NORTH DAKOTA FARMER SAYS IF TRUMP 'DOESN'T LOSE 100 PERCENT' OF HIS FARM-BELT SUPPORT OVER

[elleng]

TRADE WAR 'PEOPLE ARE KIND OF CRAZY'

'Donald Trump's trade war with China is hemorrhaging support from his rural base which helped put him into the White House, farmers hit financially by his policies have warned.

Last week, the National Farmers Union said that Trump was making things "worse, not better" by escalating tariffs on China, adding in a statement that, ?instead of looking to solve existing problems in our agricultural sector, this administration has just created new ones."

Bob Kuylen, a wheat and sunflower farmer from South Heart, North Dakota, says he has endured a tough time since Trump came into office, including losses of up to $400,000.

He told CNN that he had sold a lot of grain last year at harvest for $5.70 a bushel, which was already at a loss, but since then the market has slumped to only $3.96 a bushel locally.

A farmer of 40 years' standing, Kuylen did not vote for Trump in the last election. He said that those in the farm-belt who did back Trump in 2016 would be foolish to do so in 2020.

"If he doesn't lose 100 percent of it from the farm belt then people are kind of crazy because this is not going well for farmers at all," he told CNN host Don Lemon (via Grabien.)

"I mean, some of them are trying to be faithful, they made that decision and voted for him but I would have to say in the back of their minds they are just not very happy right now."

He criticized Trump for "taking all our markets away from us" and that "it's kind of like telling all of America to throw away all it its 401(k) [plans]."

Even if normal trade resumed tomorrow, "it is going to take a lot of years to get our markets back," he added.'>>>

https://www.newsweek.com/north-dakota-trump-china-trade-war-1456253?

[MontanaMama]

1. Ummm.

We can definitely verify that people "are kind of crazy". I hope and pray that farmers and ranchers come to their senses.

[elleng]

3. It appears that some ARE coming to their senses.

Will be interesting to see how far 'sensible' goes.

[pangaia]

7. Don't know about coming to their senses--

they're just getting hit in the pocket book.

THEY are getting hit.. don;t give a shit about anybody else//

[Grins]

19. Yup! Only when it hits them personally...

...do they give a damn.

[kozar]

23. I grew up with these people,

No,, they dont only care when it hits them,, they do this for love of land and country. Damn,,this is first time they had a president who openly fucked them over. I grew up in ND spent 20+ years on grandfathers farm before he died.. just throw your crap out here.. I wont tolerate, my family being soiled,, unless you have been there.
Koz

[Skittles]

40. people who vote republican

do tend to only think of themselves; only when it affects them do they suddenly "care"

[kozar]

47. and where did you grow up and toss hay bales in

North Dakota,, in the last 30 years as I have to make such a shallow and snide post? Im just asking.

Koz

[Doodley]

54. A vote for Republicans is a vote to take away healthcare from millions of people.

It is a vote to devastate the land, the water and the climate by dismantling regulation. It is a vote to remove safety nets from millions of children. It is a vote to single out and demonize minority groups. Yes, Republicans do vote selfishly. It isn't snide to say so. It is a basic fact.

[kozar]

56. So how did you even

answer my question? just typed some generic crap to make you feel good? I grew up there.DAMMIT,, can you be bothered to read? ND is changing,,it takes time. I really don't need to hear about regulations,voting,selfishness. I would respect a post that at least acknowledges the post you are replying to. great job with words! zero for context to reply

Koz

[Doodley]

62. Thanks. I appreciate it.

[kozar]

64. appreciate what?

[Skittles]

59. my American relatives are Minnesota farmers

FYI

I grew up as a GI brat and moved all the time, including a stint on a Minnesota farm

[kozar]

63. then Skitts

you are obviously an expert on my OP

[dawg day]

79. So why do you think they vote for him?

I'm always puzzled at that. I'm from "coal country," and I puzzle that the miners -- who are usually pretty sharp about who's on what side-- remain so loyal to a man who would take away so much that they need so much.

Also, I puzzle over how hardworking Americans (that's most Americans, probably, but especially so in farming) can go for someone who so clearly doesn't value hard work, at least not over inherited wealth.

Any wisdom? Maybe this is one of those unanswerable questions, like "Why do bad things happen to good people?"

[kozar]

85. as this post is dated recently,, I will respond

coal miners were duped by the a hole,,wheat and agri is ND's coal,, $$$ anbd tech are Calif's coal..every part of the country has some sector that believed Trumps lies..

[calimary]

67. Pretty typical of the GOP mindset.

Only when they personally get hit hard does it occur to them that other people are already suffering from that.

I guess it takes having to taste it themselves to shake them awake.

Maybe.

[aggiesal]

20. Yup, they'll vote against Dolt45 ...

but will vote for anyone with an (R) next to their name for
all down ballot candidates.

[ck4829]

74. Hopefully so

[BlueMTexpat]

18. Me too!

It is interesting because I have several cousins who are/were farmers in MT.

Many share my politics; some are wildly libertarian (LOVE Ron Paul!). Ugh!

The libertarians will likely support Trump because they "hate" Democrats and have been brainwashed by Faux Noise and RW talk radio, not because of any logic on their part.

[kozar]

24. Montana,,is

not even close to ND politics,, as much as you would like to believe.


Koz

[BlueMTexpat]

30. Where did I say that it was?

I was born and raised and partly educated in Montana (did graduate work elsewhere). I taught school there for nine years. Admittedly, that was a LONG time ago. But I still have family and own property there.

I was speaking from my own experience in MT and responding to MontanaMama. The only things that I have in common with ND are that my father was born there and my husband performed his military service at a tiny radar station there ... that no longer exists.

[kozar]

34. you made a point about cousins in MT,to a story about a ND farmer

pretty straight forward inference there. I LIVED and grew up there.. why post on an ND story like you know?

I take offense to your answer to me

Koz

[BlueMTexpat]

41. I take offense at

your answer to me.

I was NOT responding to the OP, but to another poster.

[kozar]

51. so why not Du mail

them to clear up confusion?? h just post in open form and everyone on
DU should know what you are thinking,,,got ya

[kozar]

45. I talk to them weekly

what kind of verification do you need to prove I post truth,,my dd 214,,want copies of text? My point was simple,,,I grew up in ND,,you posted about Montana,, and still comfortable questioning what I grew up with regarding this article? Collor me getting pissed and keyboard warriors, why even post this MontanaMama? maybe I read your post wrong,,,,wth do you need to verify form ND? Im angry now about this post because I grew up there,,spent 20 yrs on Granpas farm, and replies here seem to be,"Im inMT,, im in ID,," my God I lived this and talk to people in ND weekly..sorry if I mis read ,,but DAMN people! Can we please only respond to what We know for certain?

Koz

[ck4829]

75. Yep

[TheCowsCameHome]

2. Farmers love me. Everybody loves me. I love me.

[durablend]

4. Mr. Kuylen needs some re-educating apparently

The correct response, of course is "I'll live in a cardboard box if it means those Murica hating libs get pwnd!"

[keithbvadu2]

31. Drives libruls crazy

Drives libruls crazy

[ck4829]

73. *Sigh*... it's true though

[CaptYossarian]

5. He said we'd all be sick of winning.

[rainin]

6. But emails!

They are getting what they deserve. They knew he was unfit, but thought they'd come out ahead. That's why I believe an attack on others is an attack on all of us. I think 'it could be me.'

[hibbing]

8. people *are* kind of crazy

The majority of farmers will not vote for a Democrat.


Peace

[ffr]

9. But you voted for him over Hillary because you didn't like her, remember?

DEAL WITH IT!

[elleng]

10. They're CHANGING their minds,

and we should take advantage of it,

NO LAUGHING MATTER.

[sandensea]

11. A lot of people are, or seem to be.

Not so much crazy - as brainwashed.

The struggle is real.

[FiveGoodMen]

21. What's the difference between crazy and brainwashed?

Either way, you don't know what's really going on and your actions can't be trusted.

[sandensea]

38. Well said.

The human condition, alas.

[Wounded Bear]

12. Yabbut, is the Trump hate overcoming their Dem hate...

Many of them voted Trump because they hated Hillary and Dems.

Has that changed?

Hmmm, we'll see, I guess.

[HiloHatti]

13. The fires in Brazil are a Direct Effect of Trump's Stupidity

They were trying to clear Amazon rain forest land in order to plant soy beans to sell to the Chinese and the fires got out of control. So Trump is responsible for the coming collapse of the World’s climate and its economy. That’s quite a two-fer for the Country’s most stable genius.

[Joe Nation]

14. Corporate Farming will win in the end.

Family farming on the other hand......

[Ferrets are Cool]

15. They are ONLY criticizing tRump. They will STILL vote fucking republican.

This has not fixed their "stupid".

[Politicub]

16. Trump is incapable of feeling normal human emotions. He doesn't care if every

farmer in the midwest goes bust. He could care less how this will affect the long-term food supply of the country.

Here's why: Trump is a simpleton. He's single minded. Once you figure out his goal, it's easy to see through his lies and obfuscations. He will say anything in service of his goal or idea, and he shoots from the hip. He lies. He cheats. Just like he runs his businesses.

He's trying to cripple the Chinese economy. He is incapable of understanding how his trade war affects global markets. He sees tariffs as his strongest weapon; diplomacy be damned. The Chinese are outsmarting him, though. There are more places in the world from which to import food.

Trump is sowing the seeds of his own undoing. He doesn't realize it, of course. He believes since he thought of it, it must be true and the greatest of strategies. He has already claimed that he is king of the jews (or something like that... I don't care to look it up).

He confuses tactics with strategy. He conflates tactical moves with goals. If he wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth, he would be a modern-day Don Laprie, conning the unsuspecting out of their savings. He already was doing that with his disgraced real estate academy.

Maybe the farmers will decide that "sticking it to the libs" isn't worth keeping food out of the mouths of themselves and their families. I'll believe it when I see it.

[airmid]

17. If I am reading this right, this farmer DID NOT vote for Trump. We farm and we did not

vote for Trump. More than half of my neighbors did not vote for Trump. But somehow, ALL farmers voted for Trump. Wide brush folks. You are driving these people away from helping the Party. They will likely continue to vote Dem but it's unlikely the will be phone banking and canvassing with people who've decided they are Trump cultists. I know I will likely get chewed out for this but like I said, assumptions are killing enthusiasm.

[Arthur_Frain]

46. Nope, I saw that too.

So basically this guy is us. Opining how stupid people can be to vote for trump.

Dems have bigger problems than broad brushing trump supporters though, who are NEVER going to have a “come to jeebus moment”, no matter how hard anyone wants them to. Dems are way too busy backstabbing one another in the primary run on reparations, verbal gaffes about working with segregationists, etcetera, you know, really important shit. That’s why there is never any enthusiasm about the democratic candidate.

[questionseverything]

61. just so you know, i feel terrible about what is happening to the family farmer

and I think people who think they should suffer for previous votes do not realize if the family farm is taken ovr by corporate ag we are all screwed


people have no idea how hard farmers work or how much money it takes to run a farm, especially when it would be so easy to turn the farm into a subdivision

[kozar]

22. I grew up in ND

and spent many years of my youth as a "farmhand" on Grandpa's land. I keep watching now for a ND farmer story and trends. I grew up there,, ND is a slow moving political state compared to all other states. Even Montana. This story makes me feel good,, I have talked to relatives,friends who I grew up with and saw this trend. Finally, it is a NEWSWEEK interview, and now I am comfortable that the folks I grew up with,,are thinking clearly.

Koz

[elleng]

25. THANK YOU, Koz!

[PandoraAwakened]

26. But, as the article notes, this guy didn't vote for the Creature.

What I find most telling in this article is the man's description of fellow farmers who did and still do support the Creature: They're "trying to be faithful."

Note the elevation to religious connotations. Sane people understand this as nothing more than typical cult worship masked as religion. Unfortunately, very few people caught up in cult worship are ever able to escape it of their own accord.

I think this is the main element not discussed regarding what has happened to a large swath of America's farmers. They joined a cult, one that is upheld in their own churches every Sunday and on talk radio that they listen to every day as they work. There's no way out, even if it comes to their own destruction.

I know many here will say that's ridiculous because it's always about the money and once they start going broke, they'll change their tune. No, sorry, that's not at all how cultism works.

My relatives in Indiana are farmers. At this point, two have filed bankruptcy and three more are expected to within six months to a year. I have spoken to each of them, as well as to their families. Every last one of them (except for some of the kids who are in their twenties) are going to vote for the Creature again.

If you aren't actually up close and talking to the people caught up in this lunacy, you can never understand it for the cult that it is...and you will always be wrong in assessing the probable outcome.

[kozar]

29. Pandora,,

you are correct as of 2016,farmers are a cult. Read my previous posts,, I grew up in ND and spent 20+ years on Grandpas farm working. Indiana is your family and I respect your life,,ND is my life, and I know things are changing. The family,friends ,neighbors I talk to weekly aren't even trying to be faithful. They are just done with this "prez" you can read,, I'll believe who I speak too,,which makes this article important to me. Believe what you will,, yep,they all voted "r" when I grew up,, now I speak often with same people who say,,, " I'm Done"


Koz

[PandoraAwakened]

39. Hopefully "I'm done" translates into something

actionable. Kozar, have you asked your relatives what this means in terms of voting? Will they continue to vote R for their state legislature, governor, senators, congressmen? Or, another possibility, will they just sit this one out (which is also perfectly okay)?

What would really be great is if you could convince some of your farming family to give interviews to a major media outlet where they say, "I voted for Trump, but I'm not making that mistake again. Here's why..."

Then I would have something tangible to point to with my own family. One of the few ways a cult member breaks from the cult is in being exposed to others who have escaped. So far, I haven't been able to scrounge up many examples for them.

[kozar]

48. I thought I was clear

by posting that they will NOT!I would convince them to give interviews,, but you would not ask that question if you truly know ND people,, they tend to be shy and hard to change,, interviews? hahah why am I so excited about this? but you are comfortable to type to me , and tell me what to convince the people I grew up around what to do? so I guess from your keyboard,, you know these people better than me?

Have a good day Pandora

[PandoraAwakened]

58. Sorry you misunderstood

I wasn't "telling" you to do anything. I was asking you if you were in a position to help out a fellow Dem who has family deeply embroiled in a cult.

So, okay, you're in no position to help. I get it. No need to yell at someone who's asking for help. Maybe leave that to the Rethuglicans who have been raised from birth to have that as a default, knee-jerk reaction to pretty much any idea they didn't think of themselves, even to the point of kicking people who are clearly their allies.

Maybe take a deep breath, sit back, and reassess your perception that just because somebody adds something to someone else's conversation, it's really not all about you. Come on, I'm sure you would agree that "me-Me-ME" is one of the Creature's many faults that we all resist and rally against daily (make that hourly).

Seriously friend, chill out a little. Learn to recognize an ally. And stop kicking people seeking help.

[pangaia]

71. He seems to kick, yell at and piss on just about everybody here.

It's a shame...

[MyOwnPeace]

77. It does seem to be a pattern, doesn't it........

almost "cult-like!"

[dawg day]

80. "Faithful and loyal" those are terms we see with Trumpers that shouldn't be used for a president.

I don't get how this execrable man attracts such a high level of worship. What do they see when they look at him and talk about him as if he were a god?

I remind myself of the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, who was an old man with a long beard who NEVER SPOKE, and yet thousands of affluent professionals here worshipped him, gave him all their money and work, and some even tried to kill for him. Why? As you say, with cultists, the worship isn't rational.

[keithbvadu2]

27. Farmers enjoy fine dining on socialism

[kozar]

32. farm bailouts didn't

get close to the farmers,, Go ahead ask me,read my previous posts and make your decision and post with a damn cartoon. The Farmers are YOUR FOOD TOO


Koz

[keithbvadu2]

33. How many are going to ACTUALLY vote against Trump?

How many are going to ACTUALLY vote against Trump?

[kozar]

49. from the people I talk to weekly ,,

Many

[keithbvadu2]

60. Yep! No doubt! Trump has some expressions that sound similar to: Some people say. Many say.

Yep! No doubt! Trump has some expressions that sound similar to:

Some people say.

Many say.

[ToxMarz]

28. Their whole problem now lies in the fact they can never say

[NoMoreRepugs]

35. Loyalty stops when it hits your livelihood HARD. Even if the "Tariff War" stops by

the end of the year the Chinese market isn't going to re-open quickly enough to save King tRumpy from facing a
whole lot of criticism from the farm constituency. Every negative helps a bit to overcome what I expect to be epic level cheating, gerrymandering and Russian interference. Our candidate needs at a minimum a 10+% plurality in the actual voting to have a chance IMO.

[liberalhistorian]

36. I live in rural South Dakota and I

wish my own state's farmers and ranchers felt this way. Unfortunately, nothing seems to shake them out of their cultish stupor and a lot of it is due to their guns Uber alles and white supremacist Christian nationalism.

No matter what happens, they find a way to twist things to blame Democrats even though they barely exist here anymore, and the RW crazies have an iron grip on the entire state. I don't know how much longer I can take this constant stupidity.

[kozar]

50. did you grow up in SD?

work on a family's farm,, or just wishing,hoping and making a post? This subject ticked me off,,it is about ND,, I spent 20 years on my
Grandpa's farm,,,but so many posts from people who are "close to "ND? sorry for my anger I talk to my old neighbors and friends weekly, because I lived there,,,trust me they are turning on Trump. But if you just wanna make off topic posts.. go Ahead,,I know what lived and the people I talk to.

KOZ

[elleng]

52. THANKS for your 'up close' views, Koz.

[liberalhistorian]

68. Well excuse me for not

falling down on bended knees and prostrating myself before the almighty farmer! Sheesh. I was speaking of my experiences with rural living, just as you were and we're both allowed to do so.
ND may be turning on Agent Orange, but SD sure as hell isn't, especially not with our new Trump-worshipping theocratic fascist governor who has a family farm and a pulse on SD farmers.

[NickB79]

37. Here in MN, the Democratic party still uses the acronym DFL

Democrat-Farm-Labor.

It used to be that farmers were reliable Democrats around here. Now they've all gone insane.

[BigDemVoter]

42. I don't feel one goddamned bit bad. Let them lose their fucking farms.

They were warned, and they voted their racist hearts. Fuck them.

[elleng]

43. and let us lose our country,

let those who made a mistake perish, I guess.

[Dan]

44. Thoughts and prayers for the Trump Farm voters

but, common sense tells me - that the China market is gone forever.

[saidsimplesimon]

53. An awaking?

"It's going to take a lot of years..." My biological clock is ticking. Selfish person that I am, rumpie and friends is not what I dreamed of for a political awakening and redirection in my youth.

[kozar]

55. you know what?

I have answered way too many posts about a North Dakota story,,that everyone feels they know enough to make snide comments. Here is my last post,, I grew up in ND,,worked on my grandfather's farm for years,,met,knew,and fell "in love with more than a few of the neighbors. I talk to about 75% of those people weekly,,trust me,,if an ND citizen makes a statement to anything friccking national,,its a big deal. Believe me or not,,I don't care,,but I will respond to all snide comments that essentially diss my Grandfather and my childhood and formative years. either have facts ,,or step away,,I'm sorry,,you are dissing on MY home and family now

Koz

[ZZenith]

65. Your indignation is all out of proportion to the responses you've received.

You don’t seem to recognize how righteously angry a lot of people are towards the simpletons who allowed themselves to be fooled by Trump. If that includes some of your relatives, well, we can hope they are coming to their senses but it’s going to be an age before they outlive the shaming they deserve.

[hatrack]

84. Your last post?

?itemid=5678266

[Bleacher Creature]

57. They were fine with his racism and white nationalism.

And separating kids from their parents is a-ok. But when his stupidity threatens their livelihood, that's a different story.

[SharonAnn]

69. And they were fine with his misogyny, his payoffs to mistresses, his multiple marriages.

His constant rating of women on a scale of 1-10 in looks rather than their accomplishments.

They were OK with all that.

[MyOwnPeace]

78. I keep thinking of that prison worker

from Florida who, when interviewed about IQ45, said this:

“I voted for him, and he’s the one who’s doing this,” Minton told Mazzei. “I thought he was going to do good things. He’s not hurting the people he needs to be hurting.”

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/8/18173678/trump-shutdown-voter-florida

There you go.

THAT is what we are fighting.

We won't and can't change them. We MUST GET OUT THE VOTE!!!!

[Beartracks]

66. Hey, farmers: Don't forget that the Republican party supports Trump in all this.

Trump doesn't do all this ignorant, dangerous stuff in a vacuum. The GOP and Republican members of Congress are covering for him, making excuses for him, and letting him get away with it because they don't care what his crazy policies do to YOU, they only care about corporate tax breaks and staying in power. You can tell this is true by listening to right-wing radio, where Trump is worshipped and Democrats are boogeymen, because they want you to believe he's on your side and not to question him or the Republican party. Keep paying attention, and if you're having doubts now, that's good. Question everything.

==========

[CrispyQ]

70. The best we can hope for, from those who voted for him, is that they leave their choice for

president blank. These are the good ole boys who wore tee-shirts that read, "I'd rather be a Russian than a Democrat." I don't see them voting dem.

[ck4829]

72. K&R

[dewsgirl]

76. ......

If I were a farmer in their situation, this would be a deal breaker. People are crazy.

[lark]

81. Facts are there are some damn crazy self hurting farmers.

Saw an article where a farmer in some deep red state (it was either AL or KS) said he'd have to file bankruptcy if drumpf tarriffs continued and said he'd still vote for him due to rw judges and abortion and keeping them Mexicans out. Fucking idiots and racists is all they are and they deserve whatever losses they get. Hope their kids are smarter though, we need smarter, not dumber food producers. Of course, these asshole rw dads will probably lose their land and the kids get nothing. Thanks Repugs and drumpf!

[kacekwl]

82. While sitting around the seed & feed no one wants

to be the one to say it. Cause then they will be branded as a liberal commie by the guys wearing MAGA hats.

[LakeArenal]

83. Trump support by anyone is more than"kinda crazy".

Long before tariffs.

[kozar]

86. I replied to this original post in Aug

Merry Christmas day all,, now I am seeing a huge amount of responses dated as early as 2 days ago. And I still feel the people who responded to me in Aug,, that asked trashed me. Im just wondering why now are you all paying attention to this thread.. Prolly because you read the new story a couple days ago about farmers turning against Trump,,makes me go hmmmm