread at us throwing a decent Dem under the bus.

Matilda

(6,384 posts)
80. Some of the 2004 Exit Polls
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:15 AM
Jun 2012

[IMG][/IMG]



Paper ballots are definitely closer to the exit polls, no doubt about it.

midnight

(26,624 posts)
90. This is really a great picture of what is going on throughout the country....
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 07:47 PM
Jun 2012

Do you have a link?

Matilda

(6,384 posts)
92. I'm sorry, no.
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:10 PM
Jun 2012

I saved this page in 2004, because I was so interested in reading what was going on in the U.S. It was posted on DU by somebody else at the time.

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