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mahatmakanejeeves

(57,613 posts)
Wed May 6, 2020, 02:39 PM May 2020

No, Trump didn't order meat-processing plants to reopen

Surprise! Trump didn’t order meat-processing plants to reopen.



PostEverything • Perspective

No, Trump didn’t order meat-processing plants to reopen

The president likes to claim powers he doesn’t really have. We don’t have to go along with it.

By Daniel Hemel
Daniel Hemel is an assistant professor of law at the University of Chicago and a visiting professor at Stanford University law school.
May 4, 2020 at 8:00 a.m. EDT

Newspapers and television networks across the country reported last week that President Trump had signed an executive order compelling meat-processing plants to remain open even as their employees test positive for the coronavirus in droves. Meat and poultry executives quickly praised the president’s action, while unions condemned Trump’s order for prioritizing industry interests above workers’ lives. Predictably, Senate Republicans applauded the president, while Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and congressional Democrats derided Trump’s move. The nonprofit Environmental Working Group warned that Trump’s order could be a “death sentence” for workers.

Lost amid all of this was the fact that Trump’s order, which appeared on the White House website late Tuesday, does not actually order meat-processing plants to reopen. Indeed, it does not order the meat-processing plants to do anything. And although the president had told reporters Tuesday that his order would “solve any liability problems” that plants might face with respect to lawsuits arising from covid-19 exposures, the order does not do that either. Far from a death warrant, it is a paper-thin proclamation with limited legal effect.

There is an important lesson to be learned from the episode, even though — or rather, precisely because — the reactions on both sides blew Trump’s order out of proportion. The president’s assertions of legal authority, like his off-the-cuff medical advice, often have little basis in reality. But our responses to the president’s statements do matter, because we can transform his imaginations into facts on the ground. If employees return to work at meat-processing plants because of the president’s order, then for all practical purposes, he does have the power that he asserts, even though no statute gives him that power and the order drafted by his lawyers doesn’t compel anyone in a factory to do anything. Presidential power is, to a large extent, what all the rest of us make of it. Right now, we are making it out to be far too much.

{snip}

Daniel Hemel
Daniel Hemel is an assistant professor of law at the University of Chicago and a visiting professor at Stanford University law school.
13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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No, Trump didn't order meat-processing plants to reopen (Original Post) mahatmakanejeeves May 2020 OP
Here's his MO though... Ferrets are Cool May 2020 #1
No, Newest Reality May 2020 #3
He is a grifter. His only skill is knowing how to fuck people over and Ferrets are Cool May 2020 #9
Okay, Newest Reality May 2020 #10
I swear I heard that he issued an Executive Order under the Crisis Powers Act?? FarPoint May 2020 #2
Me too. Newest Reality May 2020 #4
Trump executive order didn't stop meat plant closures. Seven more shut in the past week - USA Today progree May 2020 #5
Thanks! Newest Reality May 2020 #11
+1 dalton99a May 2020 #13
Executive Order on Delegating Authority Under the DPA with Respect to Food Supply Chain Resources mahatmakanejeeves May 2020 #6
Moreover, the text you excerpted includes Igel May 2020 #7
Right. Which you could drive a Mack truck through. mahatmakanejeeves May 2020 #8
stupid parsing of words. drray23 May 2020 #12

Ferrets are Cool

(21,110 posts)
1. Here's his MO though...
Wed May 6, 2020, 02:47 PM
May 2020

When people are out of meat because no plants are open, he can say" I told them to open, but they didn't". It's not my fault you can't have your McDouble today.
If he were that smart. Which he is not. But there are others in his administration who are smart and conniving enough to do this.

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
3. No,
Wed May 6, 2020, 03:08 PM
May 2020

That's what I keep suggesting: when it comes to the games he is playing, Trump knows what he is doing and why. It is my understanding that the character he portrays could easily give him the excuse that he is not a professional, cunning, conniving confidence man.

He plays this as he goes and there is a pattern to it. How could an imbecile get this far without overall failure? He is not knowledgeable in many subjects, (if at all) but one thing he knows well is manipulation, (oh and money laundering) and that's his real skill.

Ferrets are Cool

(21,110 posts)
9. He is a grifter. His only skill is knowing how to fuck people over and
Wed May 6, 2020, 08:15 PM
May 2020

believe his lies. If he was smart, he would not have failed at everything he has ever attempted.

You say he hasn't been an overall failure. I disagree vehemently.

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
10. Okay,
Wed May 6, 2020, 08:25 PM
May 2020

I get you. However, a confidence man is more than that. In other words, he would rather people think what you are saying than get to the real point of the game of marks.

Now, why has he been so successful in destroying everything as he goes along, help or no help? I haven't seen him fail at that in anyway so far. Our system has checks and balances and he is still going strong and will be up to the General Election.

To me, Dubya was more of a failure and relied on people to think for him, which was a part of his success.

I understand your point, but my estimation of a moron would be how far they can get, if you see what I mean. For instance, Trump managed to be an informant who ratted on his mobster buddies in business which gave him a legally immunity and anonymity. It also looks like his failed businesses were an aside to money laundering and so the failures we are talking about were a front.

There is a lot more to Trump than is commonly known and I don't think that will be made fully public until, (if?) he is out.

I wish he were a failure. He is succeeding at tearing a country down and even killing its people. Maybe it all depends on how you define success.

Thanks.

FarPoint

(12,444 posts)
2. I swear I heard that he issued an Executive Order under the Crisis Powers Act??
Wed May 6, 2020, 02:48 PM
May 2020

Whatever that Act is called where the president can order certain businesses to function/open during like war or national catastrophe...

Always getting double messages with this country.....

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
4. Me too.
Wed May 6, 2020, 03:10 PM
May 2020

??????

Doesn't that act have any teeth in reality, or is this just about the realization that the potential liability is a problem? And how would the issuing of the Executive Order impact that?

progree

(10,918 posts)
5. Trump executive order didn't stop meat plant closures. Seven more shut in the past week - USA Today
Wed May 6, 2020, 03:17 PM
May 2020
Trump executive order didn't stop meat plant closures. Seven more shut in the past week, USA Today, 5/6/20

... At least seven coronavirus-affected meatpacking plants shut their doors since the April 28th executive order. That’s in line with the average of eight weekly plant closures in the month leading up to the order.

... At least two of the seven plants that closed since the executive order have reopened.

More such closures are anticipated. Tyson Foods, one of the largest U.S. meatpacking companies, announced Monday it expected to shut additional plants because of low staffing and “choices we make to ensure operational safety,” according to its quarterly earnings report.

Tyson also owns four of the seven plants that closed in the week since Trump signed the executive order. They’re located in Nebraska, Kentucky and Maine.

The company said the closures were intended to keep workers safe.

... The White House declined to comment on the continued closings.

More: https://news.yahoo.com/trump-executive-order-didnt-stop-222717505.html

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,613 posts)
6. Executive Order on Delegating Authority Under the DPA with Respect to Food Supply Chain Resources
Wed May 6, 2020, 03:22 PM
May 2020

Do a control-F on the document. The character string "open" appears exactly zero times.

EXECUTIVE ORDERS

Executive Order on Delegating Authority Under the DPA with Respect to Food Supply Chain Resources During the National Emergency Caused by the Outbreak of COVID-19

LAND & AGRICULTURE

Issued on: April 28, 2020

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the Defense Production Act of 1950, as amended (50 U.S.C. 4501 et seq.) (the “Act”), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, it is hereby ordered as follows:

{snip}

Accordingly, I find that meat and poultry in the food supply chain meet the criteria specified in section 101(b) of the Act (50 U.S.C. 4511(b)). Under the delegation of authority provided in this order, the Secretary of Agriculture shall take all appropriate action under that section to ensure that meat and poultry processors continue operations consistent with the guidance for their operations jointly issued by the CDC and OSHA. Under the delegation of authority provided in this order, the Secretary of Agriculture may identify additional specific food supply chain resources that meet the criteria of section 101(b).

{snip}

Igel

(35,359 posts)
7. Moreover, the text you excerpted includes
Wed May 6, 2020, 07:24 PM
May 2020

"consistence with the guidance for their operations jointly issued by the CDC and OSHA."

What action the Secretary of Agriculture takes is a different story--could be cajoling, could be legal, could just be sending a strongly worded letter.


The point is clear: Unless you look at the original source and stop and think instead of just accepting pabulum spooned into your brain, you only think you know what's going on. Even *that* is risky, but if you require that everybody digest your news for you before plopping it in front of you for consumption ... Well, you know what digested food is usually called.


At least the thread about indicting Trump on numerous counts of a statute involving sore horses self-deleted.

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,613 posts)
8. Right. Which you could drive a Mack truck through.
Wed May 6, 2020, 07:28 PM
May 2020

Here's that guidance:

Meat and Poultry Processing Workers and Employers

Interim Guidance from CDC and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA)

I looked at that other thread for a few seconds, shook my head, and backed out.

drray23

(7,637 posts)
12. stupid parsing of words.
Thu May 7, 2020, 12:35 AM
May 2020

It delegated to entities like the secretary of agriculture. Not surprisingly Perdue just issued an order exorting the meat plants to reopen and threatening them with retaliatory action if they dont.

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